Gunboards Forums banner
1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I came across this thread in the Axis History Forum which brought into the fore the dispute on whether Mikhail Kalashnikov really designed the AK-47. A poster named Baltas seems to be adamant that ol' Mikey T. really didn't design it and that saying he did was just propaganda. Does anyone know anything concrete about the designing and the origins of the AK?

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=115286&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
 

·
Diamond Bullet Member/Moderator
Joined
·
54,378 Posts
I'm sure he wasn't the only one who worked on it (Russians love teamwork) but I think it was his idea and he came up with the basic layout. These stories pop up all the time but they never have any proof and until they do I'll go with the standard story.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
569 Posts
of course he did, Mr K then went on to head up the USSRs most prolific small arms bureau and design a whole range of small arms all based on the basic Kalashnikov action - a bit difficult to do if you have no inate ability

However, like all things, the AK was not designed in a vacumn and lots of other weapons would have had an influence on his thinking and parts of the ultimate design - a very good example would be the folding stock which is a straight forward copy of the MP 40 underfolder.

Another issue often missed is the tactical context of a weapons design, the AK is a weapon designed to be used at relatively short ranges, at full auto, in line with soviet offensive doctrine.

Clinton Ezells book "The AK47 story" has the whole design story laid out very clearly and is well worth the read

regards

Richard
 

·
Silver Bullet member
Joined
·
36,341 Posts
That thread pretty well debunks the idea that Germans designed the AK47 or that it was a copy of any german design. The Sturmgewehr was just one of the "build em without skilled machinists" designs of the WWII period, the ultimate being the US M3 SMG, the "Grease Gun".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,374 Posts
"ultimate being the US M3 SMG, the "Grease Gun"

Nooooo, the "ultimate" was the 9 dollar British Mark III STEN gun.
The gun with a magazine, magazine loader tool packed in a cardboard box ready to be issued or air dropped cost Nine Dollars to make in Canada.

Kalashnikov did indeed design the AK-47.
He was adamant that he didn't get some of the ideas for it from the German MP-44, but it's hard to see him not examining the German design.

The Russians do love "team work" but the main designer was Kalashnikov who did early work on a SMG design while still assigned as a tanker, and recouping in a hospital.

Eugene Stoner designed the AR-15 and an entire range of weapons, but he too had a team around him.
This doesn't mean he was just a figurehead, this is just the way engineering projects work.
You usually have one genius driving it, and a bunch of helpers offering good advice and features.

I have a brother-in-law who designed the air conditioning system for the old Skylab.
There were three men who are credited with the design, but my in-law was the chief designer with a couple of other men to "hold his coat" and help out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
"ultimate being the US M3 SMG, the "Grease Gun"

Nooooo, the "ultimate" was the 9 dollar British Mark III STEN gun.
The gun with a magazine, magazine loader tool packed in a cardboard box ready to be issued or air dropped cost Nine Dollars to make in Canada.

Kalashnikov did indeed design the AK-47.
He was adamant that he didn't get some of the ideas for it from the German MP-44, but it's hard to see him not examining the German design.

The Russians do love "team work" but the main designer was Kalashnikov who did early work on a SMG design while still assigned as a tanker, and recouping in a hospital.

Eugene Stoner designed the AR-15 and an entire range of weapons, but he too had a team around him.
This doesn't mean he was just a figurehead, this is just the way engineering projects work.
You usually have one genius driving it, and a bunch of helpers offering good advice and features.

I have a brother-in-law who designed the air conditioning system for the old Skylab.
There were three men who are credited with the design, but my in-law was the chief designer with a couple of other men to "hold his coat" and help out.
What about the notion that Mikhail's design was too primitive to be adopted, or not good enough? Is that just a urban legend? I'm not saying I believe it, but I would like to know the proven facts.
 

·
Diamond Bullet Member/Moderator
Joined
·
54,378 Posts
What proven facts? I think the burden on those who say he didn't develop it since the Russians say he did and I believe they should know....

I'm not sure what you're going for but just list your facts that say Kalashnikov didn't design the AK and we can go from there. But remember you got the Russians, Kalashnikov and quite a lot of other people around at the time that all say he did... :)
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,843 Posts
What about the notion that Mikhail's design was too primitive to be adopted, or not good enough? Is that just a urban legend? I'm not saying I believe it, but I would like to know the proven facts.
He competed against Tokarev (SVT-38/40, TT-33), he competed against Simonov (AVS-36, SKS-45) and two or three other teams. Tokarev was probably a favorite in the competition, Simonov had some political problems, but it is the Kalashnikov's rifle that has been issued for the past sixty years. For a number of reasons Soviet government was willing to wait for him to make his prototypes into fully developed production item.



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
 

·
Platinum Bullet member
Joined
·
20,587 Posts
You guys are all way off base on your well-meaning, but naively-reasoned replies to the question.

While the Commie Russkie propagandists all seek to rewrite history, even today, the fact remains, that a more intelligent and more sophisticated, and well-renowned designer was solely responsible for single-handedly designing, building the prototypes, and ultimately bringing the AK design to perfection.

That world hero and award winning genius was none other than:


(scroll down)




























































Al Gore, Nobel Prize-winning 'genius', who also singlehandedly invented the Internet.

After reverently reading his name, you may rise from your kneeling position, and discontinue averting your eyes:rolleyes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,374 Posts
"What about the notion that Mikhail's design was too primitive to be adopted, or not good enough? Is that just a urban legend? I'm not saying I believe it, but I would like to know the proven facts."

If you're asking about Kalashnikov's early SMG design, it was just too underdeveloped, and not as manufacture-ready as the design by a more experience engineer was.
However, the Soviets saw Kalashnikov's potential, and put him to work in an arsenal developing new designs, the first successful of which was the AK-47.

The fact that Kalashnikov was the chief designer and driving force behind the AK-47 is a matter of historical fact.
Serious people have intimated that he drew some inspiration from the German MP-44, (which he vigorously denies), but NO serious person has ever made a claim that he didn't design the AK-47.

Did he do ALL the design, alone, isolated? Probably not, but at the time the Russians had a large number of people doing weapons design, and many were left alone to see what they might come up with.
(As alone as it was possible for a designer to be in Stalin's super paranoid Russia).
The Russians had problems in their system of established authority figures enforcing their dogma on new people, to the detriment of Soviet efforts to catch up to the 20th Century.
For that reason, after the early 1940's, the Soviets began to allow at least some insulation between promising new people and the established experts.

Kalashnikov designed the AK-47. Anyone claiming otherwise is grasping at conspiracy theory's.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top