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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I got this SVT mount from Sweden in early 2007. Paid the price of a "real thing" for it. When I posted some pics to this forum the guys here told me I had done well and that I'd have an original mount. However, last summer I was emailed by Molosky who had bought a similar mount in Russia and believed we both may have just two nicely made fakes. He also showed a few pics of original mounts and their markings & machining marks, especially on the inside the "fork", differed from my mount quite a bit.

Here are some pictures of the mount I got. The other one is a Finn captured (& butchered) and definitely original SVT mount I thought to use as a reference here. Opinions will be appreciated. I hope Molosky will weigh in and perhaps post the pictures he has.

toka_1.jpg

toka_2.jpg

Is the first letter of the prefix just badly stamped П or Latin L upside down?

toka_3.jpg

Does one of the marks look like Imperial Tula hammer to you?

toka_4.jpg

Investment casting marks (?) prevail.

toka_8.jpg

In the middle of the cross pin hole there are two extra notches pointing up and down. Repro mounts I've seen appear to have this feature.

toka_9.jpg

This retaining screw isn't staked.

toka_7.jpg

toka_6.jpg

Cross pin is missing all the inspection marks.


toka_5.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Here are the rest of the pics.

toka_10.jpg

toka_11.jpg

No signs of investment casting. All machined construction.

toka_12.jpg

No extra notches in the cross pin hole.

toka_13.jpg

The head of the screw is staked.

toka_14.jpg

toka_16.jpg

Inspection marks on the cross pin.

toka_15.jpg

toka_17.jpg

Real mount isn't as wide as this possible fake.

toka_18.jpg

Real pin left, fake (?) right. The real one is much bigger.


toka_19.jpg

toka_20.jpg
 

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I do not know these mounts well enough to comment on that.But from my experience with bogus German ww2 helmets.I can say it looks artificially aged with chemical produced rust.Generally the rust from this process looks more redish in color.
 

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Antti, All of mine that are apparently original have identical markings. Only the rifle serial numbers are different.

Those casting markings and the stampings are definitely suspect. I do not know if I had an original then, and hope I did not post that your was OK. It is a much better mount than the repros we see in the US.

Hope the pics help.

Looks like if yours and Molosky's are fake, I got three just like them. None of my retaining pins are proofed. Maybe Vic has some known originals.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
I do not know these mounts well enough to comment on that.But from my experience with bogus German ww2 helmets.I can say it looks artificially aged with chemical produced rust.Generally the rust from this process looks more redish in color.
I agree. It's actually strange that there are rust all over but no signs of pitting anywhere. And, after owning real Tula made 91/30 PE top & side mounts, bases and PU mounts for years, I have to admit I don't like the font of the serial number. It's a bit too modern IMHO. The number on the broken mount has somewhat similar font but not the same.
 

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It ain't looking good Antti. If these were faked it was quite a while back. I got one of mine more than 5 years ago. They do not look like the reproductions readily available here in the US.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Mike, thanks for your input. Did you buy one of yours from willyp? There's one with the same serial number displayed on Imageevent. I agree that if these were made from repros it would have required a lot of work. But, they probably were. I'm interested to hear what Vic has to say. Some real mounts were possibly exported with Finn captured SVT-40s and SVT-38 a long before repros became available...

A stupid question but have you ever tried to tap the "fork" portion of the mount to table etc. to hear what it sounds like? The broken mount I have resonates like a tuning fork but the suspect sounds really dull. This tells something about the metal, yes?
 

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Antti,
I agree on your aassesment of the quality of steel to harmonics relationship. Any steel used in weapons making is most usually excellent quality and should give that nice ringing sound no matter the piece. Anything that doesn't should be suspect if it can't be proven authentic by other means.
 

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Hi guys! The first mount is a good fake. The same in the post # 4.
Here are originals:
 

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Whew, fortunately I bought all three of mine from the Finnbear back in the 1980's !!! Seems like once the price gets to a certian point, look out here come the fakers! Skid
 

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Sticky sounds like a good idea. One for top and side mounts would be a good idea too, except it could help the fakers get better. There were several collectors fooled by these things. They are definitely better than the commonly seen reproduction mounts. I have 2 of those.

Do we know who made them and when? I will have to dig to figure it out but I am guessing I got my first one 7 or 8 years ago.
 

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Guys, I wouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions here. Are you sure you're not just looking at two different manufacturers or two different time periods of manufacture? Also, I would think that some of the proof marks and staking wouldn't be applied until after they were fitted to a rifle and accepted.

I sold an original scope and mount here about 2 years ago that was bought from Finnbear in the 1990's. It had many of the same features that are labeled "fake" here. In fact, most of the mounts pictured on the web came from that batch that Finnbear found so I am definitely not ready to label those anything less than original.

About 10 or 12 years ago I had noticed that many of the mounts that turned up for sale or in pictures on the web, were from two series of serial number prefixes. In fact, several were close in serial number, less than a hundred apart. I posted that observation here on the forum and and others recalled the story of Finnbear finding a box of SVT mounts. That seemed to account for the close serial numbers and similar features for many of the mounts.

Maybe others can add more.

Cass
 

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Whew, fortunately I bought all three of mine from the Finnbear back in the 1980's !!! Seems like once the price gets to a certian point, look out here come the fakers! Skid
Skid, You may want to take a look at your mount. All 3 I pictured came from finnbear and I know of at least 4 more just like them that all came from finnbear. These are the mounts in question as best as I can find out with my research. If fake, they have fooled a bunch of folks.

Apparently Tula had two locations for SVT related production in late 1941. Seems possible that two factories were making mounts and they may not be identical.??
 

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I believe we may be thinking of Springfield Armory or Winchester or Detroit. Remember these were made in the old Soviet Union of the '30's and '40's very little quality control on items like this and as the war progressed even worse. I traveled with the Finnbear, and I can not believe he would have a batch of SVT mounts made up when the rifles were almost impossible to find anf the scopes were even more rare. Unless he had a crystal ball. I bought mine in the late '80's to maybe '91 or '92 at the Great Western in Pomona. If he knowingly sold us fakes, then I am a very poor judge of character. If an when I sell mine, I will advertise where they came form and that I believe them to be real. I have been to the Museums in 9 of the Soviet Hero Cities and Hero Brest Fortress and have studied any sniper I could get a look at, there are many variations, and the PU series is a whole different program. Just my two cents. Vic ?? Skid
 

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Im in the same boat. If they are fakes then they are the best fakes I have ever seen. Tula sniper production was interrupted in late 41 and early 42 due to the seige and the production line was moved by train to the Urals at the Mednagorsk facility. I'm just fishing here but is it possible the mount production was shifted to a different facility as well? If not I'm in the same boat as the others with several of these on rifles.
 

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I believe we may be thinking of Springfield Armory or Winchester or Detroit. Remember these were made in the old Soviet Union of the '30's and '40's very little quality control on items like this and as the war progressed even worse. I traveled with the Finnbear, and I can not believe he would have a batch of SVT mounts made up when the rifles were almost impossible to find anf the scopes were even more rare. Unless he had a crystal ball. I bought mine in the late '80's to maybe '91 or '92 at the Great Western in Pomona. If he knowingly sold us fakes, then I am a very poor judge of character. If an when I sell mine, I will advertise where they came form and that I believe them to be real. I have been to the Museums in 9 of the Soviet Hero Cities and Hero Brest Fortress and have studied any sniper I could get a look at, there are many variations, and the PU series is a whole different program. Just my two cents. Vic ?? Skid
Skid, I am not making any judgement about finnbear or whether he had these made. I am pointing out mine came from him, as did Vic's, and a couple other member's here all came from finnbear. If they are not original, and I am not sure at this point, he could have been fooled too. Hopefully these are original Soviet WW2 production.
 

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Thanks Molosky. Excellent job with those pictures, especially with museum conditions.

That rifle, and probably the mount, appear to be heavily refurbed. The receiver markings are kinda weak. The mount lacks the rifle serial prefix, which is interesting and maybe restamped(vs previously unissued?). Mount lacks the usual markings on the rear we see in CH's mounts and that are present on the mounts I posted(but slightly different). I suspect they were there before the refurb of the mount or maybe the mount was a new unissued mount that never had the other markings?? The retaining pin looks like yours with Tula proof. Wonderful rifle.

Ludmilla did not mount that scope. Makes one wanta get in there and straighten that scope out. Nice 41 dated Progress scope. Thanks for posting.
 
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