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Discussion Starter #1
I've read the sticky about the Makarov ammo. What I'd like to know is what's actually being used for defensive ammo right now by the forum members.

regards....roger
 

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I use Hornady XTP. I buy it locally, but you can get it at many online retailers.

There are folks who swear by using FMJ ammo for the 9x18 round, for the understandable reason that guaranteed penetration to organ depth is more important to them than expansion.

I personally believe that 2-3 rounds of either of these will drop an assailant, but don't expect a first-round drop in any case. Practice, and practice more. Aim center of mass, and unload.
 

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Speer Gold Dots loaded by Georgia Arms.

My bride's Cz 82 is loaded with Gold Dots from Georgia Arms. It did OK in water : 20 -22 inches of water, 7 layers of plastic ,and a small but classic mushroom. That's more penetration than Box 'o Truth got with Hornady. I was surprised.
It takes as many as it takes to "git 'er done". Water isn't gelatin and felons aren't made of jello, But some testing is better than none.
I'll be testing Hornady and Gold Dots from 3-4 different companies, but so far this is the only American HP she's got. The non- American " cheap practice ammo" did not test well.
I had a tough time finding Hornady since June. 3 backorders from 2 companies, lots of "out of stock". 1 box ,finally, on the way.
Mileage varies.
 

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I've worked on a few killings using the 9x18. I carry the hottest 95-gr FMJ I can find (for me, S&B and AE perform equally well, averaging between 1050 fps and 1100 fps from my Sov military Mak depending on the temp). In the cases I've worked, the ball round has penetrated adequately but not overpenetrated.

After working over 150 handgun killings, I can tell you that the two things that effect stops are 1) shot placement and 2) adequate penetration. Expansion is gravy (and acts as a "brake" to slow rounds like the 9x19 that would overpenetrate in ball form), but seems irrelevant to stopping in low-powered handgun rounds (in the first place, I can tell you that rounds rarely seem to expand in actual shootings of people as they do in those photos in gunrags, and, in the second place, I had a nationally renowned pathologist who was consulting on one of our cases tell me that he can't tell the difference in the wound tracks left by 9mms, .40s, .38s or .45s).

In a slow-moving, low mass round like the 9x18, give me that hottest ball there is.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I've worked on a few killings using the 9x18. I carry the hottest 95-gr FMJ I can find (for me, S&B and AE perform equally well, averaging between 1050 fps and 1100 fps from my Sov military Mak depending on the temp). In the cases I've worked, the ball round has penetrated adequately but not overpenetrated.
Is the S&B mentioned above the red/green/white box ? S&B also make the Winchester White box. Is this the same ?


regards....roger
 

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I use Barnaul 95 gr JHP and am quite satisfied with it. I shot into a jug of ice with 3.25 inches penetration and it broke into nine pieces.
 

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Is the S&B mentioned above the red/green/white box ? S&B also make the Winchester White box. Is this the same ?
I've run S&B and WWB thru the same gun across the same chrono on the same day, and got slightly lower velocities for the S&B (951fps) than for the WWB (982 fps.) The batch of S&B that I had shot thru the same gun but on an earlier day came in at 966 fps.

I don't think these differences are meaningful, and probably represent nothing more than batch to batch variations. When you take the 25 round green plastic carriers out of the outer ammo boxes you cannot tell the difference between the WWB and S&B rounds without looking at the headstamp.
 

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I like Barnaul Ram 95grHP/Ball mix in my CZ82 and 83-real accurate too..I use Wolf 120 hp in my Makarov.I doubt the 120 expands.I have never recovered a 120 wolf hp but it sure made a healthy dent in some hard drives and also went clear through some small logs.I think North Bender recovered some with no expansion but this load does penetrate for sure.sharp recoil.:D
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks guys ! Really appreciate the info. Plus, I'm really beginning to appreciate my Russian Mak !!! :)


regards....roger
 

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I don't carry my mak...but I do have a few boxes of XTP's for when/if I do.

I will ONLY use commonly available commercial ammunition for carry.

When/if I am ever forced to use it for defense, I'd rather not hear the term "Specialty cop-killer bullets" or "Home-made cartridges for maximum killing power" when I'm sitting on the stand....and you can bet that will come up if you're using reloads or some off-the-wall round.

An excerpt from an archived post on ammo, found here on the forum:

"The most consistent results I've seen have been from Winchester Ranger JHP's, Corbon's DPX, Speer Gold Dots and Hornady XTP's. The first two do well in the dreaded 4-layers of denim barrier tests, but the XTP's don't do quite so well. The XTP's and the DPX bullets have consistently penetrated deeper than their competitors but this is little surprise as the first is designed not be an aggressive expander and the latter bullet's expansion
characteristics and design are intended for deeper penetration for bullet weight than might normally be expected."

YMMV.
 

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Pow'R Ball?

If it's already been discussed, sorry for bringing it up again, but what about Cor-Bon Pow'R Ball?
 

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Last night I put up an old archived post "9x18 Wetpack Penetration Testing". I shot some of the PowR'Ball on that test. The round travels incredibly fast - over 1,300 fps on my chronometer. It expands remarkedly and so doesn't penetrate as well as some other HP rounds. The recoil is not bad because it's 70-grains. Seemed very accurate.
 

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Silver Bear 120gr. Barks loud, hits hard. Penetrated 5 2-liter Coke bottles set end-to-end. Roughly 20 inches of water. Mushroomed perfectly.

Alternatively, Chinese green box FMJ. Not because the round is that great, but because the smell of the burnt propellent would make a tyranosaur run.
 

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If it's already been discussed, sorry for bringing it up again, but what about Cor-Bon Pow'R Ball?
When I water tested Pow'Rball, it blew up the 1st jugs very decisively. Penetrated into 2 more, but with greatly reduced effect , particularly in the 3rd....
One round failed to eject, the only time that CZ 82 has jammed.
 

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I use Hornady XTP. I buy it locally, but you can get it at many online retailers.

There are folks who swear by using FMJ ammo for the 9x18 round, for the understandable reason that guaranteed penetration to organ depth is more important to them than expansion.

I personally believe that 2-3 rounds of either of these will drop an assailant, but don't expect a first-round drop in any case. Practice, and practice more. Aim center of mass, and unload.
Same here It shoots well and cycles great!
 

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Would one of you mind commenting on Silver Bear JHP's? I Find it flawless in my Bulgarian for practice. I also have some of those CCI shotshells. Are they feasible for defensive ammo in a 9X18?
 

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Elyj, I have used 120 grain silver bear in my carry Bulgarian Makarov for years now. It has always functioned flawlessly at the range in every makarov I have tried it in, although other members of this board have reported problems with it over the years. It is a hot round, has good penetration, and used to be easy to find in my local gun store. Because of the problems other members have reported, I would reccomend shooting a lot of it through your Mak to make sure it is right for your Mak.

The 120 grain silver bear will not cycle reliably in my pA63 (the dimensions of the round seem too big), so I would not consider carrying it in a pA63.

Good luck!
 
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