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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Edit: Title changed to reflect the actual contents of the thread.

After some disappointments playing in the auctions, I found my bright spot today. The MBT 91/28 that I ordered last week arrived. It shipped really fast - like, it was out the door the same day I ordered it. It was due last Friday but some UPS mechanical issued delayed it a few days. After waiting nearly two weeks for my former FFL dealer to locate my last shipment, enter it in their books, and run my background check, I decided to switch to a smaller gun shop for this order. It made a big difference. They were able to complete all the red tape and have my new prize in my hands in about an hour.

At first glance, the MBT made 91/28 TS is awesome. It looked significantly better than it did in the pictures. I look forward to giving it a more thorough examination in the near future and sharing a few pictures when I have them.
 

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let's re-clarify this .. what you have is a Metallurgica Bresciana Tempini ( M.B.T. ) made Moschetto per Truppe Speciali Modello 1891 Modificato (Musketoon for Special Troops Model 1891 Modified), these have been called as 91/28 models and it was told to me by a well known author on these firearms, Alberto Simonelli, in no such way, shape or form were these ever called as 91/28's, there was a Moschetto Modello 1891 / 1928 model but it was specifically used as the nomenclature of the rifle that was designed to use the Tromblonico grenade launcher. They specifically in the different circulars they wrote on the modification of these firearms, use the word modificato or T.S. modificato, nowhere are they referred to as 91/28's.

Patrick
 
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Congrats OP.

91/28 TS, 91/28 TS, 91/28 TS, 91/28 TS.........

Sorry Pat, But here in AMERICA....we will call them what we want!

Nobody gives a rats @ss what Alberto calls them!

91/28 TS, 91/28 TS, 91/28 TS..........
 

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3798196


Here is my 1929 Beretta Carcano 91/28 TS! :ROFLMAO:

91/28 TS, 91/28 TS, 91/28 TS........
 

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Congrats OP.

91/28 TS, 91/28 TS, 91/28 TS, 91/28 TS.........

Sorry Pat, But here in AMERICA....we will call them what we want!

Nobody gives a rats @ss what Alberto calls them!

91/28 TS, 91/28 TS, 91/28 TS..........

I call them “cheese burgers covered in bacon.” For some reason it confuses all of the other collectors around me, and the book authors have yet to adopt it, but I trust it will catch on in time.
 

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"cheese burgers covered in bacon.....TS!" :ROFLMAO:
 

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Congrats OP.

91/28 TS, 91/28 TS, 91/28 TS, 91/28 TS.........

Sorry Pat, But here in AMERICA....we will call them what we want!

Nobody gives a rats @ss what Alberto calls them!

91/28 TS, 91/28 TS, 91/28 TS..........
And this is why we are incorrect in the nomenclature of these specific models, we are teaching people incorrectly what they really were designated.
Get a train in Italy and go to Florence, you will never making there, no such place exists, it is Firenze.

Patrick
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I actually like the 91TS-M designation, but I’m not sure exactly how to type it, I know most people are familiar with 91/28, and I’m definitely not going to type out the full Italian name every time I make reference to an Italian rifle. I know manufacturers marks like MBT or FNA are actually abbreviations for a long string of Italian, but most people here are familiar with the abbreviations and typing out full Italian company names is just too time consuming for me.

I do see the point of standardizing some of the abbreviated names we use here. Many of us are annoyed be the ignorant use of American firearm terminology, like the “AR-47 Assault Rifle with attached bayonet launcher”. I support a standardized version of Carcano terms, but I don’t want to move to Italy to shoot mine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
You have ammo or reload ? If not gonna be a long road for ya. I was at Axis a few weeks ago, tons of those spaghetti rifles in bins.
I don’t have ammo yet and I’m not a reloader. On the positive side, soon I will have accumulated enough Carcano rifles to defend myself for a while by throwing them at attackers.
 

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I actually like the 91TS-M designation, but I’m not sure exactly how to type it, I know most people are familiar with 91/28, and I’m definitely not going to type out the full Italian name every time I make reference to an Italian rifle. I know manufacturers marks like MBT or FNA are actually abbreviations for a long string of Italian, but most people here are familiar with the abbreviations and typing out full Italian company names is just too time consuming for me.

I do see the point of standardizing some of the abbreviated names we use here. Many of us are annoyed be the ignorant use of American firearm terminology, like the “AR-47 Assault Rifle with attached bayonet launcher”. I support a standardized version of Carcano terms, but I don’t want to move to Italy to shoot mine.
It is simple for these, just use 91 TSM, 1891 TSM

Patrick
 
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There may be times when names and terms generated by collectors can be helpful, such as when no “official” terminology or nomenclature exists, but when such “source” information from the country of origin or use is known, collectors and students of the subject have an obligation to learn and utilize the correct language.
 

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I've bought two Carcanos from Axis before and one was on a truck within four hours and the other was shipped out just the next day. Awesome service from! I actually seriously contemplated picking up the same rifle you bought here haha-glad to hear it ended up being a pretty nice one!
 

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View attachment 3798196

Here is my 1929 Beretta Carcano 91/28 TS! :ROFLMAO:

91/28 TS, 91/28 TS, 91/28 TS........
Nice! Now that is a cheese burger covered in bacon........with a slice of lettuce for roughage and a slice of onion and tomato for good health.
 

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There may be times when names and terms generated by collectors can be helpful, such as when no “official” terminology or nomenclature exists, but when such “source” information from the country of origin or use is known, collectors and students of the subject have an obligation to learn and utilize the correct language.
If numerous sources existed I would agree. (Not just one source)

But when numerous sources like books and the internets have references

too said terminology or nomenclatures. I will use those terms in describing MY firearms.

A quick search and there are numerous references to M91/28 TSs.......

3798473


This book has a Chapter on M91/28 TSs.

3798474


This ad from 1938!

Making blanket statements that "nowhere are they referred to..." is such BS.
 

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I would trust Alberto and Giovanni research as they have access to the various archives, documents, manuals, etc. in Italy (Terni, Roma, Brescia, etc.), they speak, read, write Italian, are native born there and live there. They have access to things we have not had in the past over the years and have found conflicting information regarding what was thought to be and have corrected this reflect their research such as the designation / designation of this particular model. Things can change since books or Internet websites / references have been written over the years. Maybe if you would go read the website they put together and read the various circulars they have in the T.S. section you will see what those modifications were done to them, some were done well prior to 1928 like Circolare nº 121 del 26 febbraio 1920 and circolare n° 538 del 13 settembre 1923 which either replaced or modified the nose cap to use the standard 1891 bayonet.

Patrick
 

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My issue with tossing out the 91/28 TS descriptor is two fold.

First when I speak to a knowledgeable seller and say I am looking for a 91/28 TS they understand what I am looking for. If I say I want a 91TS Modified, if they even get what this means, it can be any TS carbine made from 1890's to 1930's more/less without traverse bayonet lug. And more/less is a very complicated paragraph or 15 minute conversation few will want to have.

Second, when I say we need to agree on some collector terminology to replace the 91/28 TS, all I hear is "not my problem". I dont see scrapping a two generation language standard without suitable substitute means of referring to the adjustable rear sight TS made after 1928. The fact that the Italian army or armorer did not care is not the point. The fact that modern collectors do care it exactly the point.

The German army did not (afaik) differentiate between early, mid or late K98k rifles. But today, it is a very significant difference and if this is not a good example, there are many more. Do you think a Japanese general requested 100 last ditch rifles. Black Lugers! That is HOW WE TALK.

Same with all the "Pre Warning" modern guns. That is collector jargon. We are not trying to rewrite history or imply anything back at the Berry factory.
 

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One more point that bears repeating, as pointed out by Spartan, most of the collector world is working off these books. Books, we have been repeatedly encouraged to buy. I think a little less knucle wrapping is in order until (if or whenever) these books MIGHT get reprinted. And those reprints might contain some new set of politically correct Carcano terminologies.
 

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I may be suffering from discussion and opinion overload here; I'm not too sure what all of the controversy is about. There are plenty of sources that spell out the differences between an 1891 (or 91) TS, a TS Modificato (TS M), a 91/28, a 91/38 TS 7.35mm, a 91/38 TS 6.5mm and a 91/24. I don't see the point in trying to come up with some kind of "collector terminology" when the correct terminology already exists.
 
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