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I believe you answered your own question there. They supplied arms to many countries so why wouldnt the ex-ddr mosins have been sent directly to a needy country instead of being refurbed and stored?
Your question shouldn't be limited to triangle 1 rifles. The soviets kept millions of mosins in storage - thats a given. The fact they didn't send certain ones doesn't mean a thing.
 

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Ratnik, thanks for trying to make fact, sanity and reason happen regarding all of this.

The problem is: They Don't Want To Hear Truth. Its inconvenient and ruins their mindset.

This is like arguing with a drunk: its a waste of time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
Ratnik, thanks for trying to make fact, sanity and reason happen regarding all of this.

The problem is: They Don't Want To Hear Truth. Its inconvenient and ruins their mindset.

This is like arguing with a drunk: its a waste of time.
I've never seen anything accepted in such blind faith. Oh wait, the last two elections lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
This thread caught my interest and started searching the web for German Nagants and this popped up on another site....

East Germany, Or DDR. Which was formed in 1949, Used many M44's. But production number's are tough. Supposedly they didn't make any. Russia made them for the DDR. The DDR added thier own mark's.
I have googled the highlighted paragraph and come up with nothing. Do you have a link or anything?
 

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I have googled the highlighted paragraph and come up with nothing. Do you have a link or anything?
Possibly a paraphrase of this:

http://www.mosinnagant.net/global mosin nagants/DDR-M44-Carbine.asp

I have no dog in this fight except for historical curiosity (only have one /1\ marked Mosin to my name). Haven't been collecting nearly as long as many here, and the DDR thing was apparently accepted as fact long before I was in the hobby (not that that makes it true). I also wish we could get some details on the origin of, and reasoning behind the theory.
 

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I have no dog in this fight except for historical curiosity (only have one /1\ marked Mosin to my name). Haven't been collecting nearly as long as many here, and the DDR thing was apparently accepted as fact long before I was in the hobby (not that that makes it true). I also wish we could get some details on the origin of, and reasoning behind the theory.
+1 I only have one to.

I bought my DDR by accident when buying the last MO southern ohio gun had in stock; by my luck it was /1\ marked and a MO (1953).

Until i have hard evidence to say YEA or NAY i will continue to assume the /1\ is a ddr mark .
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·

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Anybody can explain, what is the proof that 1 stamp is a DDR marking, that was placed only at Soviet guns?
Why it is not observed on other guns, f.e. MP44 or at other non soviet guns, that were used by DDR?
The Nationale Volksarmée of the GDR/DDR certainly used very, very many ex-Wehrmacht weapons: MP/StG44 and K98k.

Dear Mr. Ratnik, do you have any documentation to contribute to the debate and speculation about the provenance of the /1\ marking?

Folks have similarly engaged in a welter of speculation about the double and even triple dated "MO" marked rifles, which really are "dime a dozen" or relatively common these days too. A posting by someone with relatives in the Ukraine related hearing from those relatives a version of events that turns out to be quite close to the "received wisdom" among U.S.-based collectors after all: A militia/paramilitary/guard body that provided security to factories, rail yards, and other important infrastructure in industry, transportation, etc. that used essentially the old name that had been used for the work camp/ Gulag guard units...

As for when Soviet-supplied weapons may have been returned to the USSR, there is the case of the Soviets attempting to reach détente with the West, and the period when SPD candidate Willy Brandt in the Bundesrepublik turned toward "Ost politik." So in a show of reducing Soviet materiel from the West-German/East-German border, what better than a bunch of junk that was already obsolete--not "obsolescent" but outright obsolete--including a bunch of WWII-vintage small-arms that frankly had no use whatsoever to the DDR state?

Look at photos of the DDR "workers militia" or Kampfgruppen der Arbeiterklasse" circa 1972: pretty much to a man armed with Kalashnikovs [MPiKMs made in the DDR]. By the 1970s about the only people using Mosins were in Central Asia [Afghanistan M44s], and Africa [Portuguese colonies such as Guinea-Bissau, Angola, Mozambique...].

The whole entire reason we've got refurbished Mosin-Nagants in the USA is due to 1) they were made in enormous industrial quantities, and 2) Nothing was done with them in the Cold War...They sat in storage in places like the old salt mine in Artemovsk in what is now the Ukraine.
 

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SKS's were in East Germany as early as 1959. Built in country, with the insignia MfNV ( Ministerium für Nationale Verteidigung) in a sunburst style arch. None, to my knowledge, have ever been recorded to exhibit the /1\ stamp.
 

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I dunno much about triangle 1 stamped rifles and carbines - I have read opinions from folks who have been in the collecting arena for much longer than I, that triangle 1 stamped Mosins were used by East Germans back in the day.

I do know, I do not own such a stamped weapon, but I have come across a dozen or more so stamped. Local Cabela's had no less than three of them sitting in their racks.

Opine away yeah or nay, but we may never know for sure till some sort of documentation shows up & such documentation most likely is not available for us to see. Probably one of those stamps on a Soviet weapon we will never know for sure what it means.

Pahtu.
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
Actually, Milsurp2.0, that is me trying to cite ol' Herr Karl-Heinz Wrobel's claims. I've not actually got his two volume study on the Drie-linien gewehre... Do you have a copy?
Nope. Did the link to the other thread have documentation of some kind mentioned? He has a book that explains all this and no one has actually cited it?
 

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I have no dog in this fight except for historical curiosity (only have one /1\ marked Mosin to my name). Haven't been collecting nearly as long as many here, and the DDR thing was apparently accepted as fact long before I was in the hobby (not that that makes it true). I also wish we could get some details on the origin of, and reasoning behind the theory.
Me 2.

There is no claim that these /1\ marked Mosins were either built or refurbished in E. Germany, is there?
From the looks of them I'd say no. Appears that (returned?) barreled actions were refurbed in Russia, parts swapped around (stocks with the mark but not the action, and visa-versa) and re-blued/re-shellacked to be made into standard refurbed rifles.
 

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WOW!!!...too much booze during the T-day holiday, fellas???


So far, I have NOW read NOTHING that indisputably says that the /1\ mark is DDR (East Germany, pre-wall-tumble-down for those who just tuned in)...



However...I HAVE, on the other hand, read (here on gunboards, on this thread), that a European GunBoards member is QUESTIONING this assertion...

SO...until we have FACTUAL information on this topic (I think the Euro_GB members kinda hold High Trump Card here)...


...SHOW me the money, U.S. collectors, in terms of photos or paperwork (i.e. the indisputable PROOF that the /1\ mark is East German)!!!!!!...






Until then, I am going with my original assertion when I started collecting Mosins a mere 2 years ago...these are Soviet or other East bloc refurb. markings, NOT necessarily DDR...
 

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I go back and state from an Expert in this field:
"The Mosin-Nagant Rifle by Terence W. Lapin 6th Ed. 2013 North Cape Publications, Inc. p. 221 states that it is East Germany (refurbishment mark); first quality weapon.
If you have any better or reputable information that is published please present it?
Bring on a documented collector that discounts this information....
 

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I go back and state from an Expert in this field:
"The Mosin-Nagant Rifle by Terence W. Lapin 6th Ed. 2013 North Cape Publications, Inc. p. 221 states that it is East Germany (refurbishment mark); first quality weapon.
If you have any better or reputable information that is published please present it?
Bring on a documented collector that discounts this information....
Joe:

Well if it's printed in a real book it must be accurate, right? ;)

You are according the Lapin book far more importance in the field than it deserves. It's a good summary for a beginner, nothing more. You will learn far more here and on Ted's site.
 

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That book you referenced isn't very highly regarded by many here. Most members here use the information provided on mosinnagant.net and 7.62x54r.net in lieu of the information in Lapins book
I go back and state from an Expert in this field:
"The Mosin-Nagant Rifle by Terence W. Lapin 6th Ed. 2013 North Cape Publications, Inc. p. 221 states that it is East Germany (refurbishment mark); first quality weapon.
If you have any better or reputable information that is published please present it?
Bring on a documented collector that discounts this information....
 

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Nope. Did the link to the other thread have documentation of some kind mentioned? He has a book that explains all this and no one has actually cited it?
I do not have a copy of the Karl-Heinz Wrobel book. This is from the thread on Ted's 7.62x54r.net forums from some years ago:

"BTW: The "triangle 1" brand is no possession mark of the DDR, it indicates refurbishment there. Refurbishment was urgently needed on many rifles MN that came from the Big Brother Soviet Union, as mostly old (you see the date 1935 on the barrel of mine) and very well used weapons were sent. As for sniper rifles MN in the DDR: I have an East German Mosin-Nagant manual and there all types of scopes are shown, from the very early PE (still with adjustment ring), the PEM to the PU."

i.e. DDR factory mark [Ernst Thaelmann/ former Haenel? Documentation?] for refurbishment but not a "property mark" the same way an [SA] is a Finnish army mark"

Like you all, I would hope to see more actual documentation and/or records and primary sources. For the time being, we're left with the earlier information for several Mosin-Nagant questions. If the /1\ is not a DDR refurbishment mark, that is fine by me.. but where is the documentation proving that it is just another variation of Soviet-era marks. And if it is just a Soviet mark, then what facility used it? What does it indicate? What is the meaning?

Cheers, DC
 
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