[pioneer13120]

I'm asking the collective mind again...

First off, has anyone seen a DDR 2 marking on a 91/30? It is the small stamp, the same size as the DDR mark on a Nagant pistol. I've included a fews pics of this rifle. Its a decent updated dragoon all parts match, no bayo. Wood is correct.

Second questions is of anyone has seen a Polish M44 thats been refurbed by the Romanain's? I found one recently that has all matching numbers on the bolt, barrel, and magazine with an unmarked Romanian bolt. Wood looked Polish with worn shellac, 1952 dated.

Pics are posted. After taking the wood off and a closer inspection this carbine definately came from Albania. It is a mash up of Hungarian, Romanian and Polish parts with a few Russian thrown in too. A Tula band spring and an Izhevsh band are the only Russian parts I saw. The bolt has a very faint EP mark (I can't even read it) and you can see where the previous stamped number was ground off (very faint also). Hungarian bolthead and extractor, Romanian handle and cocking knob, plum ejector, tang is not dated, has an 'A' on it. Magazine is not stamped, but blueing matches. Over all a very nice piece.

Thanks for the info!

Pioneer13120

 

[[email protected]]

The DDr mark usually contains either a 1 or a 2 inthe triangle. These numbers are ratings for the condition of the piece. 1 is a first class rating, 2 is a second class rating with one being the higher condition value.

Joe McD

 

[alks207]

That's funny, when I went to a local Big5 I saw an M44 with a half of a 2 in a triangle and I was wondering if that had something to do with East Germany. I guess it does.

 

[DudleyDR]

That is funny! A half of a 2 in a triangle would be a 1 in a triangle! DDR

 

[pioneer13120]

I knew what the markings mean, I was just wondering how common the '2' stamp was.

 

[pioneer13120]

That is funny! A half of a 2 in a triangle would be a 1 in a triangle! DDR

DDR,

I finally found a T53 cleaning rod. Still need a Berdan II one tho!!

pioneer13120

 

[DudleyDR]

I'll keep looking! Glad you found one for your T-53! DDR

 

[Alpenflage]

I knew what the markings mean, I was just wondering how common the '2' stamp was.

The 2 seems to be a lot less common than the 1.

Has the 1 and 2 actually been confirmed to stand for first and second grade weapons? I know that's what most of us accept as the meanings but has it ever been verified? There was a thread here recently that brought this subject up and IIRC other members had mentioned that the meanings of the numbers hadn't been 100% confirmed. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

 

[[email protected]]

See page 219, Lapin, Terence W., The Mosin-Nagant Rifle, 4th Edition, revised and expanded. Note that the triangle containing the 2 is inverted in relation to the 1 triangle.

Joe McD

 

[pioneer13120]

Polish/Romanian M44

I have a 1944 Izhevsk M44 that went to Romania after the war and got a matching number Romanian bolt there. THIS IS NOT A WTS AD AND I SURE DON'T WANT TO GET IN TROUBLE FOR VIOLATING ANY RULES, but I do have some photos and a more detailed description of it posted on the Trader if anyone is interested in learning a little more about these kind of weapons.

A Polish M44 going to Romania would be possible too - Romania was one of the poorer socialist nations (after Albania) and a lot of stuff worked its way down there before ultimately ending up in Albania. Which makes me ask if the Romanian bolt in this Polish carbine is number matching, and if it had a previous number that was scrubbed. If it is a matching Romanian bolt and the number is the first one that was stamped on it, the Romanians most likely did this. If it has been renumbered, it's probably one of the large quantity of M44's that were imported from Albania a few years back.

What and where is the import marking on it? What do you mean by "unmarked Romanian bolt"? Is it un-numbered, or doesn't it have the Romanian arrow in triangle marking? If it doesn't have Romanian markings, how do you know it's Romanian?

The bolt's un-numbered (looks scrubbed), and all the bolt parts have the Romanian proof stamps. The import mark is on the bottom of the barrel, just in front of the bayo lug and dot matrix on top of the receiver. The blueing is about 40%, but the rifling is still strong, just lite frosting. The barrel, magazine and buttplate are all stamped matching and the wear matches as well. If I get some time tonight or tomorrow evening I'll take some pics if there's any interest.

 

[7.62x54r]

I've never seen a 2 in a triangle before. The DDR 2 in a triangle is supposedly in an inverted triangle. I'm not convinced that there is such a thing as a DDR 2 in a triangle, much less that they mean 1st grade, 2nd grade, etc.

Many M44s from the Soviet Union, Poland, and Hungary ended up in Romania. It's not at all surprising to find Romanian parts on any of them. I have Romanian Instructie marked M44s from all four countries.

 

[warfire]

I haven't ever seen a triangle 2 marking either but that doesnt mean that they dont exist. Also the style of the triangle 1/2 markings have to be consistent with the DDR style. I have seen a MN M38 with a triangle 1 marking but it was the wrong style and was most likely done by the Unkraines as some kind of inspection/refurbishment mark. Are there any forum members in Germany who can research this marking through official documents or records?

 

[7.62x54r]

I didn't say they don't exist, I'm just not convinced yet. This rifle comes closer than any other I've ever seen.

The "XO in a diamond" is even more interesting though IMO.

 

[pioneer13120]

Marcus' Pictures

Marcus, I copied your pics for the WTT/WTS board and loaded them here.

I'll get some pics of mine this evening and get those loaded as well.

 

[JTV]

I'm asking the collective mind again...
Also, (this is a little OT for the MN thread, but WTH) how common are WWI German ammo pouches that are SA marked? Did the German's sell them off after the war? I've got a few that are stamped on top of the middle pouch.

Nice rifle. Finland acquired large amounts of WW1 German ammo pouches, but as far as I know it is unclear if they were bought from France in 1919 with other German equipment or if they were bought directly from Germany around that that time (1919 - early 1920's). These pouches are pretty common in Finland - typical price is around 10 - 20 euros depending condition (which tends to vary a lot).

Jarkko

 

[Vic]

I think the bulk of the pouches Jarrko were bought post WW1 in the 1920 time frame on the surplus market when the allies had a fire sale of rifles and equipment given them as war reparations. The items were bought for virtually pennies and a fledgling new nation like Finland with no money went shopping to buy on the cheap what was considered at he time the best available material. I think the bulk of the WW1 dated pouches came to Finland in this manner in the 1919-1922 time frame. They did buy some directly but the majority came in surplus sale contracts with Italy, France and others after the war along with rifles and other field equipment.

 

[7.62x54r]

Marcus, you misquoted me. I have no reason to doubt that the 1 in a triangle is East German. I just doubt that the 2 in a triangle exists as an East German mark, at least in the context of being a lesser grade of the same group of guns that have the 1 in a triangle.

 

[pioneer13120]

Added pics and description

Thanks everyone for the input!!

I added the pictures and after a good breakdown and cleaning it looks even better. Added some description as well.

pioneer13120

 

[Erich Mielke]

The East Germans DID have a 2 in a triangle mark. It denoted a lesser quality of product. They also had an "S" (Sonderqualitaet) in a triangle.

When the 2 was in a triangle the triangle was upside down as compared to the Triangle-1.

Jon.

Marcus, you misquoted me. I have no reason to doubt that the 1 in a triangle is East German. I just doubt that the 2 in a triangle exists as an East German mark, at least in the context of being a lesser grade of the same group of guns that have the 1 in a triangle.

 

[7.62x54r]

Jon,

What is the source of your information? TIA