Gunboards Forums banner
1 - 7 of 7 Posts

·
Copper Bullet member
Joined
·
1,446 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Evenin', all - been given five rounds of 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser ammunition in a clip, but sadly I have to pull it as here in UK I am prohibited from owning a single soft-point bullet, let alone a clip of five. Even then I will have to hand in the bullets to an RFD for disposal.

Yeah, I know...

Anyhow, my question is an easy one for you guys out there. The bullets are steel-jacketed [I tested them], and the headstamp is

DWM * K *

Condition is as new.......

Any ideas on an approximate date for this little item?

The clip is brass, BTW.

TIA

tac
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,631 Posts
I can be specific on a date... A cabin up north at The Lakes, a pale young, buxom, Swedish blond... Sorry.

Of no help to you but I'd LOVE to understand the issues behind what you cannot have in this case and how one handles that please. Fascinating!

Alden
 

·
Copper Bullet member
Joined
·
1,446 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I can be specific on a date... A cabin up north at The Lakes, a pale young, buxom, Swedish blond... Sorry.

Of no help to you but I'd LOVE to understand the issues behind what you cannot have in this case and how one handles that please. Fascinating!

Alden
Simple - here in UK you have to be licensed to hunt game with a rifle - we call it stalking, BTW. This means having land, or the use of land, which is suitable for shooting over, and of course, occupied by the animaks you want to shoot. In most cases these are deer of some kind, and vermin, such as foxes, and certain birds, like crows or pigeons. You also have to have completed the British Deer Society course on how-to, the 101 of deer-stalking, and over 100,000 of us have, too.

...and of course, you have to have a firearms certificate [FAC] in any case.

This permission to shoot over land comes from the landowner personally - and remember that here in UK somebody or something owns EVERYTHING. Game wardens will have permission to shoot on land such as forestry and so on, and estate managers on the numerous estates. The shooters who go there to shoot only do so by invitations, or by paying to do so. In order to do even that, they must have an 'open' firearms certificate, which allows them in law to shoot anywhere were they have either paid to shoot, or have been invited to shoot. I must stress that the UK is a very small country, and although Scotland appears to be pretty big and 99% empty, it is made up of managed estates of very large size. Most game shooters have named and nominated bits of land over which they are allowed to shoot, and no others.

So how does this effect me?

Well, I am a TARGET rifle shooter, so I have no requirement to purchase or to make expanding ammunition of any kind, since you don't need it to shoot paper.

And since I don't need to have it I am prohibited in law from having it at all, for any reason, since I have NO reason. I can't buy expanding bullets, either, as my firearms certificate is not annotated to permit me to buy them, and I would have to show my FAC to buy such bullets in any case.

The law is quite clear - illegal possession of expanding ammunition may be punished by an unlimited fine, and up to five years in jail.

Be very glad that you only have a gun-hating new president to cope with.

On the other hand, I have a .451cal BP target rifle that shoots 600gr lead bullets that certainly expand, and a .58cal rifle too, as well as two BP handguns that shoot soft lead projectiles that expand....

Ah, I forgot for a moment....we are not allowed to shoot game with a BP firearm......except a shotgun.

And I can continue to shoot my .308s, my 7.5s and my 7x57s in good health, but under no circumstances could I ever get permission to buy a piddling 17HMR - the ammunition is actually DESIGNED to expand, you see...

tac
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,631 Posts
Reconnoiter...

Off-topic a tad but related to what you say this is an article I wrote w/some minor mods for the Forum...
Alden


Reconnoiter...
By Alden

We just visited a US Civil War reenactment in between regional breakfasts of eggs with back-bacon, beans, bangers, bread and butter in beautiful Bath, Wales, Great Britain. Whew. The American Museum hosted annual event is organized by the Southern Skirmish Association (SoSkAn) in October. “Southern” here is southern England, the balance of the island nation usually under the auspices of the American Civil War Society and other groups who participated. The actual American Civil War infantry battle that occurred in Bath… Kidding! Our civil war is world history and ancestors and allies in SoSkAn, active since 1969, recently won an award for most authentic military living-history in the UK that I can’t fault but for being a little “showy.”

Not an actual battle’s reenactment, these are encampments with tactical battle demonstrations by groups of volunteers for love of living the learned history, fun, and the benefit of the public. The United States camp was sharply arranged with exact bright tents in linear company streets on open plains, the Confederate’s more loosely laid out and conforming to individual preference and the woods they used. On the sharply sloped manicured ground the battle between a couple of hundred evenly divided, well equipped and acquitted, Blue and Grey troops was accompanied by a South-leaning (Lost Cause) introduction and “colour” commentary over a P.A. system. Represented were elements of the 69th NY, 42nd PA, 28th Mass., 18th Missouri, 17th & 55th VA’s, 16th Tenn., 15th Ark., 10th GA, the Palmetto Sharpshooters, the 1st “Mary Land” Artillery, etc. Ground and air-burst (trees) pyrotechnics were used to imitate counter-battery fire upon nice 6 lb. howitzer, 10 lb. Parrott, and 12 lb. Napoleon cannon once the two-prong Federal attack captured them from the sleeping Rebels and turned them. Counter-attacks to retake their guns by the Confederates, already exhausted by loss and retreating from Gettysburg, only resulted in their deaths and ultimate surrender in this scenario. Next time I suspect the South prevails.

I inquired with a Union officer at an indoor display that included obvious reproduction Revolutionary War Brown Bess muskets converted from flintlock to percussion. More familiar with medicine than small-arms he did explain that British subjects are not allowed to own rifles anymore so anything they have is an inaccurate smoothbore and difficult enough to own. Police visited the night before insisting on a 24-hour guard over the small amount of blackpowder they had for this event and he further volunteered that these draconian laws only affect, hurt, the already law-abiding. All else appeared rather accurate on the surface and I recommend you take advantage of such demonstrations, and their lessons, closer to home. If interested visit these local units’ sites: http:// and http://.
 

·
Copper Bullet member
Joined
·
9,815 Posts
Not 100% sure, but I believe the DWM * K * headstamp dates from about 1895 to about 1910 (+-).
 

·
Copper Bullet member
Joined
·
1,446 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
..... British subjects are not allowed to own rifles anymore so anything they have is an inaccurate smoothbore and difficult enough to own...I inquired with a Union officer at an indoor display that included obvious reproduction Revolutionary War Brown Bess muskets converted from flintlock to percussion. More familiar with medicine than small-arms he did explain that British subjects are not allowed to own rifles anymore so anything they have is an inaccurate smoothbore and difficult enough to own. Police visited the night before insisting on a 24-hour guard over the small amount of blackpowder they had for this event and he further volunteered that these draconian laws only affect, hurt, the already law-abiding. All else appeared rather accurate on the surface and I recommend you take advantage of such demonstrations, and their lessons, closer to home. If interested visit these local units’ sites: http:// and http://.

Sadly, Sir, there are a number of very serious errors in your text which require me to speak up, lest folks on your side of the water get entirely the wrong impression about the geography of GB and the laws pertaining to the ownership of firearms.

Firstly, Bath is not in Wales, but in the County of Avon & Somerset. This dual county is firmly planted in England, where it has been since Roman times.

Secondly, you were totally erroneously informed by the gentleman to whom you spoke, hence my need to correct your comments, well-meant, I promise you.

If you read any of my hundreds of posts on this forum you'll quickly learn that here in UK we have a very large community of shooters of all kinds, from deer-stalking to game-bird shooting, and from .22 and centre-fire target rifle and bench-rest to all kinds of muzzle-loading as well and under-lever and gallery rifle and carbine - these latter forms of shooting sport that replaced our lost handguns. There are well over a million firearms certificate holder in the UK. How much like 'none' does that sound to you?

You will note that I also pointed out that we have well over 100,000 qualified deer-shooters here in UK - these figures are well over three years old - and each one of these people has at least one centre-fire rifle. As for BP shooting, please see the website of the Muzzleloading Association of Great Britain [www.mlagb.com] which hosts international competitions to which many American and other nations come. We even have a BP-only range at Wedgenock, built especially for the many BP handgun, rifle and shotgun disciplines that we enjoy.

I have eighteen firearms ranging from .58cal artillery carbine to a selection of .308Win, 7.5 Swiss, and 7x57 Mausers as well as nine .22 of different types and three handguns - two BP and one of the kind that we are still allowed to have. Many members of my club have far larger collections of firearms - one of them has over 200 Enfields and Mausers, ALL of them working.

The law on re-enactors owning firearms is exactly the same law as it is for the rest of us - you can have ANY smoothbore arm, be it matchlock, for those who enact the English civil war [do a search for the Sealed Knot Association], back as far as medieval [gonnes and so on] up to re-enactment of your civil war, which has an enormous following over here. Even the Japanese Tanegashima is well-represented in our many BP competetions. In order to have such an arm with a bored-through barrel - rather than definitive blank-firer, which does not - you have to have a shotgun certificate.

No big deal.

And for a dedicated blank-firer, you need nothing at all.

The apparent rigmarole over the storage of black powder is greatly exaggerated, too. Placing a guard on an overnight store of Black Powder seems to me to be total nonsense. Each shooter with a BP arm usually has his own BP permits, and is totally and individually responsible for its safe-keeping.

As for cheap and unconvincing replicas, well, all I can say to that assertion is that you get precisely what you pay for. Given the hoops we all have to go through to get our paws on firearms I'd say that many just don't feel it's worth the bother, and make do with cheap and unconvincing replicas from India, just like many of you do [see posts on www.muzzleloadingforum.com, on which I also write]. The only re-enactors that I know here in UK wouldn't be seen dead with anything less than a totally-convincing replication of a Springfield or Enfield musket for Pedersoli or Euroarms, at around $1200-1500 here. Many have hung onto their Parker-Hales, and their firearams certificates too, as 99% of them were made as rifles arms, like my Whitworth and Artillery carbine were.

If we could buy any real BP firearm freely, like you can in most states of the Union, then we would do it too, and have the usual high-quality replicas that many of you have.

I'm very happy that you seem, in spite of the pathetic impression you were given by a well-meaning if ignorant informant, to have enjoyed yourself somewhat, although you noted that it was somewhat 'showy'.

THAT, Sir, was precisely the point. It WAS intended to be showy, to show ordinary joes over here a little of what it may have been like, but without the latrine trenchs and stench of hundred of unwashed bodies of men and sweaty horses. There are upwards of a 1/4 million re-enactors of all eras here in UK who enjoy themselves greatly every time they put on their uniforms, from Babylonians to Vikings, and from the soldiers of the Battle of Towton to the Second Bull Run and Viet Nam. I hardly need add that the UK has the largest number of privately and individually-owned military vehicle collections on earth - including literally hundreds of tanks of all kinds.

Best wishes

tac
 
1 - 7 of 7 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top