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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
The following summary is posted to invite corrections and additions.



Early Czechoslovak Mausers
VZ98, VZ98/22, VZ23, VZ23a, and early VZ24 Rifle Production
(My Best Guess June 7, 2013)​


no prefix block: 10,000 VZ98 long rifles (with Lange sight), produced in 1923, VZ23 Short bayonet (250mm blade).

A, B, C, D blocks: 40,000 VZ98/22 long rifles produced in 1923, VZ23 Short bayonet.

E block: 10,000 VZ98/22 long rifles made for Turkey in 1927, VZ23 Short bayonet

D, E, F, G, H, J, K, L blocks: 80,000 VZ23 short rifles produced in 1923, VZ23 Long bayonet (400mm blade). Both D block VZ98/22 and VZ23 rifles are reported, suggesting the changeover between models may have occurred midway through the D block. I block was skipped.

M block: 10,000 VZ23a short rifles produced in 1924 with removable rear sight bed, VZ24 bayonet (300mm blade). My M block VZ23a rifle has a removable rear sight bed. The type bayonet information comes from the three Czech websites but I have a VZ24 bayonet marked E(lion)24. Made in 1924, the lion is in a circle like the 1923 rifles and bayonets.

N, O, P, R blocks: 40,000 VZ24 short rifles produced in 1924. VZ24 bayonet (300mm blade). Q block was skipped. First VZ24 rifles.

S, T, U, V, X, Y, Z blocks: 70,000 VZ24 short rifles produced in 1924-1925. W block was skipped. S block VZ24 rifle reported marked E(lion)24. My X block VZ24 rifle is marked E(lion)25.

Somewhere around here the change occurred to interchangeable parts with few numbered parts. Andy said "I believe in late 1925 was changed to 90% of changeability".

The Q and W blocks were skipped because those letters do not exist in the Czech alphabet. The I block was skipped, possibly because of the similarity to the number 1.

The second series of VZ24 serial numbers were xxxxA, xxxxB, xxxxC, xxxxD1, xxxxE1, etc. If it were xxxxA through xxxxZ and xxxxA1 through xxxxZ1, that would be a lot of rifles for 1926. Andy reports a D1 suffix rifle. We know from the website that both 5005A and 1140K1 are marked E(lion)26. 3966U1 is marked E(lion)27. That would mean if 1926 production were 5005A-9999Z and 0001A1-1140K1 would be at least 335,136 rifles.

VZ24 serial numbers ran:

Brno:
Nxxxx through Zxxxx
xxxxA through xxxxC
xxxxD1 through xxxxZ1
xxxxA2 through xxxxZ2
xxxxA3 through xxxxZ3
xxxxA4 through xxxxZ4

Považská Bysterica:
A5xxxx through H5xxxx

In January 1926 Yugoslavia bought 42,000 VZ24 rifles. In 1929 Yugoslavia bought 50,000 more VZ24 for an overall total of 92,000 VZ24 rifles.

In 1937-38 there was also a no prefix series, a C prefix, D, E, and P. I have a Japanese VZ24 P61600 and a Chinese VZ24 P49939 (bolt P17616). Of this grouping, the P series was by far the largest. A P67008 has been reported. These were intended for export but some were taken for the Czech Army and so marked. They were later sold to Romania along with other unused VZ24 rifles in the Czech Army inventory. Japanese rifles have been reported with a C prefix marked on the stock only (they would originally have been in the no prefix series).

from:
http://www.fronta.cz/fotogalerie/cs-opa ... uska-vz-23
hranicari.webgarden.cz/cz-vz-24
http://www.guns-info.cz/modules.php?nam ... e&sid=1336
http://rml1708.com/MyCzechWebpage/czmaim.htm
Serbian and Yugoslav Mauser Rifles by Branko Bogdanovic
John Wall (Sada and Franek)
AndyB in Slovakia (Sada and Franek)

VZ24 Romanian Contract Dates

A large quantity of unused Czechoslovak Army VZ24 rifles were sold to Romania in the first Romanian contract around 1939-1940. Used Czechoslovak Army VZ24 rifles were taken by Germany.

Romanian second contract, 1940: ARxxxx, BRxxxx, CRxxxx . . . YRxxxx. 25,000 per block. No QR or WR blocks. It seems that most, if not all, of the AR-YR Romanian contract rifles were made in 1940.

A. I have a BR bayonet in a CR scabbard, both dated Slovak 1940. There are far too many Slovak marked bayonets mixed in with Romanian contract bayonets for them to have been Romanian bayonets taken for Slovak use. They have to have first been Slovak accepted in 1940 and later taken for use with Romanian second contract rifles - and serial matched with those rifles. Added August 17, 2020: I discovered that there were no VZ24 rifles made on a Slovakian Army contract. Those few rifles seen with a Slovak firing proof were made at Považská Bystrica, Slovakia for small outfits like industrial guards. At that time Slovakia was made an independent country, thus they no longer used the Czech lion firing proof. This also shows that bayonets were made for Slovakia but the rifles were never made, which explains why the Slovak accepted bayonets were put into the Romanian second contract in 1940.

B. King Michael replaced King Carol on September 6, 1940. The King Michael crest replaced the King Carol crest on the rifles late in the AR-YR series. My King Michael crest VZ24 is a TR block. The crests would not have changed before King Michael took over.

Facts A and B bracket the second Romanian contract within 1940 or nearly so. A small number may have overlapped into 1939 and/or 1941.

The following was posted by ryg on August 19, 2020:

Romanian 2nd contract started out with 1939 year crests and went on to King Carol crests. The Romanian 3rd contract (signed April 19, 1940) started out with King Carol crests, then King Mihai, then 1940 year crests. The Romanians requested the use of 1940 after King Carol was restored. 1940 have been seen on early letter series 3rd contract for unknown reason. Have never seen a YR or XR series with any indication there was a crest, but maybe that's just me. Those two series were made in 1941.

Pušky a bodáky vz.24
ve výzbroji československé, rumunské a německé armády
by Jan Šmíd


Regards,
Bill

~~~

August 17, 2020
Per request, here are the crests:

1. VZ98/22 (and I suppose also VZ98): (E block s/n VZ98/22 rifles, all sold new to Turkey, had the ==BRNO== crest)
2. VZ23 and VZ23a: (also most Spanish Civil War VZ24 rifles, 1935 accepted)
3. VZ24 through mid 1933: (last s/n known 5892 D3) (known as ==BRNO== crest) (photo also has Iraqi jeem marking)
4. VZ24 mid 1933 through end of production 1938: (first s/n known 4033 V3) (known as lion crest) (some of the last 1938 production were accepted 1939)
 

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Sorry to drag up this old thread, but somehow over the years I have missed it. I have a VZ24 with the Czech lion crest, and a serial number of D9344. It has no Czech acceptance stamps, but it does have a Romanian MC on the bottom. I have always wondered about the date for this rifle. According to your post it would be 1937-1938 correct?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Sorry to drag up this old thread, but somehow over the years I have missed it. I have a VZ24 with the Czech lion crest, and a serial number of D9344. It has no Czech acceptance stamps, but it does have a Romanian MC on the bottom. I have always wondered about the date for this rifle. According to your post it would be 1937-1938 correct?
With a lion crest it can't be the old D block of VZ23 rifles. As a 1937-1938 D series it should not have a lion crest but rather a year crest. I can only assume it was an excess receiver with a lion crest that was used in the D series and was sold to Romania in the first (1939) contract. The date of the first contract is unclear; it may have been 1938 or 1939 or may have spread over both years. The first contract rifles were taken from inventory on hand, so early to mid 1939 is probable. The second (1940) Romanian contract production covered most if not all of 1940 and may have begun in late 1939, possibly even overlapping into the beginning of 1941.

My best guess is that your rifle was made in 1937-1938 and sold to Romania in early 1939.

See: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?915074-serial-numers-VZ-24-rifles
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Looks like ZB must have had more lion crest receivers than they needed for the Czechoslovak Army, so they threw some into the export rifles.

It's hard to tell if that D was stamped at the same time as the numbers or later. I'm leaning toward later but the alignment is very good. Does the D on the stock look like it is aligned well? And the bolt, if matching? If the barrel had a 9344 but no D, that would tell us a lot. With the C series it looks like they were in such a hurry that they stamped only the stock.
 

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Trying to figure out some stuff on Czech rifles. I collected them 20 years ago and got rid of most to acquire other rifles. I still have a few that were odd so I kept them. trying to figure out what exactly they are. they are in VZ24 stocks.
1: CSZ arched receiver stamp, dimpled out acceptance stamp, straight bolt, s/n 809 L3, no import marking., stamped 8mm on top of barrel between front barrel band, no side rail marking
2: CSZ arched receiver stamp, dimpled out acceptance stamp, straight bolt, s/n 4000 L3 all matching, no import marking., stamped 8mm on top of barrel between front barrel band, no side rail marking
3: 3 straight lined BRNO receiver stamp, no acceptance stamp, turned down bolt with stock cut out for bolt similar to German, s/n 13774, no import markings, side rail marked vz24
Any ideas?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Trying to figure out some stuff on Czech rifles. I collected them 20 years ago and got rid of most to acquire other rifles. I still have a few that were odd so I kept them. trying to figure out what exactly they are. they are in VZ24 stocks.
1: CSZ arched receiver stamp, dimpled out acceptance stamp, straight bolt, s/n 809 L3, no import marking., stamped 8mm on top of barrel between front barrel band, no side rail marking
2: CSZ arched receiver stamp, dimpled out acceptance stamp, straight bolt, s/n 4000 L3 all matching, no import marking., stamped 8mm on top of barrel between front barrel band, no side rail marking
3: 3 straight lined BRNO receiver stamp, no acceptance stamp, turned down bolt with stock cut out for bolt similar to German, s/n 13774, no import markings, side rail marked vz24
Any ideas?
The first two are VZ24 rifles made in 1935 for the Czech Army using old receivers. In 1938 they were sold to Spain for the Spanish Civil War.

The third one is a VZ24JC. It is a lightened version made for China but sold in 1930 to Brazilian rebels. "JC" is for "South China".
 

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I have a VZ24 . There seems to be NO "block" number. No "A", "E" or nada!
Just trying to find out more about the year of fabrication, where she worked, where she might have gone on vacation....stuff like that! : )
The rifle has been taken apart twice (in case I missed something the first time). No additional / useful info found. I did find these marks...


found this in the bolt cut-out on the stock.

2 digits covered up by tape...so as to not have it be too easy for the NSA monitors ( hi guys, waves obscenely ) : )
hey..what's with the little round holes? I've noticed them on this rifle in wood and metal in strategic spots??
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Please post photos of the full serial number on the stock, receiver, bolt, and barrel. Also post photos of the receiver ring and sidewall.

Even if mismatched, sometimes especially if mismatched, serial numbers tell a story. The only reason to not disclose serial numbers is if you stole the weapon or bought it from a thief.

A VZ24 does not have a cutout for a bent bolt, although a VZ24JC does. Full length photos of both sides of the rifle are needed. I have some ideas about what a serial number with a letter (not a letter/number) suffix might be, but the bolt cutout does not seem to fit.

More photos of the "little round holes" would be nice.

This is what is needed:
 

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Ok..but rats..more homework and picture taking to do. Damnn, seems me work is never done! ;)
Let me see if I have any in archive...but later..need more sleep
 

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I have 2 Vz 24's;
S/N 0147, no crest, matching bolt & stock
S/N 8459 N4, W/lion crest, E3lion37, stock no. 2816.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
S/N 0174 sounds like it is from a small contract, maybe South American.

S/N 8459 N4 was probably sold to Romania, although it might be a German used bringback.
 

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Added Pics of Mystery VZ24

Ok...ya'll asked for more pics of this mysterious (maybe slightly) VZ24... Trying to figure out Why there is NO block "identifier"...No "A", "B", etc.
what year of manufacture?
Here be a mess of pics.





 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Your receiver appears to have an R prefix which is not known. I suspect one of two things.

1. The prefix letter is actually P with a stray nick making it look like an R. P would be a known prefix for Romanian and other rifles. Your scope bases are Romanian. The stock number is not original, probably a replacement stock. The guy who marked the stock may have thought the P looked like an R. The stock has a letter suffix when it should have a letter prefix to match the receiver.

2. The receiver is heavily pitted. The original s/n might have been lost when it was cleaned up. The current number could have just been invented by someone. The siderail marking was also scrubbed in the cleanup.

Your bolt is FN and does not belong on a VZ24.

I think I am leaning toward #2 as the answer. The s/n on the barrel (under the handguard) might tell something.
 

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I have taken the rifle apart at least twice and have not seen a serial number on the barrel.

But, I'm willing to look again, specifically to re-check the barrel for a serial number...will try to do it tonight.
Why would somebody use a FN bolt on a Czech Mauser? Is it a problem that I should be concerned about?
It goes bang! Seems to fit.

Wondering if having the FN bolt reduces the accuracy..
 

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Found another Mauser in my safe. lol
Side of receiver marked: 'CESKOSLOVENSKA ZBROJOVKA, A.S., BRNO'.
S/N 4189, below it is an 'H'.
Top of receiver marked Mod. 98 and dou 45.
Bolt is matching w/turned down handle.
Also found a tiny 'shield' on the barrel.
Marked 'dot', below it 2 lines, then below that '13'.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Found another Mauser in my safe. lol
Side of receiver marked: 'CESKOSLOVENSKA ZBROJOVKA, A.S., BRNO'.
S/N 4189, below it is an 'H'.
Top of receiver marked Mod. 98 and dou 45.
Bolt is matching w/turned down handle.
Also found a tiny 'shield' on the barrel.
Marked 'dot', below it 2 lines, then below that '13'.
With an upper case H s/n suffix, it should be a post war VZ98N. The firing proofs should be lions, not eagles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I have taken the rifle apart at least twice and have not seen a serial number on the barrel.

But, I'm willing to look again, specifically to re-check the barrel for a serial number...will try to do it tonight.
Why would somebody use a FN bolt on a Czech Mauser? Is it a problem that I should be concerned about?
It goes bang! Seems to fit.

Wondering if having the FN bolt reduces the accuracy..
The original barrel s/n would be in line with the receiver s/n, close to the receiver. Remove only handguard to view.

Your rifle has been rebuilt and may not have the original barrel.

Your rifle may have come without a bolt or may have come with a straight handle bolt. It is very unlikely that an FN bolt would have been installed in Romania.

Headspace could be an issue but if your fired cartridge cases and primers look OK, it should be good enough.

The bolt does nothing except support the base of the cartridge. No accuracy issues there.
 
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