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Do you guys think the CZ52 is a more "stout" pistol versus the TT33 Tokarev? I've handled both, and am thinking about getting a 7.62x25 pistol. I have read that the Czechs loaded their 7.62x25 ammo a little on the hot side, and that the CZ was intended to use the same "hot" ammo as their SMGs...any truth to that? Which one do you prefer?
Thanks in advance for any responses.
 

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The 52 has always just felt clunky to me while the Tok has always felt slim and more handy.....though I do prefer the length of the grip more on the Yugo M57 than the normal Toks.
 

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I vote for the TT also. The 52 firing pins are brittle and could break unless you upgrade them. The decocker had issues also which could cause it to go bang when used.

And IIRC there is a weak spot on the slide that could crack if the ammo is too hot.
 

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Simple, TT. Search a bit for 7.62x25 pistols going Kaboom (not in a good way). You'll come across a number of CZ52s, but no TTs. CZs have a known weak spot next to the roller cam
 

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Rollers and stress..metal fatigue...when any firearm gets to be this old..indoctrinated uses?
Maybe abused, with ill fitted, new parts...
subjected to thousands of hot loads...straw breaking camels back.
any gun will find its last straw...Cz, 45, others seen photos..of wrecks..
Mostly history not written clearly?
over all those years of use or abuse....
is it the pistol just reaching its Expiation date? Or?
I like the cz’s owned many, haven’t seen a Tokarev busted up nor owned one.<>< dan
 

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I have been around a long time. Used to be a guy names Clark that was an engineer, and as a hobby bought and tested basically to destruction tokarevs and cz52s. Worked up his own hot loads, and fired them. He was really the first person I ever saw test both HARD, and he said the tokarev was significantly stronger, and that 52 barrels would break sooner and with hot loads. While his toks sometimes did fail, he praised them, said they took a ton more abuse. He also rechambered some toks for I believe 38 super, and said they could also take hot loads in that round.

I admire the 52, think it's really cool..... but just because something is more technical, has more parts, does not make it better. The rugged simplicity, fewer parts, much thicker barrel, and brick like build of the tokarev is king for me. I no longer have a 52, but have 3 yugos, 3 Romanians, 1 pole, 4 chinese, and waiting on a 5th chinese. Two current chinese are 9mm 213s, and one is an odd, somewhat rare 54T 9mm with slide mounted safety.

I saw Clark's research, amd now have almost 20 years with shooting toks.
 

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Word.
 

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Having had both the CZ52 and a TT, I prefer the CZ52 over the TT. The CZ52 just "feels" better than the TT. I sold the TT and kept the CZ52. I was able to find a spare CZ52 barrel in 9x19mm caliber so I now have a dual caliber CZ52.
 

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I own both, and my favorite is the M-57 Tokarev. Although the CZ-52 is in excellent condition and well maintained, it tends to be a bit on the fussy side. If it encounters a hard surplus primer, it'll take more than one tap to fire it. The Tok goes bang every time, no matter how hard the primer.
Years ago, before I learned the surplus ammo "spin test" trick, my CZ-52 would choke on a round in which the bullet wasn't seated perfectly. This created a helluva problem that required complete disassembly of the gun to get that round out. Whatta pain! I did the "spin test" on my stash of ComBloc surplus, and separated 106 rounds that failed the test. These stayed in a drawer for years until I bought my Tokarev. Then, just for the hell of it, I decided to try those rounds through the Tok. Every single one of them went bang, extracted, and ejected! That probably wouldn't have happened with the 52.
With today's commercial 7.62x25 ammo, my 52 performs flawlessly. However, I still wouldn't trust this gun to get me out of some future life-threatening situation.
On the other hand, I'd trust my life to my M-57 Tok. It eats everything I feed it without a hiccup.
I will say something in favor of the CZ-52. When resting my wrists on sandbags and carefully shooting for groups, my CZ-52 slightly outshoots the Tokarev.
 

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I'm happy to have a CZ52, and admire it's unique engineering. But I don't need to shoot it, and probably won't if there's any chance of damage.
I prefer the rugged simplicity and borrowed Browning design of my TT-types, and have shot several of them without problems, except for one M57 that needed some work on the add-on safety to keep the slide from jamming.
I do have a CZ70 that I've enjoyed very much at the range.

Happy Motoring, Mark
 

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Not much to add, except that I shoot Czech SMG steel case ammo in my M-57, on occasion. Pretty hot stuff, but no issues with the gun. I have a bunch of stripper clips left over, if anyone needs them.
 

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Why are so many who comment in this forum all agog over shooting hot sub machine gun ammo in a locked breach hand gun. If you have hot sub gun ammo to burn up why not pick up a PPs 43 c in semi auto and burn up that old corrosive stuff once and for all. I have a PPs 43 c pistol and the old ammo for it with hot loads, corrosive primers, steel cases and what looks like Arabic writing on the boxes. Each time I shoot that stuff I completely take down the PPS43 piece and clean it with hot soapy water and good lubrication there after. Out of the PPs 43 piece the bullets have muzzle velocity around 1700 fps. I have two CZ 52 pistols that I shoot only commercial 7.62x25 mm ammo in or my own hand loads and it works just fine for me. My Tok clone is a Chinese copy model 213 in 9mm luger. It is an accurate little pistol with about a 3 to 4 pound trigger pull and I enjoy shooting it using 9mm luger hand loads.
 

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Big C....sellier ballot is tested hotter than “most” of the 762x25 Military stuff..
We had discussions on this by our board experts?

ive got some older CZ ?that seems hotter.
i think because of flash and lifting of the barrel during recoil<>< dan
 

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"hot sub machine gun ammo"

In 7.62x25 Tokarev, there is no such thing. According to every manual*, info sheet*, box/packet/case label*, it was ALL meant for BOTH pistols and SMGs.
*I collect all of these, and have a rather good collection.
 

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Was waiting on you Johnny to speak!
 

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jonny c. ---- You apparently are much more knowledgeable concerning 7.62x25mm ammo than I am. I know the commercial version of that ammo is much milder than the older military versions. So that was my reason for referring to the old stuff as "sub machine gun". I sure would NOT fire that old ammo in my C96 Mauser pistol. In fact the reloads I make for the 100+ year old C96 is barely powerful enough to operated the action reliably and that is with new replacement springs in the old war horse. I'm just a conservative old goat and don't want to damage my older valuable and irreplaceable pieces it has taken me years to accumulate.

My PPs 43 c likes the hotter stuff and functions quite well with it. As I mentioned in my previous comment I'd never use the old ammo in my CZ 52 pistols.
 

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I own a m57 and a cz52. The m57 feels better as a shooter. But the cz52 is just cool. Both in appearance and unique mechanics. I vote buy both. My m57 has a pitted barrel but still shoots good. Easy to find minty cz52s. I recommend a c&r m57. Mine has the thumb safety and to me looks just fine with it .For ammo I’ve grabbed a few cases of surplus. 1 in 6 are duds though
 

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Go search this on The High Road... more than a few of both were exploded for the sake of this debate.
BTW, in pure pressure, it's a Tok, the CZ's weakness is the thin wall of the chamber over the roller cam indents.
Which holds up better in use... meh, enjoy them for what they are. There's also an interesting recipe for an 'accelerator' round using a 223 sabot in a .30 thats supposed to break 2000 fps out of a tok, as long as it doesn't explode.
 
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