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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello all! Once again I am a glutton for the worst condition basket case Japanese firearms that are out there that most collectors would toss in the trash. I was the lucky winner of this Proxibid auction out of CA: 20HO-32 TWO JAPANESE RIFLES | Art, Antiques & Collectibles Collectibles | Online Auctions | Proxibid

They were advertised as water damaged, and based on the condition of the surface rust, they likely are survivors of some of the recent wildfires. Based on their condition, I figured that hardly anyone would go for them so I managed to get the lot for a what I considered a deal for a pair of complete mummed Type 99's with a bayonet. Poor shape is an understatement, so I will let the pictures speak for themselves.

The first is a Kokura 21st Series Type 99, Intact Mum, it is possibly matching but the numbers on the entire bolt are unreadable Stock is in decent condition, and still has the cleaning rod & monopod! The Chrome lining definitely saved the bore, bolt face, & barrel from serious damage, so it may possibly be shootable with some work.

The second is a Tokyo Juki Kogyo 27th Series Type 99, Intact Mum & fully matching! The stock has some very interesting characters on it, but is heavily water damaged. The barrel & bore are in very poor shape, so I doubt it will be shootable short of a miracle.

The Bayonet is an interesting piece, as it has a very odd manufacture markings you don't normally see . I believe is made by Riken Kouzai, the blade is in excellent condition, and should actually clean up quite nice.

I plan to spend a lot of time over the Christmas with some bronze wool and oil, so we'll see what lies underneath the rust! Worst case they will make will make excellent wall hanger or display case guns.
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Neat history and worth the effort right there. I agree old "trashed" guns are fun projects sometimes. I've been a glutton for the IMA Nepal Cache Martini Henry's. I've cleaned up more than one, just for the challange, some artifacts might be too far gone to be safe firing guns, but like you said as a display piece you can't go wrong! You can attach the bayonet and they might even make good tomato stakes!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thank you both! I'm looking forward to bringing them back to life, so it's going to be a fun journey! Surprisingly, the blade of the bayonet is in excellent shape, so it will come out quite nicely once its cleaned up.
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I've cleaned up a few real rust buckets this year with good results. One was a Type 30 carbine (off eBay, haha!) and a rare "For Education" Jinsen Type 38. Not ones quite that bad, but I'll be interested to see the results when you're finished!

Wood Iron Rust Metal Still life photography


Iron Metal Pipe Steel Composite material


Metal Iron Tool Steel Composite material


Iron Rust Still life photography


Brown Grey Metal Iron Composite material


Iron Metal Shotgun Tool Hand tool


Iron Metal Steel Security Rust
 

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Hello all! Once again I am a glutton for the worst condition basket case Japanese firearms that are out there that most collectors would toss in the trash. I was the lucky winner of this Proxibid auction out of CA: 20HO-32 TWO JAPANESE RIFLES | Art, Antiques & Collectibles Collectibles | Online Auctions | Proxibid

They were advertised as water damaged, and based on the condition of the surface rust, they likely are survivors of some of the recent wildfires. Based on their condition, I figured that hardly anyone would go for them so I managed to get the lot for a what I considered a deal for a pair of complete mummed Type 99's with a bayonet. Poor shape is an understatement, so I will let the pictures speak for themselves.

The first is a Kokura 21st Series Type 99, Intact Mum, it is possibly matching but the numbers on the entire bolt are unreadable Stock is in decent condition, and still has the cleaning rod & monopod! The Chrome lining definitely saved the bore, bolt face, & barrel from serious damage, so it may possibly be shootable with some work.

The second is a Tokyo Juki Kogyo 27th Series Type 99, Intact Mum & fully matching! The stock has some very interesting characters on it, but is heavily water damaged. The barrel & bore are in very poor shape, so I doubt it will be shootable short of a miracle.

The Bayonet is an interesting piece, as it has a very odd manufacture markings you don't normally see . I believe is made by Riken Kouzai, the blade is in excellent condition, and should actually clean up quite nice.

I plan to spend a lot of time over the Christmas with some bronze wool and oil, so we'll see what lies underneath the rust! Worst case they will make will make excellent wall hanger or display case guns.
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Nice score on the 99's, do you intend to boil the metal parts in water first before you go to town with the bronze wool?
If you haven't already, watch Mark Novak on YouTube, he has some great gun resto videos.
According to Raymond Labar's book, your bayonet is indeed a variation D Riken Kourzai!
I'm sure everyone will look forward to the after pics!
 

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Oh good call. Mr Novak's method/advice is how I clean all my old rusty/grimey old war horses that need more than just a little TLC. Look up Anvil Channel on YouTube

I use an ultra sonic cleaner with a 10% shot of Simple Green cleaner. Boil/ultra sound for 1-2 hours. Pull out the metal, soft nylon brush the metal to get the big chunks of gunk off, then bronze wool any rusty bits. Then I soak all the metal in Non Dyed Kerosene. Leave it in there for 12-48 hours. Pull them out and wipe off...The results are stunning! Good luck and keep us Posted!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
I'm keeping Mr Novaks methods in mind when tackling this. However the first hurtle will be seeing if they will disassembled by soaking the screws in penetrating oil. If they are seized up good then some I'll have to use some creative methods for cleaning them up.
 

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I'm keeping Mr Novaks methods in mind when tackling this. However the first hurtle will be seeing if they will disassembled by soaking the screws in penetrating oil. If they are seized up good then some I'll have to use some creative methods for cleaning them up.
Focus on getting the action screws and bands loose first. Kroil is your friend here. You may need an impact driver to break them loose. Once freed from the stock the metal can be boiled or steamed to loosen the rest of the rust.

Bob
 

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Many years ago a WWII Marine vet I had met gave me a Type 99 (at the time I knew nothing of Japanese firearms so it was "an old j** rifle") He said his group was doing some mop up on some island (see - I said I knew nothing) and the ran across a huge bunch of rifles in a stream right beside a cave. He said the bolts had been pulled and everything thrown in the stream. He said after they cleared the cave some of them fished out a rifle and bolt until they found one that would fit and brought them home. He said they never bothered to dry them or clean them up or whatever.
Since I didn't have to "buy the story or the rifle" I have left it just like I got it - mostly relic like the ones in this post and it has a place of honor in my collection since it's the only one I have that I actually knew the vet who brought it home.
 

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Slightly off topic, but were the 90's imports from China import marked?. All I saw were mummed, but rusty. Didn't see import marks. I believe Paragon sold some.
Yes, they were import marked, rarely one was "missed", either by accident or on purpose.
At the time import markings could be quite small and were often weakly struck.
 

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I am a Kroil Oil believer. Soak it first(like screws and rust), for a long time like weeks. Then go slow.

Japanese rifles are probably the most tolerate of cleaning than any others I know of. Heaven forbit but 20 years ago I use Oil and fine steal wool but options today are more friendly.

I too am somebody who wants to make the relics as good as I can. The subject as to how, especially being wood and leather, will never end but hopefully we will learn.
 

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I'm also a convert to the boiling/steaming. I'd look up Mark Novak's conservation videos on youtube.

Long story short, you convert red active rust to black passive rust/bluing from the same bluing formula originally use (restored original bluing). Where ever the bluing is worn or pitted away, it's gone forever, but everything else gets set back into bluing.

Have done a 'parts gun' Dutch Beaumont to get the processes down. Now doing my Carcanos (fresh, greasy, dirty PW Arms imports) as also practice first, besides them needing it bad.

Good part is they come out as beautiful as possible, but also gets ALL the rust, if properly done. Easier to last a lot longer.

Watch videos, do it right, and just try it on some rusty parts. For whatever reason, all the Type 38 dust covers that come to me seem to have a brown finish that is slowly going to active rust. This turns them back to black where they still have finish.
 

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I'm keeping Mr Novaks methods in mind when tackling this. However the first hurtle will be seeing if they will disassembled by soaking the screws in penetrating oil. If they are seized up good then some I'll have to use some creative methods for clean

Younglron, Mr. Novak has just put out another excellent video off a resto on a very rusty K98k.
Don't forget the Angle Piss! :LOL:
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
So after a few hours in the garage, the first rifle is back to some semblance of glory! Surprisingly not kroil was needed on any of the screws, as they all came out with hardly any effort, so all the the rust was only concentrated on the exposed metal. There wasn't much finished left on the rifle, even underneath the wood, but compared to how it first looked it's a vast improvement! Before the rust set in, it was definitely a put together rifle, as the bolt was not matching, and the monopod is a Nagoya, along with the rear sight assembly with the AA wings. The chromed bolt face, bore, and barrel are all in excellent shape, and cleaned up mirror bright, so thank goodness for chrome lining! I will probably use it as trade fodder for my gunshow runs since all most local people seem to care about down here are intact mums over everything else haha.

Overall I am quite pleased how it turned out, stay tuned for the Last Ditch, as that one is getting the full boil treatment!
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