[Hienkel429]

Ok, I work as a sales manager for a major office supply company. I had an older man come into my store asking for me to give him a filing cabinet on his word, and that he would pay us back in installments. This arrangement is imposible with my and most companies. He implores me that he is honest, he's a police officer and that he'd pay us back. He tells me he is 40 yrs old and tells me he is just out of the service and got called back for Korea.
The man was 83. He was obviously was suffering some sort of mental dimensia. Here is the question. Among the pieces of id he pulled out of his wallet trying to convince me he was honest was a current concealed carry permit. Is there any safeguards to make sure older carrying citizens are mentally fit to hold such responsibilities?

We got a credit account set up and squared away after contacting his wife who handled everything and said her husband was not in his right mind.

Is it wrong of me to be highly concerned this man is actually carrying?

Ray

 

[tribunicus]

Ok, I work as a sales manager for a major office supply company. I had an older man come into my store asking for me to give him a filing cabinet on his word, and that he would pay us back in installments. This arrangement is imposible with my and most companies. He implores me that he is honest, he's a police officer and that he'd pay us back. He tells me he is 40 yrs old and tells me he is just out of the service and got called back for Korea.
The man was 83. He was obviously was suffering some sort of mental dimensia. Here is the question. Among the pieces of id he pulled out of his wallet trying to convince me he was honest was a current concealed carry permit. Is there any safeguards to make sure older carrying citizens are mentally fit to hold such responsibilities?

We got a credit account set up and squared away after contacting his wife who handled everything and said her husband was not in his right mind.

Is it wrong of me to be highly concerned this man is actually carrying?

Ray

are you North Korean? if not i dont think so. alzimers patients arent usualy violent, but they can get angry at their own confusion.

 

[GhostCat]

It's not wrong of you to be highly concerned.....It's a legitimate concern....Sounds like a potential "Accident" could happen in that scenario..

 

[Hienkel429]

Especially since he had been a police officer and had actually threatened (dead seriously) to bring another manager downtown because he wasn't helping him out.

Nothing North Korean about being concerned about someone mentally ill saying he had purchased two handguns in the past 6 months and holds a concealed carry permit.

 

[Clyde]

You missed the point tribunicus was trying to make, i think. Guy was a vet of Korea. T was suggesting that as long as you don't look like (or are) a North Korean and hence an enemy, he probably wouldn't shoot. Not you, anyway. Probably not.

But I'd suggest that it would be the reasonable and prudent thing to do to contact whoever the licensing authority in the Dark and Bloody Ground is (Stein - educate us) and let them know you have concerns and why.

 

[Mark Harlin Chaney]

Surely to God his wife has to know he has the permit. If you have her phone number you could start by voicing your concerns to her.

 

[Mike In memoriam]

Very sad situation.

I think you might have a responsibility to notify someone.
You were shown the paperwork in the course of conducting your business.

If the poor old guy drills somebody it could come back to haunt you.

I have an aunt who was sensible enough to give up her drivers lisence when she was still capable of making decisions.

 

[tribunicus]

Especially since he had been a police officer and had actually threatened (dead seriously) to bring another manager downtown because he wasn't helping him out.

Nothing North Korean about being concerned about someone mentally ill saying he had purchased two handguns in the past 6 months and holds a concealed carry permit.

sorry, i wasnt saying you were a north korean, its just that sometimes altzimers patients can remember very clearly old memories and may believe they are there. Since he was a Korean war vet He probably wouldnt shoot you unless he was having one of those times and you were wearing a north korean uniform, and even then he would probably just take you prisoner, and bring you back to his commanding officer for questioning.

 

[EricOKC]

Especially since he had been a police officer and had actually threatened (dead seriously) to bring another manager downtown because he wasn't helping him out.

Nothing North Korean about being concerned about someone mentally ill saying he had purchased two handguns in the past 6 months and holds a concealed carry permit.

He had to lie in order to purchase the handguns on question 11f, making it illegal for him to have purchased it.

http://www.ocshooters.com/Gen/Form-4473/ATF-Form-4473.htm

If you think a police officer should have differerent set of laws to obey than a citizen, I'd not worry about it.

 

[Ol Duke In Memoriam]

He had to lie in order to purchase the handguns on question 11f, making it illegal for him to have purchased it.

http://www.ocshooters.com/Gen/Form-4473/ATF-Form-4473.htm

He didn't lie....11.f. asks if you were adjudicated to be mentally defective....that means lawfully proved to be mentally disabled. He probably hasn't been...yet!!

 

[thebohunk]

Probably doesn't remember he has a permit.

 

[sgtsavage210]

Altzimers patients can be very scary. Yes I would think that a problem. My mother has it and has done some real cray stuff. I don't know what the right course of action is however hopefully the wife is smart enough not to let hubby pack in his condition.

 

[Oldjarhead]

But I'd suggest that it would be the reasonable and prudent thing to do to contact whoever the licensing authority is .

I agree with Clyde ..... Dimentia and guns are a bad mix !

 

[J.Stein]

Licensing in Kentucky comes straight through the local county Sheriff's office.

You may contact them as you see fit.

Here's are the problems though.

1. This man won't care/know whether he has a Ky permit or not. Having his license revoked won't stop him from packing if he chooses to, and
2. God forbid that a Jefferson County deputy goes out to his house

The upside for the rest of us though is that if his license is revoked before he goes on a rampage, we won't have to live with the possible repercussions to our own CDW rights.

His wife (or kids) needs to take the lead on this. Just remove his firearms. Simple resolution and the only one that works. Reminds me of taking the driver's licenses of elderly drivers who can't operate their vehicle. As long as they have keys and a car....they'll still drive.

 

[EricOKC]

He had to lie in order to purchase the handguns on question 11f, making it illegal for him to have purchased it.

http://www.ocshooters.com/Gen/Form-4473/ATF-Form-4473.htm

He didn't lie....11.f. asks if you were adjudicated to be mentally defective....that means lawfully proved to be mentally disabled. He probably hasn't been...yet!!

But it also states that if someone else is handling your affairs, as is wife is, then it makes you ineligible.

It's close enough for me to be concerned about the safety of others, and our founding fathers themselves would not have armed a person who was no longer mentally competent.

 

[RH7777]

The part about alzimer folks not being dangerous is not correct. What do you base that info. on?

It is contrary to everything I have experienced with old "alzimers" patients.

Several old folks in my friends family that I have cared for are very aggresive and hostile at times.

They seem to go from super sweet to extremely hostile in a heart beat.

I have personaly had to restrain an 86 year old lady that was extremely hostile during an episode.

I have also learned that different doctors diagnose the illness differently and I have never got answer on what, if any, the difference is between dementia and alzimers.

It would be a concern for me if any of the "alzimer" folks I have had contact with were armed.

I suspect it also depends on the individual that has the alzimers. Their background would be a factor on how dangerous they are. Combat vets with alzimers would be a concern with me, if they walked around armed.

In fact, I would not allow it, if I had to be around the armed alzimer patient.

I know of one that dearly loved his wife and was a devoted husband for over fifty years. In old age he developed alzimers and frequently threatened to kill his wife. Physically abusive towards her as well as verbally.
Before developing alzimers, he was a gentleman, kind and caring.

So the bottom line to original poster from my view. Yes, I would contact the authorities immediatly.

 

[Clyde]

RH7777, there isn't any difference between Alzheimer's and demntia, at least in one sense. Dementia is reduced/impaired mentational ability. There any number of causes for this, from "Etiology unknown" to trauma, to various diseases. Alzheimer's disease is a particular dementia, caused by a particular form of injury to the brain by deposition of abnormal material in it and the development of distinctive lesions in the brain. It is diagnosed mainly by symptoms and history, and (at this point) definitivly by necropsy following the death of the patient. Why this happens is at present unknown, which is why both diagnosis and treatment are - difficult and usually (in terms of treatment) of limited effectiveness.

BAsically, any case of Alzheimer's is a dementia; not every dementia is Alzheimer's.

 

[Hienkel429]

My gut was right... but here's the crappy part. I have to go to my bosses boss in order to take any action (even calling the wife) because it deals with the private affairs of a customer. As a big company they are PARANOID of anything like this situation. I think it may be a better addressed as a private letter to the sheriffs dept. Is this feasable J. Stein? I dont want to lose my job for doing the right thing but how would I feel if this guy went a little nuts and blew someone away? Would the sheriffs dept even do anything when faced with a letter? Who knows... Its just a crappy situation dealing with a man who has done much for our country and society.

Ray

J. Stein let me know what perhaps... Jeff county sheriffs might do?

 

[jjk308 In Memoriam RIP]

In Florida you can be denied, or have withdrawn, your concealed carry permit only if you are ajudicated as incapacitated or involuntarily committed to a mental institution. If certifed cured after such a committment at least 5 years must have elapsed.

The same requirement for ajudication holds for all other disqualifying conditions.

In this case it sure sounds like he'd be committed in a heartbeat, for his own protection, if someone wasn't around to take care of him. His problem is a lot worse than the typical memory lapses of early Alzheimers.

As for dealing with it, I agree with J. Stein. And his car keys really should go, too. I'm still hurting from the senile old coot who rammed me broadside.

It may be a problem for you but consider how you'd feel if you did nothing and he ended up hurting someone.

 

[Mark Harlin Chaney]

We (my family) had to take away my Father's guns and car keys. Sad day, but sometimes you have to do things that aren't pleasant. Truthfully of all the things that can happen loosing my mind is one of my worst fears. That and being paralyzed, lol have come close several times due to bike wrecks!