[pcanhot]

My heart aches for my country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTDmGt1Pafw

 

[ruskiegunlover]

what did marx say. Communism out of capitalism. We have THROWN AWAY our moral compass, by destroying religion, nad now are lost. I believe immoral or un-morally quided capitalism will fail. And frankly, it already has. Capitalism worked quite a bit better in this country when we were a bit more god fearing. Now we aren't, and we have reaped the benifits of it.

I am with you. We are in for quite a few changes. Our medias treatment of conservatism reminds me a lot of the bolsheviks treatment of the tsar. Conservatism is not perfect, and niether was the tsar: but both are quite a bit better then their opponents. The media and bolsheviks portray conservatives in a completely bs manner, and openly lie to the uneducated sheep of this country, and the sheep buy into it. Just like the bolsheviks in russia with the tsar. Frankly, the media and the left of this country have been waging a propaganda and almost communist revolution for sometime in this country. How evil conservatives are, how bad everyone has it under conservatives.....how much better everything will be under the new socialist president. Then someday the sheep will wake up and start wondering if their memory of the conservative days is lieing, or if things were really that bad?

 

[49204]

RGL quote. "Then someday the sheep will wake up and start wondering if their memory of the conservative days is lieing, or if things were really that bad? "

That day won't come. By then, they'll have been butchered.

 

[ruskiegunlover]

yeah, likely. Or like in Animal Farm, benjamin will scratch the ground with his hoof and question his memory.....then just except that it was long ago, and that squeeler and napoleon are always right, and want only the best for all animals.

'All animals are equal: but some animals are more equal then others'.

 

[Ben Gunn rev2]

Paranoid nonsense then and even more so now. The Russians never fed us anything in small doses least of all communism. Nor have they done anything to our economy, but conservative capitalism, allowed to progress to its logical conclusion, has.

 

[MauserboyM48]

We've been edging towards communism for a while.

Central banking, which has shown itself to be a miserable failure, is one of the pillars of communism. Yet so called "capitalists" and "conservatives" do not denounce it.

 

[hairball II]

Paranoid nonsense then and even more so now. The Russians never fed us anything in small doses least of all communism. Nor have they done anything to our economy, but conservative capitalism, allowed to progress to its logical conclusion, has.

I guess the spies and the groups they set up over here were just gentle little groups of deluded youth gathering for that harmless of human endeavors, picnics.

Considering what their stated intention of the day was is not leavened by the demise of the Soviet Union. Thought the Russians have tossed communism and socialism overboard as a fialed policy, that won't stop their stooges that were getting those ideals from colleges form trying to implement the same failed policy on this country.

Funny thing was, for all of Marx's call about capitalism leading into communism, towards the end, even he faced the fact that socialism and communism are and will continue to be failures as long as individuals remain, well, individuals. individuals as in free thinkers and liberty minded peolpe.

The Soviets did try to feed us LARGE amounts of communism, but, thankfully, our parents were smart enough to see through most of the lies.

 

[thebohunk]

Paranoid nonsense then and even more so now. The Russians never fed us anything in small doses least of all communism. Nor have they done anything to our economy, but conservative capitalism, allowed to progress to its logical conclusion, has.

Your taking what Kruschev said too literally.

When he said "we" he was not talking about Russians. He was talking about socialists, marxists, communists, and progressives.

 

[49204]

Hairball II "The Soviets did try to feed us LARGE amounts of communism, but, thankfully, our parents were smart enough to see through most of the lies. "

But the parents screwed the pooch and allowed the Commies into the educational system, where they brainwashed the students, and got elected to school boards. Now we see where that led us.

 

[pzjgr]

Hairball II "The Soviets did try to feed us LARGE amounts of communism, but, thankfully, our parents were smart enough to see through most of the lies. "

But the parents screwed the pooch and allowed the Commies into the educational system, where they brainwashed the students, and got elected to school boards. Now we see where that led us.

Yeah a commie trained and indoctrinated socialist in the White House....and infiltrated in the Congress...

 

[John Sukey In Memoriam]

Actualy communism has been tried and FAILED in this country many times before 1900. Anybody seen any new Shakers? Dunkers? and a lot of the other sects that are now no more than footnotes in history? I guess the Pilgrims were the first communists.

 

[thebohunk]

Hairball, your assessment of Marx is correct. It(communism) would work well with cattle.

I've always felt the most asinine thing about Marx's ideas was the suggestion that nations should be led by those LEAST qualified to run the show.

 

[49204]

Of all the Marx bunch,

....you have to admit that Karl was funnier, even, than Harpo or Groucho. Though the joke was a one-liner, and dry, dry humor....

 

[MauserboyM48]

Actualy communism has been tried and FAILED in this country many times before 1900. Anybody seen any new Shakers? Dunkers? and a lot of the other sects that are now no more than footnotes in history? I guess the Pilgrims were the first communists.

Guess again

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.

The ones in bold are the ones we have done, in one form or the other.

 

[drifter542]

I don't see that you people have any alternative than to stage an armed uprising and to take back the country.

I shall watch with interest!

God and Freedom!!!

 

[hairball II]

I don't see that you people have any alternative than to stage an armed uprising and to take back the country.

I shall watch with interest!

God and Freedom!!!

Plenty of alternatives, still. We have elections in two years to change the face of the Senate, and as much damage as Obamination will do, there will be limits to how much he can do, I pray.

You are from the UK, drifter? Then your history has taught you the same thing our Civil war did. They are savage, nasty last ditch efforts.

There is always damage you do, damage you hope and pray you never have to do to another human being so that at night you do not have to hear your opponents high-pitched, begging shrieks in your ears.

I do not want that. I do not want my children to be reduced to that, either.

An armed uprising is what happens when every last, good alternative has gone terribly awry.

God willing, we are a LONG, LOOOONG way form that aweful alternative. Till then, vote, educate, discuss, vote, pray, write, debate, vote, donate, all the things that you exhaust before you even give dim acceptance of that dark possibility.

By God, and for Freedom, uprising is the very, absolute LAST thing to be considered.

It is still not too late.

 

[pzjgr]

Plenty of alternatives, still. We have elections in two years to change the face of the Senate, and as much damage as Obamination will do, there will be limits to how much he can do, I pray.

You are from the UK, drifter? Then your history has taught you the same thing our Civil war did. They are savage, nasty last ditch efforts.

There is always damage you do, damage you hope and pray you never have to do to another human being so that at night you do not have to hear your opponents high-pitched, begging shrieks in your ears.

I do not want that. I do not want my children to be reduced to that, either.

An armed uprising is what happens when every last, good alternative has gone terribly awry.

God willing, we are a LONG, LOOOONG way form that aweful alternative. Till then, vote, educate, discuss, vote, pray, write, debate, vote, donate, all the things that you exhaust before you even give dim acceptance of that dark possibility.

By God, and for Freedom, uprising is the very, absolute LAST thing to be considered.

It is still not too late.

Honestly, intellectually, I don't know if I can agree....as much as I'd like to.

Lets face it, government as it is, is completely broken. They talk a good game about doing the Peoples will, but the reality is the gov from the local level right to the federal level only does what benefits them. Look at the original stimulus package....what, like 95% of the American public came out against it, and it was passed overwhelmingly. Why? Because it was a fait accompli deal between the gov and big banking.

There were lots of numbers thrown around, and I honestly don't know what is correct, but I believe them when they say if they took that 700 billlion dollars and divided it up evenly to each INCOME TAXPAYING American, each houselhold would've received something like 30k....let me tell you, that 30k in my pocket would've done more for me than their BS "stimulus" package did.

Or instead of sending checks, how about a complete tax holiday until September? How much would that have stimulated the econmony and made peoples lives better?

That would never happen, because there is no upside to helping average people in the US, for the gov, they want to help those who will give them cushy consultancies AFTER they leave their "public" service.

Hey, try this, go to try and see your "representative" wanna bet you won't get anywhere near him?

Do you really think the gov is "By the people, for the people" anymore? When the gov started, people going into it were basically regular people...farmers, businessmen, etc, that went to Washington (or Philadelphia) for a few months of the year, did the Peoples nusiness, and returned home to their REAL jobs. Now, the gov is a career path.

And honestly, I don't think the dynamic can be changed without DRASTIC measures. Say we get to 2010, and for some reason the American people smarten up (not likely) and overwhelmingly vote in Repubs....do you really think it will change things? Hell, Repubs are just Democrat light anymore, but regardless, even if you have a good person go in, the system quickly corrupts them, and if it doesn't it will destroy them.

Not to mention it is quickly coming to a point where its going to be the haves against the have nots (or more correctly the lazy, will nots). Do you think the rapidly growing segment of society who would rather have those who actually work pay their way with the willing help of liberals socialists in government want to see an America where hard work means success again? No way, they want their free stuff.....

Sadly, I really don't see a way of actually changing the direction of the country and returning it to what the Founding Fathers envisioned without some sort of second civil war....of course we could just stay the course, and watch our liberties and the ideals of the Founding Fathers slowly eroded until we no longer recognize the country. The frog in the cool water in the pot syndrome....

 

[hairball II]

Where are we right now?

We are the edge of an economic abyss. Thanks to useful idiots wanting this 'stimulus' package, wanting unions and higher minnimum wage we should be seeing a complete finacial collapse from which both parties may ened up out on their ears by a pissed off unity of people solidly behind a more practical, workable principle that would be closer to the Founders. All those banking interests will be hard pressed to use money they no longer have. Once those bankers are going, with hat in hand, to the voters, the people, begging to be allowed to bank the dough, you will see a shift.

People have become lazy. Why do you think I am such a devoted social darwinist? People need to feel the crucible of real torment before they can appreciate what they have. They have to EARN the fruits of their labor, that way they will fight harder to keep it. What has, sadly, deveolped, is a class in America that believe they are entitiled. They are entitled because they exist, because someone insulted their garnd pappy, because they skin color is different. ONce they stop getting the free money they have, like rats, they will eat each other, thus clearing up a lot of good real estate for quality, socialable, freedom-loving and hard-working citizens.

Fighting will get us nowhere, as most of the folks are to stupd and lazy to do anything other than run in cicles going "squeek, squeek!". Not enough unity, not enough focus of principle, too many idiots will get in the way of the fight.

Right now, fighting HAS to be the last option because once it degenerates to that level we will lose. It will be a glorious fight, one that will make our future children weep with pride, but a losing battle, nonetheless. Like any true Spartan, I will fight, if backed into a corner, but it really, and for all practical purposes, is the last option.

 

[pzjgr]

But, Hairball, let me ask you this, given what you just said, do you really think elections can or will change things? You yourself just spoke about the "entitlement class"....this keeps getting larger and larger, and as it does, the country is doomed. The old chestnut about once a democratic society realizes it can vote itself a living, democracy is doomed is true.

So as far as I can see, the only way to change the countries direction is to either completely revamp government by one means or another, or somehow get rid of this entitlement class whose voting is destroying this country....

Personally, I think this country has started the slow spiral down the toilet, and it won't be stopped. Thanks to socialist/communist indoctrination in the public school system, which just exponentially expands that entitlement mentality, and the lack of people with the intestinal fortitude to do what must be done to stop things....just not enough people in this country think Freedom is a realistic principle anymore. Too many lemmings....

In many ways I agree 100% with you...for example...

"People need to feel the crucible of real torment before they can appreciate what they have. They have to EARN the fruits of their labor, that way they will fight harder to keep it. What has, sadly, deveolped, is a class in America that believe they are entitiled. They are entitled because they exist, because someone insulted their garnd pappy, because they skin color is different. ONce they stop getting the free money they have, like rats, they will eat each other, thus clearing up a lot of good real estate for quality, socialable, freedom-loving and hard-working citizens.

Fighting will get us nowhere, as most of the folks are to stupd and lazy to do anything other than run in cicles going "squeek, squeek!". Not enough unity, not enough focus of principle, too many idiots will get in the way of the fight."

Exactly what I am saying, so the question remains, how do you stop this spiral? That is where I am coming from when I say I believe there is no way to stop it without purging it completely, one way or another.....

 

[hairball II]

Some people think my optimism is pretty cynical, but I like to note that I just observe human nature.

Yes, the entitled are growing. you have scaberous little worms, like benn, that cheer for debilitating unions and higher minimum wages. All these thing do is remove people from the economy. It creates a tougher economy. That spiral down the toilet is NOT a bad thing, for all practical purposes. At some point, people, the entitled, will be forced, by THE NATURE OF THEIR FOLLY to either sink or swim. many will sink, and I won't shed a tear for their loss. Those that swim, that make it will be stronger, bolder filled with inspiring stories of survival in the abyss.

The ex-soviets are having a VERY hard time weaning themselves of govt, as, unlike the US, they never knew liberty. We Americans have a history of seeking liberty. We have faltered. We have played an toyed with the folly of ideals that took us away form our roots, but we have roots. Just needs to be some rela suffering to put it all in perspective.

JJK made a note that during the Great Depression, many communities gathered together, found each other, grew closer as individuals, returned to a more fundamental society where the simple values of hard work and education were honored. The weak were culled, the strong gathered, and people endured.

I understand your call to arms, I just feel, in my oddly optimistic fashion, that once rthe choecks stop ciming, and the entitled burn their own houses down and freeze to death in the winter, those that vote in the new crop of leaders may build back something better.

If all else fails, there is always that blaze of glory.