[sksguide]

Hi
I am new to this SAA board and i have an old Colt SAA cavalry that was modified by a frontier gunsmith. it has been cut to just under 4 inches and nickel plated. the trigger has been made really nice. My question is about the marking used by the old gunsmith to cover over the US marking on the frame.
this colt was obtained by a family in deming NM in the 1920s in this condition. (the grips are a newer replacement)They put it in a drawer until i obtained it about 20 years ago.
it is in the 94,000 serial range and dfc marked and all parts match.it appears to be one that a solider took home and had made into a 'gunslinger' pistol.the work is all top notch. so here are some pictures, can anyone help me and identify the gunsmith from the coverup over the US marks on the frame.

 

[Clyde]

Can't help with who dunnit - but whoever it was, was very skillful. What are those grips? Bone?

 

[sksguide]

grips are older stag horn. they were put on by a friend about 25 years ago.

 

[nothernug]

Interesting and very nice. The old timers weren't shy about tinkering with their guns for sure. That or else "bubba" as a species has been around longer than we might have thought.

I had a Colt navy that had had sights added to the barrel long ago. Their had been a plain V notch rear sight dovetailed into the barrel about 1/2" from the end of the top flat and at the front dovetailed in was what looked mostly like a "long rifle" low and long front blade sight. Maybe it hadn't worked out because the rear sight had then been filed off leaving only the dove tail base. The work had been done long ago as the patina was uniform all over. Neither was it some recent fake because it was something my Dad had picked up in the 40s either before or after WWII (He was in '43-45). I no longer have it and it was only a wall hanger. My best guess would be that it was done by a wanna be pistol fighter or perhaps for a fancy shooting show.

 

[sksguide]

THANKS FOR YOUR THOUGHTS.
this is hardly a bubba job. the ejector rod had to be cut very precisely so that it looks just like an original only much shorter . It shoots better than any SAA i have tried .this gun came out of new mexico and was obtained in the 1920s by a family in deming nm not far from the border. wyat earp was still alive as well as elfugo baca. family bought it from a cowboy. these folks then and some even now were not wanna b's. I wonder from the simple floral pattern over the US (to hide it) if it was done in mexico, and yes they had top notch gunsmiths there. there are a number of take home SAA that ex soliders just took and had the US marked covered over in some way to hide US ownership. in tombstone az the famous gunsmith "hart" placed 2 hearts over the US, for example. just wondering if anyone was familar with this overstamp.

 

[Grizbar]

First post here as well. You have a beautiful heirloom. The screw heads, the finish, are in amazing shape. The Nat'l Firearms Museum might have an ID for that smith marking/cover up. As you mentioned the ejector rod and housing were shortened by about 5/8"-3/4" so the step that fits the frame hole would have to have been re-established. The housing to frame fit wasn't done by a Bubba. Almost all examples have the bbls. flush cut to the unaltered housing so whoever did this had some skill. Don't even allow this pistol in the same room with Hoppes #9 or any other solvent that could creep under the nickel and cause it to flake. Thanks for sharing this great old pistol and good luck.

 

[nothernug]

I'm new to this forum too. I was just noticing there's a button or screw on the front of the frame below the cylinder pin. Is that what holds the cylinder pin in place? Is that typical to the 1st generation Colts then? I have been trying to determine whether my Dad's Colt SAA is a 1st or 2nd generation. Dad's Cylinder pin release is on the left side of the frame. Is that the tell? The serial number is plain numbers and no letters.

 

[Clyde]

I'm new to this forum too. I was just noticing there's a button or screw on the front of the frame below the cylinder pin. Is that what holds the cylinder pin in place? Is that typical to the 1st generation Colts then? I have been trying to determine whether my Dad's Colt SAA is a 1st or 2nd generation. Dad's Cylinder pin release is on the left side of the frame. Is that the tell? The serial number is plain numbers and no letters.

View attachment 536266

From the serial number (260xxx) on your Dad's, it is decidedly First Generation (a collector term, not Colt's). The SAA started out with a retaining screw in the front of the frame to keep the cylinder pin in place, and c. S/N 144,000 changed to a spring-loaded transverse catch. Your gun, except for the finish and chambering, is most decidedly a gun from the first decade of the 20th century (late 1904, probably).

 

[nothernug]

Thanks. I am not trying to hijack this thread, It just seemed the place to ask the question.

 

[dogngun2]

Beautiful work, whoever did it...Just wondering when it might have been done.

mark

 

[sksguide]

this SAA was obtained by a family in deming NM in the 1920s. they acquired it this way. so it was done sometime before that. they never used it. i shot it for the first time since they got it when i purchased it in the late 80s.

 

[mauser9]

From the serial number (260xxx) on your Dad's, it is decidedly First Generation (a collector term, not Colt's). The SAA started out with a retaining screw in the front of the frame to keep the cylinder pin in place, and c. S/N 144,000 changed to a spring-loaded transverse catch. Your gun, except for the finish and chambering, is most decidedly a gun from the first decade of the 20th century (late 1904, probably).

Good info Clyde.

 

[Clyde]

Good info Clyde.

Thank Norm Flayderman - that is where I got that information.

 

[Ramblin Gambler]

I'm new to this forum too. I was just noticing there's a button or screw on the front of the frame below the cylinder pin. Is that what holds the cylinder pin in place? Is that typical to the 1st generation Colts then? I have been trying to determine whether my Dad's Colt SAA is a 1st or 2nd generation. Dad's Cylinder pin release is on the left side of the frame. Is that the tell? The serial number is plain numbers and no letters. View attachment 536266

His is just a black powder frame. As was said, they did that originally and changed to the pin you see on your gun when they started making them for smokeless powder.


To the OP, were you shooting black powder loads? I have one a few years older than yours, and some people have told me I can use cowboy action loads. I'm dubious, but I don't know enough about reloading to make any argument better than that it doesn't seem like a good idea.

 

[sksguide]

i want to thank everyone who looked at and the few who had comments regarding the likely origin of the conversion and engraving on my SAA. i was glad to share with the thousand plus who looked. that is what i expect these boards to be for.
since the engraving is sort of generic, it could have been done by many fine frontier gunsmiths. so my quest to find the one who did it is sort of impossible, without something unique about the work done. i was hoping someone would see something unique and known, but alas... not to be.. as noted by several, the quality of the cutting down and nickeling and engraving is excellent. thanks for looking. if anyone has any last thoughts, have at it, otherwise it looks like all have said what they thought.
by the way, it is a great shooter. it has a fine light trigger and deadly accurate. (i have a modern cylinder i use even with light or black powder loads).

 

[Clyde]

Given that the gun was built probably in 1883 (that 94K S/N), sksguide, using modern cylinder and sticking to mild (BP or Cowboy Action) loads for shooting is a very good idea. I wouldn't shoot it a lot if it was mine.

 

[mauser9]

Can you tell me if there is a cavalry marking stamped on this gun. Maybe stamped by Colt or other armorer . was at a gun show recently and came across table where guy was selling old Colt SAA. Had one with wooden grips and 71/2 barrel I believe. Wanted a whopping $7000 for it but what a beautiful gun. Don't recall exact date of manufacture but had documentation from Colt assuring it being genuine. Best wishes.

 

[Clyde]

Can you tell me if there is a cavalry marking stamped on this gun. Maybe stamped by Colt or other armorer . was at a gun show recently and came across table where guy was selling old Colt SAA. Had one with wooden grips and 71/2 barrel I believe. Wanted a whopping $7000 for it but what a beautiful gun. Don't recall exact date of manufacture but had documentation from Colt assuring it being genuine. Best wishes.

It is military inspected (OP says it is dfc stamped) and received, which would constitute a "a cavalry marking" in my book. There is no specific "cavalry" marking, but most of the early SAAs were bought for and issued to cavalry units initially - they were the main users of handguns in the US Army of the time.

 

[sksguide]

the U.S. military issue colt saa, like the one that started this thread, were marked U.S. after the patent dates on the left side of the receiver. civilian saa were not marked U.S. this example had the engraving cover over the U.S. in order to conceal the fact it was probably stolen ot taken home by a calvary man. The calvary marking you may be thinking of is the U.S. right after the patent dates on the frame. they are no longer visible on this example because they were engraved over to conceal the fact it was military issue.

 

[mauser9]

Thanks sks guide. Thought that might be the case. One I saw at gun show had long barrel and walnut grips. What a beauty. Guy let me handle it even though he was asking $7000 for it. I guess it is always good to leave a gun like this in its original condition.