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A BeginnersLearning Curve

We have all been there, the first flush of collecting, wehave bought a book (maybe) learnt a little and know it all!. We go to a fairand look around, 1874 Gras, got that, 1866 Chassepot got that, and off we wenthappy in our knowledge leaving a treasure trove for other more knowledgeablecollectors. I bought an Elite Diamante marked 84/98 in near mint condition,because the guy behind me was so anxious to have it and it showed, to me it wasanother 84/98, the only difference was the black sheen on the blade, later Ilearnt, and the bargain I got is still part of my collection.
Lets go back to the Gras, we all know it, humped back, brasspommel, T shaped blade, common and cheap. Last year I finally got a 1878 Navy(Kropatschek as most know it), only to find it wasn’t and to date I still haveno idea as to what it is, Stephens book shows a copy but mis-identified as theKropatschek. Digging it out to write a little article and hope foridentification from one of my more learned peers, I realized that I had morethan one 74 style bayonet, and wondered how many times I had passed one up asjust another…..
View attachment 2335346


My “Gras” Collection (from left to right) as you may see iton a sales table, how many can you identify without picking it up? I have onlyincluded full length blades this time.
1) Ifyou guessed a chromed Gras! you are partially right, except this one has beenmodified to fit on the Vertelli rifle, and from the wear patterns on it, it wasmounted more than once. I believe this one may be a UVF modification from someperiod after 1920.
2) A normal Gras? no! this one has been modifiedby adding a threaded washer in the muzzle ring to be used a telegraphers earth,the tip has also been shortened to allow for better penetration in earth withoutthe tip breaking or bending.
3) Astandard (though not in best condition) 1874
4) An1878 Naval, the blade I was after that started me to look more closely.
5) Notan 1878 naval nor a Peabody, note the lack of muzzle ring adaptor from the 78,and the odd angle of the spring and the normal length hilt compared to aPeabody. The pommel has not been shaved so it is not a modification of astandard 1874.
6) RumanianPeabody, straight back to blade, and Styr marked.
7) Another“not a Peabody”, the hilt is the right length, but the pommel is too short,there are no cross guard pins, the frog stud is a tiny acorn rather than a loop,and the spring is a different shape from all the others. The only marking isxxarlie, not sure that that is as I have not come across that marking before.
8) Belgianvariant of the Gras made by AlexCoppel
9) Grasmodified by Chile, has a shaved pommel and modified muzzle ring
10) UVFGras modified to fit the GEW 88 by shaving the pommel, modifying the muzzlering and lengthening the locking bar.
There are some missing, the Greek conversions, the Germanconversions, and the shortened ones, either official or un official. But evenwith something this common there is a lot to learn. If anyone can identify thetwo unknowns I would appreciate it.
 

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I have parted with the one Romanian Peabody 'Gras' that I had, but I think that the grip part was longer on that than is found on the regular Gras, and so I think longer than the 14 cm we see on this one at original post, which looks to me to be the regular size for a Gras-fitting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I have parted with the one Romanian Peabody 'Gras' that I had, but I think that the grip part was longer on that than is found on the regular Gras, and so I think longer than the 14 cm we see on this one at original post, which looks to me to be the regular size for a Gras-fitting.
Comparison with the Romanian Peabody.

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Looks like same shaped tang attaching, pommel area and rivets, so most real the bayonet is a Steyr production for a Kropatschek M1878 rifle most real a export version.You should exactly examining the area where is normally the Steyr logo so the left side of blade about 2cm above crossguard?b.r.Andy
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Looks like same shaped tang attaching, pommel area and rivets, so most real the bayonet is a Steyr production for a Kropatschek M1878 rifle most real a export version.You should exactly examining the area where is normally the Steyr logo so the left side of blade about 2cm above crossguard?b.r.Andy

No hallmarks on the blade bayonets.
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Thanks for adding dimensions with caliper, certainly the MRD is min 17.5mm, the logo could be was there and were cleaned out, but this is already not possible to confirm,on export pieces could be the Steyr logo was not stamped on blade too.b.r.Andy
 
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