[maximvikers]

Went out to the range this morning to try out some reloads for my Webley pistols. They tested out great. Took along my Star super and ran about 20 rounds of SB largo dated 1977 over my chronograph. Results high 1273 low 1250. Is this normal? I thought the 9mm largo ran in the mid 1100 range. Thanks

 

[jimm2003]

This is a bit hotter than the published data on that vintage SB (see http://www.9mmlargo.com/cartridge/chrono/ammotest.htm). It is about the same as my hotter hand loads.

 

[Los Adaes]

Does anyone know, was the Santa Barbara ammo intended for pistols or submachineguns?

 

[Bob In St. Louis]

By the early 1970s, Spanish military was changing out the Star Modelo Supers and Astra 400s for the Star BM varients (9mm Parabellum) - I am assuming ammo loaded in 1977 was intended for submachineguns.

 

[Los Adaes]

Thanks Bob.

 

[STAR]

In fact, by early 70's there was no astra 400 on duty on any military unit. Big amounts of STAR SUPER models were converted by STAR factory to 9P for the Army, until it was replaced by mid 80's for the LLAMA 82.

The late Santa Barbara (1977 and 1981) 9 Largo ammo was made just for SMG's, there were still many Z45 and Z62 models in service. I don't think that any good condition model A or -better- model M would have any trouble by shooting this ammo, but definately it's not good for the A400.

 

[Los Adaes]

Thanks for the details Jorge. Sadly the 77 and 81 Santa Barbara are the most common and available now. I think I will find a source for the 9mm Steyr just to save wear on my Modelo Super and my Llama Extra.

 

[maximvikers]

Thanks for the imput guys. You answered my next question. Which was can I still use this stuff.

 

[MGMike]

Went out to the range this morning to try out some reloads for my Webley pistols. They tested out great. Took along my Star super and ran about 20 rounds of SB largo dated 1977 over my chronograph. Results high 1273 low 1250. Is this normal? I thought the 9mm largo ran in the mid 1100 range. Thanks

I chronographed Largo headstamped "SB-T 77" some years ago out of both an Astra 400 and a Star Super A, both with "as new" barrels. Average velocity measured at 10 feet was about 1215 fps in the Astra and about 25 less in the Star, most likely due to its shorter barrel. The Astra barrel is 5-15/16"; Star 5-1/8". CCI Blazer in the Star gave 1200 fps, so these figures are all in the ballpark. That's not as high as your results, but it could just be a matter of the accuracy of my or your (or our) measuring devices. I used a PACT IV with sensors 24" apart. I cannot say how accurate it is in absolute numbers, but it gives me a good basis for comparison between loads.

Either way I would not place much reliance on the tests shown on the Largo website. They did not even correctly measure the barrel lengths, so how much confidence can one have in their reported velocities -- especially when, in some cases, the Star's averages shown are higher than the Astra's? It's possible, I suppose-- but only if the Astra's barrel was shot out.

I did not find any particularly significant difference in velocity between the 1977 Largo and the older corrosive loadings. The latter averaged about 15 fps less, easily explained by deterioration of the propellant from age.

In any case, 127+ grain bullets driven at 1200 fps. are almost in the .38 Super class, and not to be underestimated.

M

 

[dogspit]

Now I'm Confussed as Heck

After reading the last few Threads I'm totally confused!!!!!!!

So if I may ask a question!!

I have a 1950 Star Supero Model A 9mm largo pistol (Heck I think I'm so CoNFUSSED)

I want to purchase 250 rounds of 9mm largo ammo

NOW WHICH SHOULD I PURCHASE?

1977 from Sillico
1994 FROM CCI
RELOAD MYSELF
1981 from Ammo to Go
1954 from who ever?
Un-known date from glove compartment of retired Angola State Pennatentry Guard
Granny's Attic and Junk Shop


1125 FPS 1200FPS 1000FPS 15fps what thu?

or should I just throw the gun at an invader? LOL

Seriously I need some advice/

Thanks

Fred

 

[MGMike]

If you are not going to shoot it in an Astra 400, but only in a Star, I would (all else being equal) buy the latest-date non-corrosive Largo you can find, or modern non-corrosive 9mm Steyr, which also works well. I would not buy corrosive because the older Largo has primer cups that are less ductile and tend to crater or perforate, and cleaning out the firing pin channel in a Star slide is a lot of work.

Or you could use .38 ACP or .38 Super if it will feed and function in your gun.

I have not had good experience with CCI Blazer Largo in Star pistols. The extractor groove in the aluminum case is too narrow for reliable extraction.

M

 

[dogspit]

Wow what???

Hey it's Confused again!

Are you saying I can shoot 38 super in my Supero A Star Pistol is that correct?

Most everybody said that's a NO NO!

Now do you see why I'm confused??

Thanks and let me know by explaining if it's ok PLEASE

Fred

9mm largo test info

1977 dated boxes: cartridge cases are mid 1970s dated, mostly 1977. The boxes aremarked "No corrosivo, no erosivo" and the cartridges are non corrosive, Berdanprimed. Packaged 25 per cdbd box, 2000 rds per sealed steel can inwood cs.

AmmoDate Firearm mean avg fps 5 shot Hi/low spread
1962 1921 Astra 1110 fps 1097-1128 fps 31 fps
1962 Star Super 1084 fps 1055-1134 fps 79 fps
1962 Destroyer 1249 fps 1238-1267 fps 29 fps
1962 Z-45 SMG 1137 fps 1103-1172 fps 69 fps
1969 1921 Astra 1167 fps 1153-1188 fps 35 fps
1969 Star Super 1170 fps 1163-1181 fps 18 fps
1969 Destroyer 1243 fps 1231-1293 fps 62 fps
1969 Z-45 SMG 1199 fps 1177-1224 fps 47 fps
1977 1921 Astra 1133 fps 1105-1161 fps 56 fps
1977 Star Super 1147 fps 1134-1162 fps 28 fps
1977 Destroyer 1240 fps 1198-1270 fps 72 fps
1977 Z-45 SMG 1167 fps 1139-1197 fps 58 fps

Is your head spinning too?

 

[MGMike]

No, my head's not spinning.

But then I am ignoring all those "test results" that you cite. I've already said that they don't make any sense to me. Forget them, and you'll be better able to cope with the problem.

While the standard Model A is probably stronger and more forgiving than the Super A, my personal opinion is that either model (when in sound condition and properly fitted) is adequately strong for use with the currently available NC Largo.

Because NC Largo is loaded very similarly to .38 Super, the only real issues concerning the use of .38 Super in Star Model A or Super A pistols are 1) whether your pistol is in mechanically safe condition, and 2) whether your pistol's bolt face and barrel hood were opened up to reliably feed and function with semi-rimmed cases (some are, some are not).

You say your pistol was made in 1950; I would not recommend that ANY ammunition be fired in a surplus pistol 58 years old until it has been carefully examined by a competent gunsmith. Many Star pistols are military surplus, often used hard and put away wet, and frequently found with replacement parts that may or may not be correctly fitted.

Without disassembling and examining your particular pistol, I can't answer either of those questions for you, nor can anybody else on this forum. Pay a gunsmith for his knowledge and experience, and let him tell you.

M

 

[Mastiff]

Hey it's Confused again!

Are you saying I can shoot 38 super in my Supero A Star Pistol is that correct?

Most everybody said that's a NO NO!

Now do you see why I'm confused??

Thanks and let me know by explaining if it's ok PLEASE

Fred

9mm largo test info

I don't see any problem firing 38 Super in a Star A or Super A if the pistol was set up to handle the rim. Twentyfive years ago the 38 Super was considered the proper round to use as a replacement for those who couldn't get 9mm Largo.