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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
These Mauser rifle (all 8x57 IS) came to Germany in the early 1980th together with FN Bayonetts or reworked Arisaka T30 bayo with handle for K98.

All are delivered with original frog. You can see the difference between the two variants (FN style and T30 blade).

My rifle was produced in July 1936. There are 11 years difference between the stamp (25–7). Many of the Mauser rifle I´ve reported in Germany has the US-sling, because the KMT was supported by US. All are in very good condition and got a new barrel (by hand written note on the barrel).

The rifle were build by several Chinese arsenals. There is not much know about the arsenals.

A friend wrote me about Chinese arsenals:

Some of these arsenals also produced bayonets hence we can also find the same markings on the guard or ricasso.

But the entire Chinese arsenal history is extremely complicated because of the civil war and Japanese invasion. A good example is the Mukden. It was originally found by a warlord. When the area was conquered by the Japanese they changed the name to Mukden. After the Japanese surrender, the communist take hold and changed the name again. To make things more complicated, when the KMT loss in the war, they will retreat to another area and build a new arsenal using old machineries moved from the original arsenal. This new arsenal is usually called the same name. This makes sense because the original arsenal did not exist anymore but the new one is using their old machineries. But for historical research this is a nightmare. The Nanking arsenal can be in Nanking, in city one, city two, city three and finally across the sea in Taiwan ! If you own a rifle with Nanking arsenal stamp, it will be extremely difficult to do any research. Furthermore, many of these records were lost. And this is on the KMTside. On the Communist side they usually named an arsenal by number. So arsenal A originally found in A city had moved to B city & then to C city under the KMT but when the Communist took over it was called No.56 later moved to another city called No.61. But the retreated KMT army rebuilt arsenal A in D city ......I better stop before you get crazy !!!


Wood Road surface Asphalt Brick Brickwork


Brown Rectangle Wood Automotive exterior Bumper

made in July 1959 (KMT)

Wood Handle Door Wood stain Line

Here are 3 differend maker of Arisaka blades (original frog of KMT)
Hand tool Wood Kitchen utensil Tool Metalworking hand tool

Comparison of FN and Arisaka blade

Wood Line Wood stain Hardwood Metal

Wood Rectangle Composite material Office supplies Metal

FN bayo with original frog
Font Wood Natural material Auto part Publication

the eagle mit "N" is the German nitro proof mark

Wood Bumper Trigger Audio equipment Shotgun

Wood Publication Material property Book Metal

This marking is usual for the rifle I´d seen and the meaning is: "NEW BARREL"

Font Cylinder Book Tints and shades Wood

produced in July 1936
 

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The writing on the barrel said "KuoJun" or National Army, it was a common practice to mark firearms with these two characters during the Civil War period.
I've done some research on the Arsenal History:
I believe you can get it from Amazon Germany.
 

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Thanks for the bayonet info, very complicated subject!

So is the crest stamp on the rifle some derivation of the 11th Arsenal (Gongxian, Gong Factory/Shop) that Bin Shih discusses in his book that Firearms cited above? The date and overlapping diamonds look like the 11th Arsenal's stamp (page 37 of Bin Shih) and the rest of the symbology looks like the later Gongxian-produced Chung Kai Shek rifle pictured on page 111. Is that correct?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the bayonet info, very complicated subject!

So is the crest stamp on the rifle some derivation of the 11th Arsenal (Gongxian, Gong Factory/Shop) that Bin Shih discusses in his book that Firearms cited above? The date and overlapping diamonds look like the 11th Arsenal's stamp (page 37 of Bin Shih) and the rest of the symbology looks like the later Gongxian-produced Chung Kai Shek rifle pictured on page 111. Is that correct?


I´ve no idea about this! Thank´s for these informations!! I bought this rifle years ago. I saw only a few more rifle with different crests. I´ll take more care about them ...!!
The bayo are offered not often and nearly all with Kokura blade. The other blades are very rare!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
The writing on the barrel said "KuoJun" or National Army, it was a common practice to mark firearms with these two characters during the Civil War period.
I've done some research on the Arsenal History:
I believe you can get it from Amazon Germany.

Liquid Product Fluid Cosmetics Glass bottle


Some days ago I read an article in a German journal from 1983, that the meaning of the two characters is "new barrel". Is this a true information? I thought, the barrel were changed after the civil war and the rifle stayed in a depot in Taiwan?
Attached a screenshot of the photo of the article. There they write about the meaning as "Army State" ... free translated "Army of the Republik of China". True?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The writing on the barrel said "KuoJun" or National Army, it was a common practice to mark firearms with these two characters during the Civil War period.
I've done some research on the Arsenal History:
I believe you can get it from Amazon Germany.

I can buy it for 40€, but first I´ve to check, if I bought it before or not. I´m not sure! ;-)
 

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It just said National Army, you can certainly expand it to Army of Republic of China because it is Republic of China's Army.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The writing on the barrel said "KuoJun" or National Army, it was a common practice to mark firearms with these two characters during the Civil War period.
I've done some research on the Arsenal History:
I believe you can get it from Amazon Germany.

Hi,

thank your for this advice. I´ve ordered the book, got it this morning and took a short look inside.
Very interesting!!

Cheers
fj
 

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Note about the "Guojun" mark: The Nationalist Chinese Army was originally known as the National Revolutionary Army (國民革命軍 - Guómín Gémìng Jūn) and it was the army of the Guomindang (Nationalist) Party. A constitution was enacted for Nationalist China in 1947 and the military services were placed under the national government. The army was then known as the National Army (國軍) of the Republic of China. Actually, Guojun (國軍) could just as readily be translated as National Armed Forces as it could refer to all the military services. Those markings were no doubt added sometime after the constitution went into effect.

Those very nice condition ZZS rifle and bayonets were surely surplused from Taiwan.

The double diamond arsenal logo for 1936 would indicate the rifle was actually made at Gongxian. The stamps on the leather show it was made by Arsenal 60 in July, 1948.

The page from the German reference is a little confused about the swastika logo. The crests with the swastikas show the rifles were made at Arsenal 21 at that time located near Chongqing. The crest with the star logo is for Arsenal 1.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The writing on the barrel said "KuoJun" or National Army, it was a common practice to mark firearms with these two characters during the Civil War period.
I've done some research on the Arsenal History:
I believe you can get it from Amazon Germany.

Thank you so much for this advice!!!
It´s a wonderful book with many new information for a very cheap price!!
 
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