cavalry swivels
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Hello Josh :
Have just read both the old and new editions of the "Japanese Type 99 Rifle" books and it basically says the same thing, that use fo the "D" rear sling swivel ( cavalry ) has been reported randomly in the No and 1st series by Nagoya Arsenal. Nothing is mentioned regarding that feature on early Kokura Arsenal production.
Since usage of the "D" with the reported quick disconnect sling end causes buttstock damage, this is a sign if the presence of the cavalry loop is original to a particular rifle.
Also the extreme angles of the early Kokura monopod band loop made strees on the sling and loops possible. Many rifles with original cavalry loops still in place have very worn and sloppy loops.
As you can see based upon personal observations is all I can give you, you find a rifle with the "D" loop is not a common item, you have to look at it and see if it seems original to you. That takes experience from having seen originals. Having access to major collections and being able to see all these features will give you an eye to what is real or a put together of which there are quite a few.
If the price of a rifle in question is based upon the presence of a "D" loop to the seller be leery, that means that he is quite knowledgeable of its uncommoness. Not only must the rifle in question be a No or 1st series, but there must be evidence on the stock of usage, otherwise there is doubt of originality.
Vicasoto
Have just read both the old and new editions of the "Japanese Type 99 Rifle" books and it basically says the same thing, that use fo the "D" rear sling swivel ( cavalry ) has been reported randomly in the No and 1st series by Nagoya Arsenal. Nothing is mentioned regarding that feature on early Kokura Arsenal production.
Since usage of the "D" with the reported quick disconnect sling end causes buttstock damage, this is a sign if the presence of the cavalry loop is original to a particular rifle.
Also the extreme angles of the early Kokura monopod band loop made strees on the sling and loops possible. Many rifles with original cavalry loops still in place have very worn and sloppy loops.
As you can see based upon personal observations is all I can give you, you find a rifle with the "D" loop is not a common item, you have to look at it and see if it seems original to you. That takes experience from having seen originals. Having access to major collections and being able to see all these features will give you an eye to what is real or a put together of which there are quite a few.
If the price of a rifle in question is based upon the presence of a "D" loop to the seller be leery, that means that he is quite knowledgeable of its uncommoness. Not only must the rifle in question be a No or 1st series, but there must be evidence on the stock of usage, otherwise there is doubt of originality.
Vicasoto
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6,342 Posts
The so-called "D" sling swivel pattern appears randomly on 20th Series T-99 rifles. Have never seen one on a later Kokura T-99.
C/
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15,721 Posts
The Kokuras with the D swivel are much fewer than the Nagoyas.
I would not pay any more for such a rifle, price should be determined by the usual mum, match, wood finish and presence of rod, pod, and/or Dust cover, and overall condition.
The D swivel is not rare enough to command a premium, IMO.
I would not pay any more for such a rifle, price should be determined by the usual mum, match, wood finish and presence of rod, pod, and/or Dust cover, and overall condition.
The D swivel is not rare enough to command a premium, IMO.
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15,721 Posts
Josh,
You will pay a premium price for a premium rifle, not just for the swivel. To most sellers, the swivel is unknown. Like I said, the swivel pales in value when compared to the overall condition, mum, matching, wood, rod, pod, and dust cover!
You will pay a premium price for a premium rifle, not just for the swivel. To most sellers, the swivel is unknown. Like I said, the swivel pales in value when compared to the overall condition, mum, matching, wood, rod, pod, and dust cover!
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2,005 Posts
FWIW, here's my 20th...
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Ed- Yes, mine is assembler numbered... 3x,xxx range. I don't agree that a collecting focus is needed for everyone. I collect what I like and when opportunity knocks. My first Luger was a group of about 4 rigs from WWII (4yrs ago). The seller was asking about 500 for each. They were righteous and while I had never field tripped one before, I quickly added them to the collection. This rifle is beautiful and well priced.... a no brainer to snag...
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244 Posts
Formerly Richigan, could not stay with that name, don't really care if you know my full name. I agree that series 20 and 21 do seem harder to find in decent condition with all the goodies. Never took my series 20 apart before I sold it, did not want to mess with the sling, as seen in pictures. Mine had the cavalry swivel, and was serial #28455.
I have a new set of questions about these early series Kokura rifles? Both my series 20 and 21 have no numbers on the bayo lugs, or the extractors. The series 20 does not have a number on the safety either. The numbers on the series 21 safety are done so you really cannot read them. My series 22, 23 and 24 all have numbers on the bayo lugs. Also the bolt numbers on both rifles are really lightly and poorly stamped. Also had a T38 series 26 without the numbers on the lug and safety.
Is this a common occurance? Would like to hear from other owners of these rifles.
I have a new set of questions about these early series Kokura rifles? Both my series 20 and 21 have no numbers on the bayo lugs, or the extractors. The series 20 does not have a number on the safety either. The numbers on the series 21 safety are done so you really cannot read them. My series 22, 23 and 24 all have numbers on the bayo lugs. Also the bolt numbers on both rifles are really lightly and poorly stamped. Also had a T38 series 26 without the numbers on the lug and safety.
Is this a common occurance? Would like to hear from other owners of these rifles.
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