Gunboards Forums banner
1 - 10 of 10 Posts

·
Silver Bullet Member
Joined
·
4,190 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Good evening. I have a thread around somewhere about a couple of piece of junk rusty 1891's that have actually provided me with one really cool rifle and there are still possiblities for the other but the bolt really needs buffed and polished to make the safety more user friendly. Now I have gathered the dies, a bushel basket of brass, a few hundred .268 160 grain bullets which look to be about 2 feet long (I am going to share some of the riches with a member) and I have powder and primers. So..........anyone want to offer some reloading suggestions? I do intend to acquire some cast bullets also. I was a bit taken aback by the concave case rim. Never saw that before. I had a whiskey tango foxtrot moment when examining them. All in the tumbler now. I never owned a Carcano, never shot one, couldn't even spell it. But now I am an owner. Suggestions please.:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,063 Posts
I still have a carbine my sister found in a barn at a farm they bought. It was rough so I made it into a deer rifle. It was already missing the bayonet. I used a Savage 340 side mount and an old Weaver short tube scope. Heated the bolt handle to bend it and bought 2 boxes of Hornady loaded ammo. Shot a deer the first year. Here is the important part. I have seen and heard rumors that Hornady used the wrong bullet in their early loads and there are cases of guns coming unglued. I have run a box and a half through mine with no ill affects, and it is in rough shape. Probably nonsense, but has anybody else heard or seen this? When I was in high school my Buddy use to buy surplus ammo that had the FMJ bullet pulled and they pressed a soft point back in. He killed deer with his too. Not bad little rifles.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
10,117 Posts
Correct, the Hornady .268" 160 grain bullet IS Oversized.
The Italian Bore- Groove relationship is the 1890s pattern... .2665 /.267" Grooves, .256/.257" (correction)Bore/ Lands; Bullet, "cylindrical" flatbased, open lead,
.264" shank, .262/.260 taper to RN outside mouth of case....so the bullet base " upsets" into the rifling grooves on firing ( Base
Upset Obturation) which gives the bullet rotation, but without the excess friction of a full sized ( groove -sized cylindrical) bullet a la Hornady. BTW, Hornady has
Terminated .268" , and now has
a .2665-.267" projectile.

For the Carcano rifle in worn state, this disparity of Groove/ Bullet diameter is still important in that a .268 bullet will cause increased chamber pressure
I.e. possible damage to a rifle from 75 to 130 years old, and through from 1 to 4 major wars, and several smaller ones.

Use .264" Flat base jacketed ( No Boat tails) or 160 gn Lead cast, .265-266" sized diameter RN. Norma 156 SP RN are also excellent .264,".

I use PPU cases, pulled military 6,5 Carcano Projectiles (162 gn RN) and around 30 grains #4895H.( vary according to performance. Follow reloading guide). With Cast projectiles, use a recommended fast powder,
E.g. medium pistol or shotshell powder.
Doc AV
Down under.
 

·
Silver Bullet Member
Joined
·
4,190 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I understand. I have been down that bore size thing for years with Mosin Nagants. The length of these things has to provide more friction. I am going to mike them to see if what is on the old Grafs sheet is accurate or not. It will all be well. I have not slugged the bore yet. .266 cast bullets are easy to find also. Matterns cast bullet bible recommends 16 grains of 2400 for cast bullets as a "one size fits all" remedy for military rifles. It has worked well for me over the years in all sorts of stuff.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wolfspotter

·
Moderator / Silver Bullet member
Joined
·
8,086 Posts
These are the loads I have been using in my Moschetti Modello 1891 and 1938's

Hornandy .264 160 gr. 'Interlock' Round Nose, Soft-Point, Flat Base
Norma .264 156 gr. Round Nose,Soft Point, Flat-Base
Original military .266 163 gr. Round Nose, FMJ, Flat-Base
2.995 Overall Length

IMR 4895 .. 32.6 grs.
Hodgdon Varget ... 32.6 grs.
IMR 4064 ... 33.1 grs.
Alliant RL 15 ... 33.3 grs.
IMR 4320 ... 34.1 grs.
IMR 4350 ... 40.1 grs.
IMR 4451 ... 37.2 grs.
IMR 4831 ... 39.5 grs.

These all simulate the original load of 2160 FPS / 660 MPS of 35.2 grs. of Solenite powder

All reloading data contained on this post is to be use at your own risk and any failures, mishaps resulting from this data will not be directed towards me, this group or boards, again these are be “USED AT YOUR OWN RISK", this should be used as a guide to help develop your own loads. I am not responsible for any accidents for using this reloading data.
 

·
Silver Bullet Member
Joined
·
4,190 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
These are the loads I have been using in my Moschetti Modello 1891 and 1938's

Hornandy .264 160 gr. 'Interlock' Round Nose, Soft-Point, Flat Base
Norma .264 156 gr. Round Nose,Soft Point, Flat-Base
Original military .266 163 gr. Round Nose, FMJ, Flat-Base
2.995 Overall Length

IMR 4895 .. 32.6 grs.
Hodgdon Varget ... 32.6 grs.
IMR 4064 ... 33.1 grs.
Alliant RL 15 ... 33.3 grs.
IMR 4320 ... 34.1 grs.
IMR 4350 ... 40.1 grs.
IMR 4451 ... 37.2 grs.
IMR 4831 ... 39.5 grs.

These all simulate the original load of 2160 FPS / 660 MPS of 35.2 grs. of Solenite powder

All reloading data contained on this post is to be use at your own risk and any failures, mishaps resulting from this data will not be directed towards me, this group or boards, again these are be “USED AT YOUR OWN RISK", this should be used as a guide to help develop your own loads. I am not responsible for any accidents for using this reloading data.
Thank you. I put two different micrometers on several of the bullets this afternoon and depending on which micrometer I get a smidgen over .265 or a smidgen over .266 (once past a thousandth I use smidgens as a unit of measurement cause I can't read it). Owning several Swedish mausers I do have an assortment of bullets also, including the 156 grain round nose which my Swedes absolutely love. It will be fun giving them a whirl.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,022 Posts
I understand bore sizes vary. Slugging the bore is probably a wise first step. I did not understand that and went ahead. My gun was shooting 12" groups at 50 yards with PPU. If PPU shot reasonably I would have called it quits. MY gun, the one I am shooting, was made in 1915. I also been shooting another which I will not mention. That second, I shot without checking things out first. Anyway, I am loading 0.268 bullets. (Full 0.268 - not Hornady) It seems to be right for my 1915 TS. It could be a disaster waiting to happen in another gun. I dont know.

There is one guy at our club who got the shotgun pattern with his Carcano and called it quits. By all means, start with conventional 264 bullets. Try PPU factory ammo. If neither is working for you. Stop and figure it out. There is enough people saying Carcanos wont shot. They will shoot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,071 Posts
Carcano's do not have a .2665 / .267 groove and .264 / ,265 land barrels . That would be only .001 if rifling . The bore sizes did change some through the years production . Early rifles as large as .257 L - .270 G [ a .266 cast bullet would be poor in one of those ] to the late rifles as small as .255 L - .266 G barrels . It is not a myth that the early big Hornady big bullets can cause problems . The main problems are the Land size and the gain twist . There is a good report on the problem on these boards .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,022 Posts
There is the 270 bore situation for one thing. The 257 can wear down for the other. I think that was the idea with the tall rifling. Or to put it another way, in 1892, things were still being worked out for smokless powder and jacketed bullets. That goes for everyone. Although, I have not seen this problem with Swedish 6.5 from the same time period. I think it was 6 or 12 months or more that I came asking for load info. I though, I was blown off. I believe now, there is not one bullet fits all or one load for all. I like a mild load. Milder than posted. It maybe (maybe, I dont know) necessary to drive certain bullets harder to get the base to expand into the grooves on some guns. Not one bullet for sure, not one load either. Not talking about a ladder of charges to get that last fraction of accuracy. That is not even a concern here. Not for me.

I have a 38TS and expect hat to be a "from scratch" effort.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
10,117 Posts
Carcano's do not have a .2665 / .267 groove and .264 / ,265 land barrels . That would be only .001 if rifling . The bore sizes did change some through the years production . Early rifles as large as .257 L - .270 G [ a .266 cast bullet would be poor in one of those ] to the late rifles as small as .255 L - .266 G barrels . It is not a myth that the early big Hornady big bullets can cause problems . The main problems are the Land size and the gain twist . There is a good report on the problem on these boards .
Correction to bore / lands size noted ....DocAV
 
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top