[Doby]

I have asked a few collectors, and even posted this mark at the Middle Eastern Forum. So far no one knows its meaning. It is on an otherwise unremarkable No 4 Mark 1 (oops). I have attached more photos in hopes of finding out what language it is in. It looks rather like Arabic to me, But for all I know it could be Sanskrit or a host of other languages. has anyone seen this before, and what do the characters mean/ there are no other non-English marks on it. I really enjoy shooting this one and frankly it may be my most accurate Enfield.

Added this information: I took the rifle to a Palestinian friend and he says it is definitely NOT Arabic. He thinks is it Hebrew. I have tried comparing it to the Hebrew alphabets I found online, but there seem to be sevral stylistic differences in the letters. Do any of you believe the stamp to be Hebrew? I have some Mausers that were used by Israel, but all have the Start of David on them. I have found none on this rifle.

Thanks very much for your help.

Doby Pilgrim
Santa Fe

 

[brit plumber]

Its a No4 Mk1 with a No.1 rifle magazine.

I don't recognise the markings but they do look similar in depth and form to the Egyption ownership marking.

 

[Doby]

Thanks very much, brit plumber. I had a great time with it today. Took my son shooting, and my last shot was at 601 meters. 1 foot by 1 foot. I ran the rear sight up properly, waited for a lull in the wind, and busted it almost in the center. lol, pretty good for a cheap old Arab Enfield, I thought. Whomever used it took very good care of the bore. It's almost a mirror inside.

 

[Doby]

I have added more information in the OP. Anyone here read Hebrew?

Thanks!
Doby

 

[shooter-x]

I have added more information in the OP. Anyone here read Hebrew?

Thanks!
Doby

I don`t read Hebrew but I believe you are right, its Hebrew & YES its a No4 Mk1 & its a No4 Mk1 magazine & its a nice looking old Enfield !.............

 

[hershmeister]

Not hebrew. Looks like Farsi to me

 

[Doby]

Thanks, gentlemen! Oh goodness, now I need to find some Iranian friends to meet with my Jewish and Palestinian friends to look this rifle over. Sounds like I may also have to get a Turkish friend involved just in case...This is going to be fun!
------------------

Edited to add that I compared the stamp to a couple of versions of Farsi, then Turkish, and Sanskrit. I could find no match of any single letter or character. Since Britain controlled about a quarter of the globe in 1945 (last date I can find on the rifle) I guess I am going to have to do a lot of research or get lucky on this one. I'm going to start by walking next door to show the rifle to my Indian PhD next door neighbor. What a great country!!! If I lived in NYC this would be easier. Except they might not smile on me as I carried a rifle around to the neighbor's house., lol!

 

[Spasm]

I would agree with the other posters...I would say Farsi or possible Dari...if you google those alphabets there appear to be some similarity in some of the letters.

Nice rifle...

 

[Doby]

Spasm, there is some similarity to Farsi and Dari, but not quite there. I have checked out Urdu, Pashtun, a couple of Pakistani alphabets, and Sanskrit as well. Even Burmese and Malaysian -so far. I bet I will find a former British colony that it fits in. Lol, I once researched a Confederate cap for 4 years. Found the man who owned it eventually. Complicating the search is also the possibility that the characters may not be letters at all. Lol, what if they are numbers? Ah well...

It is a special rifle to me because of how accurate it is. I have a couple of very nice ones that I thought were good shooters until I picked up this rifle on a whim - for not very much money at all. This one shoots rings around most of my other Enfields, and even both my treasured and pretty immaculate Lithgow and Long Branch won't outshoot it. At 400-600 meters it's right in there with my Swiss 96/11 and a couple of my M-39s. So, I have to find out who used it after the Brits. It is telling me to. (Don't worry, I'm not having a Son of Sam moment, lol.)

 

[brit plumber]

It may also be upside down.

 

[Doby]

OMG thanks! I never thought of that at all!

Doby

 

[brit plumber]

OMG thanks! I never thought of that at all!

Doby

Agh yes, I have quite a few Enfield revolvers where the same marking on different guns are in similar positions but different orientations.

 

[krinko]

It's "No4 Mk1" engraved by a pantograph which has jumped out of the pattern.
I have seen such before, but nothing this brutal.
Look closely at the latter half of the mark and I believe you will see the "k" and the "1".
The nature of the marks indicates a rotary bit.
-----krinko

 

[Doby]

It's "No4 Mk1" engraved by a pantograph which has jumped out of the pattern.
I have seen such before, but nothing this brutal.
Look closely at the latter half of the mark and I believe you will see the "k" and the "1".
The nature of the marks indicates a rotary bit.
-----krinko

Well, tomorrow I was going to post that I had given up looking at the alphabets of former British colonies and protectorates. I have flipped the image, posted it above the original, and then gone through each alphabet line by line to absolutely no avail.

The mark is definitely made by a rotary bit.

This would make sense. The rifle's markings in this area do not say "No. 4 Mark 1" or have any other markings in this area. It shows no signs of Middle Eastern or Indian use. There is no "Ishapore Screw", and as I said before, the bore is pristine. Looking at it with a jeweler's loupe (yes, I have done that, lol) the bit didn't deface the original marks.

So - krinko, you may well be correct. Thank you. I spent hours looking for a language that apparently isn't there.

Would this rifle have just gone on through the process of being issued with that mark in that condition? It was apparently made in 1943 and then went back to the arsenal (or was at least re-stamped) in 1945. Is this what the "BZ" over the serial number indicates?

Hmmm. A mistake. I've posted elsewhere that I like mistakes on firearms. I guess this qualifies. You're right, this mark - if a pantograph error - is brutal.

 

[krinko]

"Would this rifle have just gone on through the process of being issued with that mark in that condition?"
Yes, easily. They were still in a hurry to get the Number 4 rifle widely issued in 1943.

"Is this what the "BZ" over the serial number indicates?"
"BZ" is the original serial number prefix. I can't see the "45" marked on the buttsocket well enough to say, but the Brits used a flat topped "3" which is easy to mistake for a "5" if it isn't clear...so the "45" might be "43".

.....krinko

 

[Doby]

Thanks again, krinko. Even under strong magnification, I cannot be certain if it is a 45 or a 43. With this combination of marks and at your suggestion I will presume it's a 1943 rifle.

Truly I appreciate it. I believe it sat for a long time (about 6 months) at my LGS because every one including me believed it to have Middle Eastern use. They said I was the first person to actually pick up the rifle at the store. When I saw the bore and the rest of the overall condition, I bought it instantly. Nobody else had even opened the bolt, lol. After shooting it the first time, I fell in love with it. If it had not been for that screwed up mark, it would not have been there for me to buy it.

So now I like it even more, and I think I will take it to the range again tomorrow.

All the best,
Doby

 

[Neil]

If there was nominations to be handed out, then I propose Krinko for the best observation & solving of a question I have ever seen since joining. But need to add the well known quote just in case there has been a better one...
(I could be wrong ))

 

[limpetmine]

A contract was issued in 1941 to convert 100,000 No. 1 magazines to the No. 4 style. These are not terribly un-common.

Its a No4 Mk1 with a No.1 rifle magazine.

I don't recognise the markings but they do look similar in depth and form to the Egyption ownership marking.

 

[Doby]

If there was nominations to be handed out, then I propose Krinko for the best observation & solving of a question I have ever seen since joining. But need to add the well known quote just in case there has been a better one...
(I could be wrong ))

I will second that nomination! To use another well-worn phrase, he thought outside the box of the question to get to an answer.

 

[jrhead75]

Good eye indeed, Krinko...nicely done.

I cannot be certain if it is a 45 or a 43. With this combination of marks and at your suggestion I will presume it's a 1943 rifle.

'BZ' is a 1945 Maltby s/n prefix, not '43.