C&R question

C&R Logging

It is my understanding that a CRFFL has to log in everything, even if it was not purchased using the CRFFL per se.

The way I understand it, C&R purchases made prior
to obtaining your C&R license or after (without using your C&R)
should be entered in your bound book.
(unless you've kept good receipts of those not acquired with the license)
That's my take on it.

Randy45 said:

If you have a C&R license and buy a C&R qualifying gun from a gunshow without using the license, does the purchase have to be recorded in the gun log. I got my license about two months ago. I have been collecting for two years now and already had made purchases way before I even knew about getting the license. What is my obligation about recording the previous purchases as well?? I have read the paperwork sent with the license but didn't see this covered or missed it.

Click to expand...

First things, first, you don't "use" an FFL (C&R or otherwise.) You are either licensed or you are not licensed. If you are licensed, you need to follow the regulations. As a C&R licensee, you are required to log all C&R firearms' acquisitons and dispositions.
So, since you're licensed, and since you acquired/disposed of a C&R firearm, you need to log them. If you're disposing of a C&R firearm you acquired before you were licensed you simply log it in to yourself as being acquired prior to thee FFL and then log it out to the transferee. (And of course, if the firearm isn't a C&R firearm you do not log it.)
HTH

Bill has pretty well summed it up. I keep a copy or two of my license in my wallet for "emergencies", and a spare sheet of bound book in the car for immediate recording of relevant details.

Like Bill said you don't "use" your license. If the good Lord drops a C&R firearm into your lap while you are licensed then you log it in.

I agree with Bill. I have logged even the guns I had prior to my getting my 03 in my bound book and as stated above I just made a note in the corner that states acquired prior to obtaining license for each of those guns.

I don't understand why you would log a non C&R handgun or longgun in your log book. I only record C&R transactions and nothing more or less.
Frank

I log only my C&R firearms.

You are only required to log in C&R acquisitions and dispositions while you have your 03 license but some people find the book a good place to keep (even thought they are not required to) a list of all their firearms along with all relevant information in case there ever is a problem. Also a lot of license holders keep a duplicate log book off site, I keep a copy at the office in case there ever is a fire or other problem at home.

Remember that the theft of firearms from a licensee is a federal crime and thus would probably get more attention than just a regular home breakin.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that the ATF did not permit duplicate log books.

cpw said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that the ATF did not permit duplicate log books.

Click to expand...

Well, there's neither law nor regulation that prohibits multiple sets of bound books/log, but more to the point of your question, why would they even care if you have multiple logs, as long as they're legitmate? Plenty of FFLs keep multiple books, one of the more prevalent exaples that comes to mind is the FFL/SOT keeping one log for Title I firearms, and another log for Title II/NFA devices.

Something to bear in mind for those C&R FFLs who log all firearms, C&R or not, in the smae book: As an FFL you're log is liable for inspection once a year. If you log your non-C&R firearms in your C&R log, do you really want to hand over for examination a record of everythign you own? Or worse, run the risk of confusing the issue to your legal detriment from an uniformed/over-zealous agent out to make a name for himself? If you absolutely must keep a log, keep one for the BATF with only your C&R firearms' A&Ds (as you're required by law to do), and another for yourself with all firearms' A&Ds.

Have a new posting here. I see the others are quite old. Can a C&R (or just a citizen?) send a 160 year old revolver to an unlicensed gunsmith? Thanks

Anchor53 said:

Have a new posting here. I see the others are quite old. Can a C&R (or just a citizen?) send a 160 year old revolver to an unlicensed gunsmith? Thanks

Click to expand...

Guns older than 1898 are considered antiques, not C&R, and therefore don't fall under the ATF's purview. Unless you live in New Jersey you don't need anything.

videodon said:

The way I understand it, C&R purchases made prior
to obtaining your C&R license or after (without using your C&R)
should be entered in your bound book.
(unless you've kept good receipts of those not acquired with the license)
That's my take on it.

Click to expand...

With all respect, this is incorrect. You do not record all C&R firearms you have in your possession prior to getting your license. If this were the case, the logic would follow that you must record all dispositions of firearms that you disposed of prior to getting your license. I have a copy of a BATF letter somewhere in this computer that clearly states this, and this has been beat to death many times on this forum. Once again, record all C&R firearms that you acquire after you get you license. Record all dispositions while you have that license. When your license expires you do not have to send your books to the BATF, although not a wise thing to do, you can throw it away if you want. And for heavens sake, don't record every firearm you have in there whether C&R or not. No where does the rules say to do that. All of this should be clear before you even apply for the thing.
[/QUOTE]

I have been inspected four times in my house. I show them my C&R book and I state that these other books list guns were I did not use my license. I also open the filing cabinet that has all my receipts. I explain my color code dots to identify C&Rs in the book and the other books. They have not had a problem with my system as it does what they want done in the first place, that is a means of identifying where I get and sell items.

I keep a seperate (and private) log book for all my non-c&r guns as well. Keep your C&R book for C&R guns only. I don't think you have to record anything purchased prior to receiving your license. When I first logged my C&R guns, I realized I didn't have any serial #'s written down for my other guns. Having my other guns logged down somewhere makes me feel a little better if they were ever stolen.

wjneal said:

You are only required to log in C&R acquisitions and dispositions while you have your 03 license but some people find the book a good place to keep (even thought they are not required to) a list of all their firearms along with all relevant information in case there ever is a problem. Also a lot of license holders keep a duplicate log book off site, I keep a copy at the office in case there ever is a fire or other problem at home..

Click to expand...

The Expert said:

I agree with the first part of this post, however the highlighted section is not in keeping with federal regulations, which state that any record of acquisition and disposition of a firearm by a licensee which is required to be created by law or regulation must be retained by the licensee or ex-licensee for 20 years. We've been over this point as well in previous posts, but here again is the obscurely worded CFR which requires 20 year retention of bound books:

27 CFR 478.129 Record retention.

(e) Records of dealers and collectors
under the Act. The records prepared
by licensed dealers and licensed collectors
under the Act of the sale or other disposition
of firearms and the corresponding
record of receipt of such firearms shall be
retained through December 15, 1988, after
which records of transactions over 20
years of age may be discarded.

Click to expand...

I am mistaken, and you are correct.

I do it this way: ANY firearm bought or sold whilst I have an active C&R license is logged.