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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Exhooah
Gunboards Premium Member



109 Posts
Posted - 08/20/2006 : 5:00:56 PM
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A guy over on the MSA forum has bought a "collector K98" and posted pics.
http://p198.ezboard.com/fk98kpagefrm1.showMessage?topicID=8088.topic

kw1941
Gunboards Member



USA
89 Posts
Posted - 08/20/2006 : 5:32:15 PM
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Please correct me ONLY IF I AM WRONG. Looks as though these examples have been re-blued. --incorrectly at that. The bolt has been polished in away the originals were not. The stocks (RC's) have been sanded and refurbished....and it looked as thought various parts had the serials removed and were renumbered......

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patrick a. wilder


Hambone
I Have A Tina Tuner Style Haircut



2647 Posts
Posted - 08/20/2006 : 5:58:10 PM
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I'd rather have a legit MM bolt only rifle for about the same money. Better yet, get a suitable RC, some steel wool, cold blue, and a sander and pimp your own ride for less.

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tsellati
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1964 Posts
Posted - 08/20/2006 : 7:38:13 PM
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Did you read the nonsensical comment one of the posters made regarding this rifle - "You have a weapon that you can show to your grandkids someday and tell them it's just like the weapon your grandfather, great grandfather, or countrymen from that era were up against when the allies invaded Europe. Not to mention what Russia had to face for four years." I suspect one of these "collector grade abortions" is nothing like what our grandfathers, great grandfathers or countrymen ever came up against !

Tim

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"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf".

--George Orwell--

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Edited by - tsellati on 08/20/2006 7:39:26 PM


Wurger
Gunboards Super Premium Member



367 Posts
Posted - 08/20/2006 : 9:11:58 PM
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There aught to be a law!

They even used cold blue after they smacked the new serial # on the trigger guard.

$200 historic rifle + 1 hour of sanding...buffing...grinding...smacking new numbers and it's a $500 "collector" piece.

Sounds like the guy is happy but he really could have saved the $300 and had a better, more authentic rifle.


wolfey
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
562 Posts
Posted - 08/20/2006 : 9:26:57 PM
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What a Horror Show! -wolfey


n/a
deleted



246 Posts
Posted - 08/20/2006 : 10:09:06 PM
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Not really my thing, all the polish and shine... but I see some real junker's sell for more cash then that. If that guy's happy with it then it's good enough for me. I'm not a purist though, and I can see how some might be offended by the tampering of a 200.00 dollar (I just spent 250.00 at the grocery store) "historic" rifle by mitchell's.


gunhorde
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
3782 Posts
Posted - 08/21/2006 : 02:40:16 AM
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Wow, you expect me to be able to sleep after seeing THAT ?!?!?!?!?! That's not just bad, that's CRIMINAL ! Poor guy will realize it sooner or later.... I just hope it doesn;t discourage him from collecting.

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Gunhorde

Milsurps.... like legal crack.

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GewehrmannII
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



1003 Posts
Posted - 08/21/2006 : 03:25:50 AM
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But it's got a walnut stock! It's gotta be real!


Nirvana
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
709 Posts
Posted - 08/21/2006 : 08:11:59 AM
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the first 3 pictures say it all....


Alko
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1610 Posts
Posted - 08/21/2006 : 08:35:16 AM
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I really hate to sound too negitive, but that goes 98K would go well with a repo bayonet and repo helmet. Totally fake.


TGRacing
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
115 Posts
Posted - 08/21/2006 : 10:06:30 AM
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I hope that guy knows that he can return it and get a real german for less and it will be worth more.even some rc's have the service marking from the german man.'s

Tom


Nirvana
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
709 Posts
Posted - 08/21/2006 : 10:22:03 AM
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Ive thought about this some more and have two observations:

1-Mitchells mausers really never has seen a german k98. The words in their ads arent misleading, because they just really dont know. The bolt is in the white (m48 style), and the stock is numbered the same way, M48 style.

or

2-This further proves that mitchells M48 are recent rebuilds, for their sale only, and that they just sent some K98s to the same "refinishers" without any different instructions. Thus, you have a K98 redone with M48 style.

thoughts?
Chris


gunhorde
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
3782 Posts
Posted - 08/21/2006 : 10:22:07 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Alko

I really hate to sound too negitive, but that goes 98K would go well with a repo bayonet and repo helmet. Totally fake.

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Alko, let's say it together... "repro"..... REE-PRO".... now you try it....

Because I sure don't know what a repoduction is.... is re-podding like re-PLANTING or something? - maybe a Southern thing?

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Gunhorde

Milsurps.... like legal crack.

Stalingrad Postal Match results were posted June 30th - Thanks to everyone who helped/participated!

Have you shot the C&R Pistol Postal Match? Click here for match details


doctorxring
Gunboards Super Premium Member



431 Posts
Posted - 08/21/2006 : 1:30:15 PM
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That is very, very sad.

But as you see from the owner's comments,
ignorance is bliss.

And Mitchell's preys upon ignorance.

Plicks.

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Happiness is a tight group


J.Stein
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



2970 Posts
Posted - 08/21/2006 : 1:40:25 PM
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I just don't understand why they polished the bolts.
That is something that is just tooooo obvious.
I'll admit though that it will help segregate them at gunshows. I'll be able to tell from two aisles away that I'm not interested and therefore save everyone's time.
Seriously, I can't tell you how many cummulative hours of my life have been wasted waiting to get a table-holder's attention only to then handle the weapon before exclaiming my favorite PG rated profanity...FARLEY!
The shiney bolt will at least work until less-than-scrupulous re-sellers start bluing the bolts. Then its back to wasting my time.

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I got laid off when they closed that asbestos factory.


rustybayonet
Gunboards Member



42 Posts
Posted - 08/21/2006 : 2:28:00 PM
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That's why you do as much research as possible before you go out and drop that much money on a fake.


torp.ss
Gunboards Super Premium Member



313 Posts
Posted - 08/21/2006 : 6:28:19 PM
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Looked at a 55 T-Bird this week-end. Magnet showed about 12 lbs. of body putty,chevy motor,fiberglass hood and trunklid,digital guages,etc,etc,etc.Was it a T-Bird, well it looked like one a little . Was it collectable,not to me.Was it worth $55.000,If someone pays that for it,yup.Got me wondering if Mitchell's is into the antique car hobby also.


gew88guy
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



France
6193 Posts
Posted - 08/21/2006 : 7:00:10 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by wolfey

What a Horror Show! -wolfey

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box was sure purdy.

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~ An honest tale speeds best,
being plainly told. ~

Who is this man and why is he trying to save my country?

liberalism is a mental disorder

Imperial German Regimental Markings

Das Heereswaffenampt




fergus
Gunboards Super Premium Member



Pitcairn Island
489 Posts
Posted - 08/21/2006 : 7:11:36 PM
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Well.....at least he didn't get the $800 "French-fitted" display case to go with it.


Josh man
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
855 Posts
Posted - 08/21/2006 : 7:17:54 PM
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This guy has no knowledge on K98ks obviously, he doesnt even know what bubbad means. I could show him a potato and tell him it is a rare K98k and he would probably believe me. He thinks this is how they are. I am a newer collector and would never touch a Mitchell with a ten foot pole.

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solman
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1615 Posts
Posted - 08/21/2006 : 7:37:50 PM
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for that much i would have bought the chromed mauser thats been appearing on the gunbroker. now bone has really hit the nail on the head. why PAY somebody to bubba a mauser when you can have the fun yourself?????

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Trompe la mort


pacific-war44
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1661 Posts
Posted - 08/21/2006 : 7:40:49 PM
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Garrison marks?? That's a clearly fraudulant description on an obviously humped-to-the-max '98.Somebody sue this Mitchell goob outta the ballpark already,I'm gettin bored with him....I wonder how their P38 in-the-case rigs fare,prolly dip blued and rematched as well,at least you get a $95 Iron CrossII(or repop Enron Cross!)to go in your French Fitted case for the $800 or whatever asking price...Mitchell needs his azz kicked in a gunshow auditorium alley or something.


Wurger
Gunboards Super Premium Member



367 Posts
Posted - 08/21/2006 : 8:46:21 PM
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You know, that stamp on the butt-stock looks pretty sharp for a sanded and refinished stock...don't it.

In 20 years the typical RC 98ks will probably be worth $2000 and this poor violated (bubba'd) mauser will probably fetch less than the $500 this poor guy payed for it!


GewehrmannII
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



1003 Posts
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 12:38:08 AM
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There are 2 kinds of people that I don't mind seeing buy Mitchell Mauser products. The first kind is the guy who knows what they are and buys them on sale, like me when I bought a couple of Mitchell's M-48's from CDNN for about half what Mitchells was selling them for. The 2nd kind is the jackass who keeps posting here about what wonderful and honest folks the Mitchell gang are. I love to see guys like that get burned and pretend to like it!


ptrthgr8
Gold Bullet Club



USA
1009 Posts
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 04:39:15 AM
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I'm honestly not sure which was worse... the rifle that fellow purchased or the poster in the thread on that other site who came off like a complete jack-ass. I'm inclined to think the latter.

Look, most of us think Mitchell's rifles are jokes and we tend to agree their advertising practices are shady at best. No arguments there. But why crap all over the fellow in that thread who bought one? He obviously knows very little about milsurps, probably saw the ad in his NRA magazine, decided he wanted one, and is now pretty happy with the purchase. He's now much more likely to get bit by the milsurp bug - and that's a good thing, no? It's easy enough to explain to someone why what they purchased may not be all it's cracked up to be, but what purpose is served by making him feel like a complete idiot? None. There's no point in doing that... unless you're trying to convince the guy that "serious" collectors are all a bunch of ass-hats.

I always feel sorry for the guys who buy one of those Mitchell's rifles. Not because they bought one (they'll learn as they go along), but because of collectors who post pissy responses (which makes us all look like a bunch of elitists).

I'm glad nobody jumped all over my back when I first started collecting. That would most certainly have been a turn off.

Cheers,

~ Greg ~

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mrfarb
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



1388 Posts
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 08:09:40 AM
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I agree Greg- I try not to talk bad about the new guys, as I was one once. I think most of these guys are not really railing against him, just upset that Mitchells found another sucker, thereby extending thier stay here with us. I was lucky that I had someone to steer me out of oncoming traffic early on - thanks Dave Davis!

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Check out my website- www.latewar.com


WaPrüf2
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
935 Posts
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 09:00:43 AM
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Wonder if they could be sued for false advertising? Using mails to defraud? When I do my exhibits I'm continuously asked my opinion of these horrors by the poor souls who know only what they read in THE AMERICAN RIFLEMAN; I average 5-6 quieries per show about the silly things.


TGRacing
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
115 Posts
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 09:50:53 AM
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Well guys I guess the real story here is that most new collectors aren't reading up on what they want to collect. Before I started collecting I got a book on german small arms and that helped me find the fakes and the real gems.New guys do some research and you will not be taken by places as mitchells'.You will be happier and your purchases will be worth more to you and your collection.

Tom


mauser_dude
Gunboards Premium Member



240 Posts
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 2:56:34 PM
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ptrthgr8,

Well said.... based on the posts... I'd bet their isn't a future Mitchell's customer around here...

Hey...now lets blast the crappy REAL k98's that Century has been selling as "lovingly refinished" that can be a "cornerstone" of any collection.....:)

If the guy likes what he got and gets all excited about it...Good for him!....
Maybe this will lead him to collect other mil-surp's and eventually find this board with its wealth of info and support...




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Well, that's my 2 cents...30 April 2007 is apopt a M1 carbine day from the guvmnt for $517...Do you know where your paperwork is??

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Edited by - mauser_dude on 08/22/2006 4:09:38 PM


creepiE
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1768 Posts
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 3:51:20 PM
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Well said Greg, I certainly would not want to turn away another guy who is starting to collect guns. We need all we can get. It is similar to all the bash-Illinois threads, we WANT gun-owners to move to this state, not run. Strength in numbers...especially at the polls. To put it bluntly, Support and Educate the new collector!

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"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."
~Thomas Jefferson


mowzerluvr
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



1612 Posts
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 4:18:24 PM
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They are like the proverbial bad penny and keep turning up. I remember a few years back with my bolt m/m byf 44 I bought from the 2nd (US citizen) owner. Its a rarer walnut stock with a tad of battle damage but a real nice looker. Anyway, I was showing it to a friend who owns a pretty upscale shop in southern NH and this customer walks up and says, "Hey, a K98 !!, I have one of those but mine is much nicer than that. My wife got it at Mitchells, ever heard or em?"..lol I felt like saying, "Here's your sign"..lol.

mow

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Talk is cheap, because supply almost always exceeds demand.


F16CC
Gunboards Premium Member



129 Posts
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 6:17:07 PM
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One thing I've noticed too is the diffrent kinds of collectors out there. You tend to see many "advanced" collectors. K98s are their passion and tend to be extremely knowledgeable on all things K98. Then you have you have the guys in the middle, theyre pretty knowledgeable, they like to read up on K98s, and collect a few examples here and there. And then you seem to have the guys who "just want a K98" for the collection. Most of the Mitchells guys I've run into seem to belong to this group. The guy that purchased this rifle certainly fits the bill. The sad thing is that sometimes I see a guy join a forum who really wants to get into K98s and went down the Mitchells road. Whats even worse was on another forum where a poster stated everything that was completley wrong with Mitchells and everyone and their brother blasted this guy. One poster even went so far as to say that Mitchells doesnt mislead with their ads, sells legit "collector" pieces, and that Mitchells clearly states that their rifles were refurbs. WOW...I wish I could read the ad that he read that states all that!!! (Of course these are the same posters/forum that believes "BBOTW" is the end all be all, holy grail of K98 books.) Needless to say after finding this forum and learning from my mistakes I dont go to that forum much anymore..LOL.





Josh man
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
855 Posts
Posted - 08/23/2006 : 6:27:01 PM
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I am one of the people who just want a K98k, being a 15 year old you would expect me to just buy the first thing I see. I read up on the K98k and its other variants, I will only buy all matching, or mismatch bolts if they are nice enough because I think about what museum would put a Century or a Mitchells in their displays. I remember when I first bought a fake German IAB, I had a sick feeling in my stomach, you know why I was duped? Because I didnt read about badges and just jumped on the first thing I saw. Read up and follow my motto

Dont buy if it is too nice
With a dirt price.

But dont follow my motto if you are expirienced and know if it is legit, I think the guy should sue Mitchells.

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Youngblood
Platinum Bullet Club



USA
5962 Posts
Posted - 08/23/2006 : 6:58:18 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Josh man

... I read up on the K98k and its other variants, I will only buy all matching, or mismatch bolts if they are nice enough ...
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If you stick to that, you probably will not own a K98k for a couple of decades.

I strongly suggest that if you really want a K98k, get yourself a nice SC K98k "shooter" and have a great time shooting the poot out of it for many years while you keep an eye out for the one you described above ... and hope that you can afford it when you finally come across it.



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Total Classic Gunboards Posts: 1191
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alamo
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
413 Posts
Posted - 08/23/2006 : 8:49:13 PM
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Will no one give them credit for doing such a fine job of buffing out the "X" ?


psy4s
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
189 Posts
Posted - 08/23/2006 : 11:37:25 PM
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I just think this looks alot like my MBO, with a little stamping you can buy from Numrich Guns, You can make an MBO into anything you want it to be. THe numbers will all match. I really love my MBO. It shoots like any of my Germany even though the Yougo built it, and Bill Clintons boys stamped Egypt on the barrel. It will throw an 8mm with the best of them. Funny thing is, with no markings from the factory, It would be real easy to make it into one of these collector Mausers. See fr yourself.


Download Attachment:
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See anything in common. Make some stock mods and stamp some stamps. You have it. The Bolt, even the number in the stock. I paid $170 after tax for my Egyptian Marked Yugo Mauser MBO. For a shooter I like her best. For a looker, She is right up there. And hey nothing fake about her. Not scrubbed. No stamps. No markings at all least those from the Importers. I hope that new Mauser no matter where it is from gives her new owner the feaver like it did all of us. With seven in my gun safe I still have to look at every one I pass for that next secret one. Oh come on, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN!!!!!



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hillbillywizard
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
161 Posts
Posted - 08/25/2006 : 12:12:44 AM
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I remember a post a while back , the poster wondering.. "what do the newer advertised Mitchel looked like", only few here would be willing to plunk down the $$$ to get one. After all it is akin to lighting it on fire and smoking it. We saw, had a good laugh at someone else's expense, followed by guilt and a "I am goin to hell for that one"... say 10 Hail Marys and I am on my way. He is happy with it,,, that is the bottom line.
With that said ... all of the stampings on the metal look to well defined (deep impressions), and there seems to be a few pounds of wood missing making the aero look popular. Buffing, grinding, polishing and re-stamps ... (hmmm... I wonder of he totemkopf (sp?) has a smiley face on the SS version)
I hope he loves his gun and never wakes up from the anasthesia.

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Send lawyers guns and money, the s$it has hit the fan


BP_redbear
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
171 Posts
Posted - 08/25/2006 : 03:25:34 AM
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1. Am I to understand that if I call this Mitchell seller, that they have rifles with receivers, ground off, and ready to stamp whatever date of maunfacture that I wish to see on it? (Referring to the "Original German K98k rifles, manufactured in Germany from 1934 until 1945" that are currently being advertised in NRA magazine.)

2. And/or that the parts have all been ground and renumbered to lead a buyer to believe that the parts are original, as manufactured with that exact rifle? (As they say matching serial numbers on at least all 6 major parts.)

3. And that there is no way that A rifle that I would purchase from them will, in fact, be what they claim it to be?

4. If they claim that a rifle is an original K98k made in Germany during WWII, should I believe that there is no way that it actually was?

5. How would a buyer know that the other sellers mentioned are ligit, and honest in their claims?

Thank you, and when I own a genuine K98k, I look forward to posting here. BP


Josh man
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
855 Posts
Posted - 08/25/2006 : 4:13:19 PM
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Look at them, do they look completely German to you? And why would a gun be matching on just 6 major parts, You sound like a newbie.

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Josh man
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
855 Posts
Posted - 08/25/2006 : 4:15:09 PM
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You need to read before you buy, trust me you will regret it when you buy a piece of junk.

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Nirvana
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
709 Posts
Posted - 08/25/2006 : 5:14:53 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Josh man

Look at them, do they look completely German to you? And why would a gun be matching on just 6 major parts, You sound like a newbie.

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Josh Man,
Part of the joy of posting on gunboards is educating "newbies" *Hint Hint* Not calling them out as such and asking rhetorical questions that have obvious and demeaning answers.

BP_redbear
1-The rifles in question look to me to have the original maker/year marks on them. Russian capture guns come in all varieties, and Im sure for what they charge, they can get what you order.

2-It would seem that they have been ground, perhaps filled, and renumbered. This is a judgement based on the pictures we have been shown.

3-If you buy a german K98 from them, and it is anything like the gun pictured, it is not all original. That being said, if they advertise is as all original, you would not be getting what you believed you were ordering.

4-These rifles are, no doubt, K98s made in germany during ww2 and used by them. In that sense, they are "original". In reguards to finish, serial numbered parts, possibly the stock, they are not in original condition, which i feel is a big distinction.

5-As with any other product, research what you are buying. Ask for others experiences, see if the seller has a return policy, and make sure the ads arent "too good to be true". Original condition matching k98s are quite often 4 figure items now. If a company is selling them for $500...there is probably a problem, or else the bottom would fall from the market.

We look forward to your posting more..
Chris


ptrthgr8
Gold Bullet Club



USA
1009 Posts
Posted - 08/25/2006 : 5:15:22 PM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Josh man

Look at them, do they look completely German to you? And why would a gun be matching on just 6 major parts, You sound like a newbie.
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Way to support someone who's probably new to collecting, Josh man.

This is the exact sort of response to which I was referring in my post above. This is the sort of attitude that makes people think collectors are a bunch of elitist ass-hats.

Thanks, Josh man.

Cheers,

~ Greg ~

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Adopt a US Sniper today! www.americansnipers.org/

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garfield
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
2551 Posts
Posted - 08/25/2006 : 7:19:14 PM
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Greg:

Supposedly Josh Man is a 15 year old lad with one or two rifles. Some of the posters at one of the other boards on which he posts suspect him to be a troll. I would not concern myself with the tone of his posts.


alamo
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
413 Posts
Posted - 08/25/2006 : 9:46:56 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by garfield

Greg:

Supposedly Josh Man is a 15 year old lad with one or two rifles. Some of the posters at one of the other boards on which he posts suspect him to be a troll. I would not concern myself with the tone of his posts.

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That explains it. Tone it down Josh or I'll tell your Mommy and Daddy you're playing on the internet again.


BP_redbear
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
171 Posts
Posted - 08/25/2006 : 11:47:53 PM
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(Apologies to original poster if i changed direction of thread...)
Nice pics, nice rifle.

Thanks. And, YES, JOSH, I am new to the K98k interests. So, I obviously can't tell ORIGINAL from refinished, hacked, repro, or outright fake.

I appreciate the comments of collectors here, because I had placed an order (yesterday), with the aforementioned "M M" seller, for $800 for a 'premium' grade byf 41 marked rifle. After reading 2 or 3 threads here, last night, I questioned my trust in the seller.

I cancelled the order today (nothing against anyone who has purchased from them).

True, I want a K98k that is clean, premium, and has matching part numbers, HOWEVER, I did come to believe that they are in the practice of refinishing, re-blueing, possibly re-numbering, even if the receiver may have in fact been manufactured by Mauser in Oberndorf (byf), in 1941 (41), that is not the rifle that I am looking for. (Their ad started to look 'too-good-to-be-true'.)

For me, (and it would seem most collectors here), it would be better to own an all-original, correctly matched rifle in LESS-than-premium condition, than one which has been re-done to LOOK (and in fact be) 'premium'-looking, (and possibly be re-numbered). That's just me.

For someone who wants to own a pretty rifle, that is in fact, an original German K98k, and does not mind if parts have been re-finished, polished, or otherwise been 'touched-up', then perhaps Mitchell sells exactly the perfect rifle for that particular collector.

That said, all the input made me more that skeptical, because I DID BELIEVE that I WAS going to receive an "ALL-ORIGINAL-ALL-ORIGINAL-FACTORY-NUMBERED-MATCHING-ORIGINAL-PREMIUM-GRADE-1941MAUSER as it left the factory in Oberndorf", so I cancelled my order......the price actually SEEMED (remember-NEWBIE here) to be TOO LOW for what they were offering.

Would an ALL-ORIGINAL....byf41.....sell for only $800???? Collectors?????

Where, again, shall I look for genuine ORIGINAL K98s? (I can re-read other threads, or ask Q on a new thread if no one wants to continue this one.

Again, original poster, nice rifle, I WILL own a Mauser of my own soon.


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from a grateful civilian to any and all who serve our country, past and present: "I have never been cold. I have never been hungry. I look forward to tomorrow. Thank you, God bless you, and God bless America." -favorite quote from an admiral addressing SEAL team members, at a ceremony. I enjoy being free!! BP


BP_redbear
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
171 Posts
Posted - 08/26/2006 : 12:58:26 AM
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P.S.
I have learned: 1. Be skeptical of what you are preparing to buy,
2. RESEARCH, before you buy (that's why i came here),
3. My Ruger M77 is actually a Mauser, haha. (Mauser-style bolt rifle),
4. I guess I'll buy a M1903 from the CMP (I can probably trust them), while I search out the K98k that I will be happy with,
5. BE PATIENT.

No, I am not turned off to collecting, yes I am skeptical that there are any non-hacked K98s out there...

Thank you to those posters here and other places, for saving me the trouble of buying a rifle that i may have been unhappy with...BP


alamo
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
413 Posts
Posted - 08/26/2006 : 10:24:58 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by BP_redbear

4. I guess I'll buy a M1903 from the CMP (I can probably trust them), while I search out the K98k that I will be happy with,

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You waited too long to get a 1903 from the CMP, all gone:

http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/m1903.htm


Josh man
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
855 Posts
Posted - 08/26/2006 : 4:32:23 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, I didnt realize you were new, I will look forward to helping you as much as I can, just please forgive me for being an asshole. I really want to help you. I just forgot that I was once a newbie to collecting and I traded a totenkopf cufftitle for a horribly fake DAK cap. Will you forgive me BP redbear for being an asshole?

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sargeast
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
116 Posts
Posted - 08/26/2006 : 4:40:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Redbear, I would buy either a Yugo (K98 captured, marked, and stored by Yugoslavia) or a Russian Capture first. Fix it up, tear it down, learn everything about it, and THEN (along with researching it on the internet) go out shopping for a "nice" one. It's amazing how quick you learn to spot crap like MM has once you've actually handled one, even a mix-master RC. I've been there in just a few months time.


killertom
Gunboards Super Premium Member



Hungary
260 Posts
Posted - 08/26/2006 : 4:45:01 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Josh man

Look at them, do they look completely German to you? And why would a gun be matching on just 6 major parts, You sound like a newbie.

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And you sound like someone whos asked the stupidest questions on these bords ever, yet thinks of himself as a seasoned Mauser collector...

PAGE 2................................................................................................................

Josh man
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
855 Posts
Posted - 08/26/2006 : 4:52:37 PM
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I am not a seasoned collector, I know I was an asshole on that part but I am sorry. And I asked questions because I am somewhat a newbie. I just got some books and that means I will ask less questions, especially the stupid ones. And the dumb questions were on the Japanese board because I am less educated on Japanese rifles.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Josh man
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
855 Posts
Posted - 08/26/2006 : 4:57:38 PM
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I am not a seasoned collector, I asked the dumb questions on the japanese board because I am less educated on Japanese rifles than Mausers, I know quite a bit about mausers but I am not a seasoned collector. And I didnt mean to be rude either.

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Youngblood
Platinum Bullet Club



USA
5962 Posts
Posted - 08/26/2006 : 5:01:26 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by killertom

... And you sound like someone whos asked the stupidest questions on these bords ever, yet thinks of himself as a seasoned Mauser collector...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posting this after he apologized suggests that you have a larger issue than he did, Tom.

Josh man has been chastened and realizes both that his post was thoughtless and why. The question now is, do you?



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When you are at the range or shooting
ALWAYS WEAR SAFETY GLASSES!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
** CETME and FR-8 Forum Expat **
Registered on Nov 23, 2001 12:07 pm
Total Classic Gunboards Posts: 1191
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Josh man
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
855 Posts
Posted - 08/26/2006 : 5:05:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And I didnt realize that there was a second page on this and that is why I put 3 replies,

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Josh man
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
855 Posts
Posted - 08/26/2006 : 5:06:36 PM
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Thank you Youngblood.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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BP_redbear
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
171 Posts
Posted - 08/26/2006 : 6:56:35 PM
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Josh: No apology required here, but, thanks. No offense taken by me.

sargeast: Yugo sounds like a good suggestion, except 'Yugo' sounds like a itty-bitty car, lol.

I have ordered 2 books on Mauser rifles from Amazon; "Military Mausers of the World" and "Mauser Military Rifle Markings, 2nd Ed."
(title may not be exactly as I wrote for second book)

i hope that they will provide some good information, and make me a little Mauser-ized.

Thanks EVERYone. I am like a sponge..........SPILL your knowledge, lol

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from a grateful civilian to any and all who serve our country, past and present: "I have never been cold. I have never been hungry. I look forward to tomorrow. Thank you, God bless you, and God bless America." -favorite quote from an admiral addressing SEAL team members, at a ceremony. I enjoy being free!! BP


killertom
Gunboards Super Premium Member



Hungary
260 Posts
Posted - 08/26/2006 : 7:06:34 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Youngblood


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by killertom

... And you sound like someone whos asked the stupidest questions on these bords ever, yet thinks of himself as a seasoned Mauser collector...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posting this after he apologized suggests that you have a larger issue than he did, Tom.

Josh man has been chastened and realizes both that his post was thoughtless and why. The question now is, do you?



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, I have to admit that I have a problem with people who waste place, and time on these boards with questions like: Why do some people sporterize rifles?

Youngblood, (and also Josh), I have no personal problem with Josh. Heck, we even live a couple thousand miles away from each other, but I do have a problem with the way he conducted, and conducts himself on Gunboards. He came here with questions so dumb, that can't be explained with his age. People were patient with him for a time. I refrained from posting my comments on some of his questions, because I felt there is no need for me to be rude with him, but there is a line. Coming here with the questions he posted, and than acting arrogant with other newcomers is extremely stupid behaviour and again, cannot be explained on Josh's part.
And this is for Josh: Think before you post, than you won't have to aplogize afterwards.

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Istennel a hazáért és a szabadságért!



garfield
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
2551 Posts
Posted - 08/27/2006 : 12:36:12 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well said, killertom.

Youngblood,, people have been apologizing for Joshman for too long, IMHO. Time for him, if he is real, to get his act together. And, no, the Japanese board was not the only place that Josh has asked "stupid" questions or made "stupid" remarks.


madboy357
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
889 Posts
Posted - 08/27/2006 : 02:46:57 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is a sad state of affairs when the most popular topic (2 pages worth?) on this fine Kar98k board concerns nothing more than a humped up Mitchell Mauser and the spanking of a 15 YO internet wizard. Aren't there any cool Nazi guns to talk about??


BP_redbear
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
171 Posts
Posted - 08/27/2006 : 1:22:17 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...the fact that because uf this thread and a couple others, I was able to cancel my order with Mitchel for $800 before it shipped.

I want an original, un-re-finished K98k. Nazi stuff doesn't really impress me, except for possibly the historical value of all of it.

Material from the famous, and infamous, German military is.

Maybe you can tell us about, or post pictures of one of your K98Ks.

Plenty of threads to read. I am new to Mausers, and to this board, and also believe that it is a fine board and full of some fine people. BP

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from a grateful civilian to any and all who serve our country, past and present: "I have never been cold. I have never been hungry. I look forward to tomorrow. Thank you, God bless you, and God bless America." -favorite quote from an admiral addressing SEAL team members, at a ceremony. I enjoy being free!! BP


madboy357
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
889 Posts
Posted - 08/27/2006 : 2:47:52 PM
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Not impressed by Nazi regalia, yet you'll drop 800+ in coin for some of their gear----with admittedly little to no knowledge on the subject? Sounds like you were begging to be burned. Knowledge is power.



Download Attachment:
144.63 KB


BP_redbear
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
171 Posts
Posted - 08/27/2006 : 4:16:09 PM
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I meant not impressed by the Nazis, because of what they stood for, but their gear, yes.

Yes, begging to be burned, that's why I ordered.....
Getting a little knowledge, that's why I cancelled my order....

Naive, yes, just was reading my NRA American Rifleman mag, saw an ad, sounded good, figured that what i would receive would be what i believed it to be, but it would seem now that it wouldn't be.

Glad that I came here, saved me some aggravation, embarassment, and frustration.

Thanks for the pic of your rifle. I want a nice one, but not one that a company polished and re-finished and sells it as 'Original'.

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from a grateful civilian to any and all who serve our country, past and present: "I have never been cold. I have never been hungry. I look forward to tomorrow. Thank you, God bless you, and God bless America." -favorite quote from an admiral addressing SEAL team members, at a ceremony. I enjoy being free!! BP


Kashue
Gunboards Member



11 Posts
Posted - 08/27/2006 : 6:34:00 PM
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My suggestion to you Redbear is purchase a russian captured K98..so you have a visual aid to go by and research boards and books..use it as a stepping stone to help you purchase something of better value.

Thats if you are interested in collecting K98s and other examples its a good start..plus will gain value...how much?..I personally dont know time will tell..but you wont lose investment as long as you dont over pay for a R/C rifle.

Yeah spending around $200 to learn about something is a hit in the wallet..I spent 500 bucks my first year of school cause I was too cool to purchase "used" books...learned my lesson along time ago

If you already know all this stuff just ignore my post :)


Josh man
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
855 Posts
Posted - 08/27/2006 : 7:10:50 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I asked why people sporterize rifles because I hunt with them the way they were used in the war, and I was wondering what the difference in firing and recoil and matinence would be. And I would recomend buying a RC first so you can dissasemble it and practice cleaning it so you dont ruin that 1000 dollar rifle.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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mauser_dude
Gunboards Premium Member



240 Posts
Posted - 08/29/2006 : 12:37:29 AM
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red_bear,

I think its ironic how we started discussing Mitchell’s version of the Russian capture K98 and how they irreverently refinish and forced stamped renumbered the major 6 parts....and we end up suggesting getting someone else’s version of the RC k98 (that has been refinished and forced matched with electro-penciled numbers)...:) Like one is more or less authentic than the other....

In my opinion, Mitchell’s biggest problems that have been pointed out throughout this thread are their misleading advertising and the premium price tag for their products...


Red_bear: If you have not already done so, one other suggestion that may help you in buying military surplus rifles is the Curio and Relic License. This may save you money and enable you to purchase eligible firearms with less paperwork and money. To me it has been worth the $30 for 3 years. A good site to get on C&R info (besides the www.atf.gov) is www.surplusrifle.com They also are a good source of online general disassembly/assembly manuals for rifles and pistols.


I have bought RC and Yugo capture K98’s from Century (advertised as “Lovingly Refinished”); InterOrdance (advertised as “hand selected” and “highest quality”). Overall I am very satisfied with the k98’s I have from them, even though I have returned three from century that did not meet the bore conditions advertised.

You get what you pay for... I have learned a lot disassembling , shooting and studying the different metal and wood hardware from different years of production...did I mention shooting them??. I still got along way to go and I look forward to the journey...

As someone else once said in some other thread on this forum, “All of My RC k98’s are matching...the Russian’s made ‘em so...”


Enjoy your next purchase and hopefully, continued mil-surp purchases...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, that's my 2 cents...30 April 2007 is apopt a M1 carbine day from the guvmnt for $517...Do you know where your paperwork is??

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Edited by - mauser_dude on 08/29/2006 6:15:53 PM


BP_redbear
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
171 Posts
Posted - 08/29/2006 : 01:09:49 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ah, good advice, i have noticed that several rifles listed for sale on Empire Arms' site are indicated as "C&R", which I recognized as curio and relic, but did not know of the significance of this designation.

Can you explain exactly, or generally, what a C&R license will do for me? How can it save me money, and other benefit mentioned?

Oh, and if the Russians ground off all original markings, especially the mfr code and date, how can one know that it is indeed a German K98k?

True, who's rifles are really 'better' that others', I don't know yet. I believe that i will feel more satisfied purchasing a rifle, even though it may have been electropenciled by the Soviets/Russians to be 'matching', than one that I had believed was in original finish, when, in fact it had been refinished and polished.

I just received my copies of "Backbone of the Wehrmacht" and "Mauser Military Rifle Markings". i will read these, and be looking for rifles. Perhaps I buy from Century, Empire, Inter Ordnance, or another seller.

As long as it is genuinely a K98k rifle made in Germany, i will deal with whether any or all original markings have been removed, and be happy with what I have.

i am taking all of the suggestions and information given here, absorbing all of it, and loving it. Perhaps I am not a 'true collector' yet, but I do have an odd assortment including a SA M1A, Ruger M77, Ruger Mini-14, MAK-90, a M1 Garand on the way from the CMP, a Remington 870 (THIS puts food on the table for me, lol).

My next additions will hopefully be one K98k, and a M1903.

i am still glad that I cancelled my order with mitchell's. I like the way Empire lists their ads, rifles are as-is, apparently described correctly, and as many have said here, along the lines of what a good, first K98k should be.....a shooter that I can dis-assemble, assemble, shoot, handle, show, and learn from.

Thanks everyone, I am happy to have so many responses addressed to me personally, even though this was not 'my' thread originally.

And, anyone who owns a Mitchell's K98k, can at least be proud to own a piece of history, as long as it is indeed a K98k that was made in Germany, although re-finished in whatever fashoin, can't they? Let's not take that away from them.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
from a grateful civilian to any and all who serve our country, past and present: "I have never been cold. I have never been hungry. I look forward to tomorrow. Thank you, God bless you, and God bless America." -favorite quote from an admiral addressing SEAL team members, at a ceremony. I enjoy being free!! BP


BP_redbear
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
171 Posts
Posted - 08/29/2006 : 01:34:03 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes...I did read all of your post mauser_dude...will check out the C&R license....might this mean FedEx to my door?....no middle-man?....wondering how the CMP can deliver directly to my door....may have to call in sick the day Mr. FedEx delivers my M1.....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
from a grateful civilian to any and all who serve our country, past and present: "I have never been cold. I have never been hungry. I look forward to tomorrow. Thank you, God bless you, and God bless America." -favorite quote from an admiral addressing SEAL team members, at a ceremony. I enjoy being free!! BP


mauser_dude
Gunboards Premium Member



240 Posts
Posted - 08/29/2006 : 01:47:19 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

redbear,

Not all RC have their orginal numbers scrubed.... I have one that only the bolt body was electro-penciled. The other parts were just original mismatched serial numbered parts. The recent InterOrdance K98's are different. All of parts are scrubed and have the receivers sn etched in all of the parts to include the rear sight assembly... While another one from century has electro-penciled receiver number just etched over the original numbers... They are all unique....


I bought a mosin from empire and a coworker has bought several different firearms from him. They were all better than described... Before you can purchase a firearm from Empire you have to have a copy of your C&R on file with him. Thats is just his policy and he will send out periodic listings via email when you register.

I have saved money by buying directly from the importer/dealer, private out of state sales. You don't have to use a transfer dealer that usually charge from $24-40 to process paper work for eligible firearms. Rule of thumb is boltaction and semi-auto firearms 50 years old or older are C&R (BEAWARE...There are exceptions!!!!!)

For example, when you buy a k98 from century arms you can most times get a lower price than from going down to the local gun shop and it will be delivered right to your door for a signature delivery. Down side is you don't get to see the rifle until you open the box...I bought an ex-sniper mosin 91/30 at a gun show for $100 cash (no tax) from a cosmoline dealer, just gave him a signed copy of my C&R.

I'm sure others have input but this is getting off topic..... Hope this helps...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, that's my 2 cents...30 April 2007 is apopt a M1 carbine day from the guvmnt for $517...Do you know where your paperwork is??

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Edited by - mauser_dude on 08/29/2006 02:06:54 AM


mauser_dude
Gunboards Premium Member



240 Posts
Posted - 08/29/2006 : 01:54:37 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

redbear,

CMP is sanctioned by Congress so they can by law send it directly to your house.... Remember...CMP firearms are rearsenaled also....they are a mismatch of parts.... but they are all original.... They will assemble from parts a correct grade parts rifle for you at a premium of $850 for a garand (all parts are correct for manufacturer and serial # year of production)...It might have gone up... I bought a $500 service grade 1956 H&R that has parts from springfield, H&R and International Havester and the dates based on part numbers range from 1942-56. It is a great shooter....



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Edited by - mauser_dude on 08/29/2006 02:11:35 AM


BP_redbear
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
171 Posts
Posted - 08/29/2006 : 02:43:14 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

mauser_dude:

Since my last posting, I used the link that you provided to request a form from ATF for the C&R license. Thanks!!
The rifle I ordered from CMP is service grade. I would have ordered a Correct Grade, but, presently unavailable.
yeah, probably way off topic. (especially with terms like CMP, M1903, M1, M1A, M77, Mini-14, ...lol.
It seems like most collectors here are more interested in sharing information for my (or other newB's) benefit than discussing their displeasure with the Mitchell's re-finished, re-worked rifle originally mentioned at the top of thread.
Currently browsing through various sellers to see what's available. The link to www.surplusrifles.com has many links to other sellers.

I am impressed by this site and its boards (and of course its posters). I have gained a lot of knowledge and insight in only a few days. I look forward to collecting.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
from a grateful civilian to any and all who serve our country, past and present: "I have never been cold. I have never been hungry. I look forward to tomorrow. Thank you, God bless you, and God bless America." -favorite quote from an admiral addressing SEAL team members, at a ceremony. I enjoy being free!! BP


ptrthgr8
Gold Bullet Club



USA
1009 Posts
Posted - 08/29/2006 : 02:55:28 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The problem with Mitchell's -- from my perspective anyhow -- is that there seems to be a nearly-certain attempt on their end to mislead the buying public and possibly even having these rifles "created" to suit their needs. To me it's an entirely different ballgame than, say, what the Russians did to those captured K98s -- once captured, whatever the Russians did to those K98s then becomes a part of the legitimate history of those rifles. What Mitchell's does is simply a bastardization of those rifles' history and really only devalues those rifles. I would gladly purchase a nicer Russian capture K98 (and know it's a legitimate piece) over a Mitchell's Mauser for half the price any day.

Also, as far as Dennis Kroh at Empire Arms is concerned... you can buy from him without concern. Empire rocks... I've bought many, many, many milsurps from him over the years and I've never once been disappointed with anything he's sent. Empire Arms is my personal-fave milsurp dealer, hands down. Be sure to get on his mailing list to get those handy "New Stuff" lists sent to your inbox (basically an advance sale notice -- you see the stuff before it hits his website). You can subscribe here:

http://www.egroups.com/group/empirearms

But as others have stated, you'll need to get the C&R license and make sure Empire has a copy on hand before you'll be able to purchase anything.

Cheers,

~ Greg ~


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adopt a US Sniper today! www.americansnipers.org/

Check out my photos: http://public.fotki.com/ptrthgr8/


hillbillywizard
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
161 Posts
Posted - 08/29/2006 : 8:05:31 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BP redbear. Call the BATF (or go to their website and request the application) Give a completed copy to your local sherriffs dept, mine looked at it funny, and I think, threw it away. In about 4 weeks, if you are a good boy, you will get one.
It allows you to purchase most guns 50+ years, as though you are a dealer, but not to sell as a dealer. Big$$$ savings over a dealer to dealer transaction, especially if you are like me and buy every damn thing you see.
Go out and get 1 or 2 RC K98s, and get an education. Collecting will make you love a 50% gun.

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Send lawyers guns and money, the s$it has hit the fan


BP_redbear
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
171 Posts
Posted - 08/30/2006 : 01:54:59 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have ordered an application for a C&R license from BATFE, and I WILL indeed send it in for approval. I read on the link mentioned above to take a copy of license, once I receive it, to my local LE office. I will.

I have just received confirmation from Empire Arms that a K98k which I ordered from them early this morning has shipped and is in transit.
(Next time i will be able to avoid the FFL dealer's transfer fee, which won't be that much, one-time anyway, my gun dealer is a small town guy, and has done good by me in the past.)

I ordered a RC Gew98/K98k Simson & Co., Suhl, 1925 specimen. It is at present listed on Empire's site as 'SOLD'... hope I made a good choice. Another example he has is dated 1937 ERMA, was my second choice....

I will wait for approval of my C&R license before my next purchase.

Perhaps I bought too soon, but I am reading my copy of 'Backbone of the Wehrmacht' and 'Mauser Military Rifle Markings', and am sure that I will not be disappointed on Tues., Sept. 5, when I get a call from the dealer..."Pick up your K98."

Now......which rifle will actually be my birthday present from my wife....the K98k that I will have next week......or the M1 Garand that I ordered from CMP.....hmm, birthday 2 months away.....M1 may arrive just then.......

Many posters here had good remarks about Empire Arms (among other sellers), and its owner. So far, I agree, fast response to my email, professional, confirmation, sent rifle out SAME DAY....geez, what more can you ask for....I told Dennis K that he has loyal and satisfied customers here at gunboards.....

thanks ptrthgr8 and others for candid and honest opinions regarding sellers and collecting, also on the C&R lic., eager to post pics of what Mr. Kroh supplies me with

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
from a grateful civilian to any and all who serve our country, past and present: "I have never been cold. I have never been hungry. I look forward to tomorrow. Thank you, God bless you, and God bless America." -favorite quote from an admiral addressing SEAL team members, at a ceremony. I enjoy being free!! BP


garfield
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
2551 Posts
Posted - 08/30/2006 : 02:07:17 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by BP_redbear

I just received my copies of "Backbone of the Wehrmacht" and "Mauser Military Rifle Markings". i will read these, and be looking for rifles.
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IMHO, don't put all your faith in "Backbone of the Wehrmacht", it isn't the Bible, by any means.


SLUF
Gunboards Member



USA
39 Posts
Posted - 09/04/2006 : 12:39:16 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you were liking the $800 ones, you're gonna LOVE these.


http://www.mauser.org/rifles/hist_k98/index.htm


BP_redbear
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
171 Posts
Posted - 09/04/2006 : 12:58:54 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks. "Forget a rifle, I want that super display case for $800 !!!"

Thanks, but I learned a lesson not-the-hard-way.

No other comments on that subject, except I cancelled my order with Mitchell's, and look forward to the fine example which I ordered from Empire, arriving at my dealer Sept 5!!!


lionhart
Gunboards Member



29 Posts
Posted - 09/04/2006 : 01:50:55 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, the K98's from Mitchell are authentic with 6 or so matching numbers, been refinished, and import marked. IF (And I'm saying IF) the Markings are Legit, then the $500.00 price on a Refinished/Import K98 would seem to be about right IMO. Now on the other hand, IF the Markings were recently applied, their obviously FAKE's, not worth the asking price. Though I have read that the Markings are suspect. Any confirmation on this? I feel like calling Mitchell myself to ask. IF I were to obtain one, the Bolt would go to the Bluers...


BP_redbear
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
171 Posts
Posted - 09/04/2006 : 08:31:07 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

lionhart:

Yeah, call Mitchell's and ask them a few questions. I was a second away from doing just that, before I cancelled my order with them, however I didn't.

I just imagined that they were going to say exactly what they would think that I wanted to hear. Other sellers say in their ads that rifles are Russian or Yugo captures, and tell us if parts have been force numbered.

The thorn in some people's sides, is that mitchell's words their ads to make most people believe that their rifles are as original, as left the factories in Germany.....yes they say "Factory overhauled", but what factory? ...German? Californian?...

They ARE NICE LOOKING rifles, by the ad, and for those who want that in a K98, that's fine with me. Maybe a report on what they say on the phone can set this issue to rest. (Seems like one poster, perhaps on a different thread, said Mitchell's was called, and defended their ads.)

OVER


Robert William
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
197 Posts
Posted - 09/04/2006 : 09:08:16 AM
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I cringe whenever I see a Mithell's add. Those guys are a bunch of hoodwinking crooks. I got a Kar98k a while back. It appears to be a late war gun, Laminated stock, sheet metal furnitue and so on. I do know the Yugos had it as all German codes have been removed and replaced with the Yugo (commie) crest. Some number match, some don't, but it handles like a good sporting rifle and is fairly accurate. It's probably not worth much but then I only paid $95.00 for it and it is a lot of fun.


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Give us our republic back, abolish the 17th amendment.


lionhart
Gunboards Member



29 Posts
Posted - 09/04/2006 : 11:44:08 AM
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Yeah, I'm defiantly going to call them on Tuesday. As everyone knows, Mitchell state's that these particular Rifles have been overhauled (Restored), so I'll ask them when and by whom. Whether or not they'll give me some straight answers is anyone's guess. I don't have a problem with Restored Guns, so long as they are represented as such, but a few comments about Fake Numbering/Stamps Etc is nothing short of fraudulent, and contrary to Mitchell's own advertising on these K98's. My initial feeling is that these are probably as advertised. IE-Overhauled Guns to include a Refinished Stock, Polished Bolts, and a Blue Job. However, compared to the price of a totally rebuilt MILTECH Rifle, the Mitchell's IMO are priced right.
Actually, I do have interest in one of the Mauser Tanker Rifle's in .308 :)


lionhart
Gunboards Member



29 Posts
Posted - 09/04/2006 : 11:51:21 AM
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From their Website:


quote:
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All rifles have been factory overhauled and preserved in military storage since mid-1945. Now to comply with U.S. insurance regulations, all rifles are torn-down, re-examined, cleaned and tested for fit, function, appearance and completeness.
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From what Mitchell has stated, these Rifle's were overhauled sometime in '45 prior to being placed in Storage. Then each was taken apart, "CLEANED" (What ever they mean by that) and Re-Assembled. I'll have to ask what "CLEANED" means...

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE COLLECTORS K98 at $500.00 AND THE PREMIUM AT $700.00? Anyone know? I'm Guessing the Premium come's with goodies?

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Edited by - lionhart on 09/04/2006 11:53:41 AM


alamo
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
413 Posts
Posted - 09/04/2006 : 12:17:02 PM
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Here's what they say on the Mitchell's site:

"All rifles have been factory overhauled and preserved in military storage since mid-1945. Now to comply with U.S. insurance regulations, all rifles are torn-down, re-examined, cleaned and tested for fit, function, appearance and completeness."

http://www.mauser.org/rifles/german_k98/index.htm

Why is it the imported milsurp rifles sold by AIM, SOG, etc. aren't torn down, cleaned, tested, etc. "to comply with U.S. insurance regulations"?? This is the kind of nonsense that makes people rightfully suspicious of Mitchell's. I wonder if they were "factory overhauled" in Russia?

Here's what Mitchell's says about their more outrageously priced 98Ks with their "velvet-lined presentation cases":

"These few rifles have been retrieved and restored to original military-new condition by K-98 specialists in Germany using only the original parts."

http://www.mauser.org/rifles/hist_k98/index.htm




n/a
deleted



246 Posts
Posted - 09/04/2006 : 1:15:58 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Wurger

You know, that stamp on the butt-stock looks pretty sharp for a sanded and refinished stock...don't it.

In 20 years the typical RC 98ks will probably be worth $2000 and this poor violated (bubba'd) mauser will probably fetch less than the $500 this poor guy payed for it!

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What leads you to this conclusion? I see 100% matching gun's that barely get over a grand after surviving intact for nearly seventy years! am I missing something? should I be stocking up?... I suppose with our current rate of inflation anything's possible, gas will be 50 bucks a gallon by then....


F16CC
Gunboards Premium Member



129 Posts
Posted - 09/04/2006 : 6:17:31 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by martin97


quote:
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Originally posted by Wurger

You know, that stamp on the butt-stock looks pretty sharp for a sanded and refinished stock...don't it.

In 20 years the typical RC 98ks will probably be worth $2000 and this poor violated (bubba'd) mauser will probably fetch less than the $500 this poor guy payed for it!

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What leads you to this conclusion? I see 100% matching gun's that barely get over a grand after surviving intact for nearly seventy years! am I missing something? should I be stocking up?... I suppose with our current rate of inflation anything's possible, gas will be 50 bucks a gallon by then....

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Simple....Supply and demand, along with "percieved" value. "Matching guns barely get over a grand"?? Man, Im moving to wherever you live!!! LOL. I can remember even just 8-10 years ago a numbers matching vet bringback at a gunshow was fairly common at some of the local gunshows here in Colorado. Price??....The most expensive one I saw at the time was $650.00 and it included the capture papers from the U.S. Army. Now with more interest in WW2 and movies like "Saving Private Ryan" and "Band of Brothers", everyone suddenly has a huge interest in these guns. I cant find a single one at a gunshow or shop, and when I do see one they're usually priced at around $900-$1200!!! M1 Garands?? Same thing 10 years ago you could go to a gunshow in Colorado and pick one up for around $350-$450. Now...the cheapest one I've seen lately was $750 for a completley refurbished M1. And an original goes for around $1200 and even a little bit more if it has "Winchester" stamped on the reciever. Why the increase?? Coz everyone wants one now!!!

I truly believe RC are already doing the same thing. 2 years ago I'd see a RC at a gunshow for about$150.00 to maybe $200. This past year I cant find one RC at a gunshow for under $350.00. Russian Captures aint gonna be around forever, and when theyre gone those prices are gonna skyrocket. Which in turn will drive the prices up even more on matching guns. I could easily see RC selling for a grand or more in 10 -15 years. And maybe sooner than that depending on the codes and years. A RC "1937 BSW" for instance, I could easily see selling for around a grand within 5 years...if you can find one.

Mitchells however, I believe will (sadly) eventually go up in "value". Why?? The truth is the majority of the people who buy these guns are not dedicated Mauser collectors or K98 collectors. Most people who buy a Mitchells.."Just want a K98" and sadly despite whatever Mitchells has done to these guns, at the end of the day thats what they are. Theyre still K98s. Will Mitchells ever rise in value?? I would have to say yes...they will...eventually. Maybe not to a dedicated collector of Mausers or K98s....but Im sure in 10-15 years top, there will be a bunch of guys willing to pay $1000 to $1500 for a Mitchells "just coz they want a K98 for the collection."


Reichpapers
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
517 Posts
Posted - 09/04/2006 : 10:07:26 PM
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Once the bringbacks dry up you guys are going to have to collect beany babies or something . Realistically, I think more folks will start collecting RC's as a side dish to their main course. Not sure where the Mitchell's monsterocities will ever fit in, but there is a good chance they will. Who is to say.

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I have nothing, whether informative, witty, or entertaining to add to my signature…


lionhart
Gunboards Member



29 Posts
Posted - 09/05/2006 : 12:28:23 PM
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Called Mitchell today. I was told these K98's were factory overhauled in Germany in mid 1945. I was informed that Mitchell hasn't done anything with the Markings/Bluing etc, ECEEPT when cleaned, the Bolts were polished. I was told all the Markings are authentic, and untouched. I inquired between the differences of the Collector and Premium grade Rifles. The Collector Grade has Handling/Bluing wear, while the Premium Rifle's are in Perfect Condition. I was told the only thing that Mitchell has done was taken each Rifle apart, Cleaned/Inspected, and carry their own Import Stamp. These Rifles were brought into the US from Germany.

DON'T SHOOT THE MESSANGER WITH YOUR K98'S! Thought I'd pass the info along. :)
(Sounded as IF the Collector Grade carries the Original Blue, and the Premium Rifles were Reblued during the "Overhaul" in Mid-'45.



alamo
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
413 Posts
Posted - 09/05/2006 : 8:16:11 PM
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Factory overhauled in Germany in mid-1945? The war ended just a couple of months before. There were captured 98Ks all over the place. Germany was in ruins and a German factory is overhauling 98Ks? For what purpose?

Again, like a lot of stuff Mitchell puts out, it is very fishy. That doesn't mean they're not real 98Ks but the story just doesn't make sense.


F16CC
Gunboards Premium Member



129 Posts
Posted - 09/05/2006 : 8:25:11 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by lionhart

Called Mitchell today. I was told these K98's were factory overhauled in Germany in mid 1945. I was informed that Mitchell hasn't done anything with the Markings/Bluing etc, ECEEPT when cleaned, the Bolts were polished. I was told all the Markings are authentic, and untouched. I inquired between the differences of the Collector and Premium grade Rifles. The Collector Grade has Handling/Bluing wear, while the Premium Rifle's are in Perfect Condition. I was told the only thing that Mitchell has done was taken each Rifle apart, Cleaned/Inspected, and carry their own Import Stamp. These Rifles were brought into the US from Germany.

DON'T SHOOT THE MESSANGER WITH YOUR K98'S! Thought I'd pass the info along. :)
(Sounded as IF the Collector Grade carries the Original Blue, and the Premium Rifles were Reblued during the "Overhaul" in Mid-'45.


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100% pure, Grade A, B.S.!!!!! Mitchells refurbs all their rifles, just like Miltech, and Waffen Arms. The only diffrence between them, is Mitchells LIES about it. It doesnt take a genius to see that the serial stamps, bluing, and sanded wood stocks were done recently, not in "Mid-45".


creepiE
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1768 Posts
Posted - 09/05/2006 : 8:34:25 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by alamo

Factory overhauled in Germany in mid-1945? The war ended just a couple of months before. There were captured 98Ks all over the place. Germany was in ruins and a German factory is overhauling 98Ks? For what purpose?

Again, like a lot of stuff Mitchell puts out, it is very fishy. That doesn't mean they're not real 98Ks but the story just doesn't make sense.

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I have read that they (western Europe) were preparing for war with Russia, keeping unemployed soldiers employed. Don't get me wrong...I do not buy into the MM thing either.

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"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."
~Thomas Jefferson


Josh man
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
855 Posts
Posted - 09/05/2006 : 8:43:54 PM
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Maybe the Germans were overhauling rifles because they knew some one would "just want a K98k".

Talking about the rising prices makes it sound like Armageddon. I will now start getting as many RCs as possible, I kinda like the electric pencil marks. Why would they polish the bolt and mess the rest up, they are only hurting themselves.

I guess they drink the bong water.

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n/a
deleted



246 Posts
Posted - 09/05/2006 : 9:32:03 PM
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F16CC,
1200.00 is barely over a grand... if I was collecting rifles for a future payoff... I would be buying all the matching, or near matching guns while I could... but I do hope your right about the 2000.00 RC's. I have a bunch of them and might fund my retirement...


BP_redbear
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
171 Posts
Posted - 09/05/2006 : 11:30:38 PM
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Perhaps they really mean Russian-occupied EAST Germany?? Which would technically still be 'Germany', wouldn't it? If that's the case, the rifles would be Russian-Capture, but overhauled by whom??

Russians? German prisoners? Stored untouched since then? And held until 2006 for some reason? Just for MEEEEEE???

I have not personally seen a Mitchell's, except in NRA mag and pics posted here, so I cannot speak to any of their work.



F16CC
Gunboards Premium Member



129 Posts
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 01:58:15 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by martin97

F16CC,
1200.00 is barely over a grand... if I was collecting rifles for a future payoff... I would be buying all the matching, or near matching guns while I could... but I do hope your right about the 2000.00 RC's. I have a bunch of them and might fund my retirement...

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HAHA You guys can laugh at me now ....but I'm tellin ya...once those RC are gone...give it a few years... and your gonna be glad you bought a few of them. Will they be worth $10,000 in 10 years time?....nope...but I'm wiling to bet theyll be worth at least 3x to 4x what you paid for them.

yeah $1200 is barely over a grand...but I've seen them sell for much higher and not just on the auction sites.


Josh man
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
855 Posts
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 8:17:40 PM
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BP redbear the answer to your question is the Russian capture rifles were picked up every where, the russians dont waste anything, most came from Berlin, Stalingrad, Kursk and all of these unnamed foxholes somewhere in Russia. They saved all EKs, medals, badges, insignia, flags, helmets, uniforms, gear, and even busts of Hitler. God bless the Russians.

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HerrMesser
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
234 Posts
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 10:24:42 PM
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This is strictly my opinion but I think that the refurb was done by Zastava after the year 2000. If you look at thier ads at the swaz it is not quit right. Look at the coloring of the bolt as compared to the M48 If I'm not mistaken they had a exclusive contract for the socalled tanker. What are the odds that they are new manufactured rifles as there is always that possibility. JUST MY .02

Rad


F16CC
Gunboards Premium Member



129 Posts
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 11:12:33 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
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Originally posted by HerrMesser

This is strictly my opinion but I think that the refurb was done by Zastava after the year 2000. If you look at thier ads at the swaz it is not quit right. Look at the coloring of the bolt as compared to the M48 If I'm not mistaken they had a exclusive contract for the socalled tanker. What are the odds that they are new manufactured rifles as there is always that possibility. JUST MY .02

Rad

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Could very well be....after all, Zastava is making new Mausers for Remington now...


Josh man
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
855 Posts
Posted - 09/07/2006 : 6:18:19 PM
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This is a quote from their ad
"These rifles will become very valuable, Hitler isnt making anymore"

They left out "but we are"

It is very likely that they are being reproduced, look at the way the stock is shaped, it is a little different than the shape of a real K98k"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Skratch
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1347 Posts
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 2:37:11 PM
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I was looking over one of this company's weapons once at a show. A local that had been by their facility commented about seeing cheap labor running wire wheels and grinders there at the industrial zone. This is when they came in the nice wooden box. After that they never quite meant the same to me...


Carpetbagger
Gunboards Member



USA
97 Posts
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 6:12:58 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Come on. Which facility? Who'd you talk to? Local from Serbia? Cheap labor? Wire wheels, grinders. I've been reading this thread for too long now and it gets more and more rediculous. Time to put it to bed already. Mitchell's is getting tons of free advertising via this board.
Carpetbagger


Spitzenmeister
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
572 Posts
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 11:50:15 PM
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One thing I love about MM is how they keep changing their story. At least insofar as to what they are trying to imply. Just my opinion, and this is not what they actually wrote, but their approach to this has evolved into something like this over the years:

1.) It's a wartime German K98k baby!
2.) Scratch that, seems to be a postwar Kar98 made using German machinery. (By who and where, God only knows.)
3.) Er, scratch that too, it's actually a M48, But everyone knows that a M48 is the same thing as a K98k anyway. So let's not split hairs. Mauser schmauser.
4.) Oops, typo, typo, we didn't mean that by comparing a M48 to a K98k that it actually was one. Oh no no no. Just that it has all the advantages of German engineering and workmanship. I mean, its not like it was made by peasants in the Balkans or something. Damn those Germans build a great rifle!
5.) Well, blast it, it looks like those German rifles we've been importing are actually made in Serbia. Someone fire that dude in receiving. Not that it matters, I mean everyone knows that Yugoslavian quality control and engineering is up to the high level of the Germans anyway.
6.) Ok, it looks like a postwar Serbian M48. But did I mention it has the same kind of sight hood as a K98k?

And you've got to love this latest story: a phantom storehouse of rifles that's been in storage since 1945 at an anonymous location, and that they then had them inspected and cleaned for regulations that don't exist, at yet another anonymous site.

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"Nations do not mistrust each other because they are armed, they are armed because they mistrust each other." - Ronald Reagan

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PAGE 3....................................................................................................................

tomlawone
Gunboards Super Premium Member



514 Posts
Posted - 09/10/2006 : 01:36:37 AM
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I know little about Mitchell's Mausers but something about WWII. If they say these rifles were cleaned up or refurbed in Germany in 1945, and then placed in storage until recently, I think that is extremely unlikely. After Germany surrendered, it took a while for the Four Powers to get their partition of Germany together. The Allies controlled all weapons production and storage as fast as they could. So who would be polishing bolts and making rifles look nice? Relations between the Four Powers were not that bad at that time. Who would be creating nice-looking rifles when K98's were everywhere? There must have been plans for a lot of former Nazis parading everywhere. I don't get it. Each of the Four Powers was awash in rifles, so which nation would have created a Mitchell's Mauser to be immediately placed in storage? The last ditch rifles wer rough. Who would have collected the earlier rifles with collectible codes and markings, carefully rehabed them, and then placed them in storage for decades? MM ought to say clearly how these rifles were collected, cleaned up (rehabed), and stored for so many decades, and how they got them. Stored where and by whom?


Josh man
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
855 Posts
Posted - 09/10/2006 : 11:19:52 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you look at their lugers and P38s, they are horribly priced. The French fitted cases, what is the difference then American fitted? On their website they say "These rifles were refurbed to K98 standards by our K98 specialists in Germany" So I guess that some Aryan looking dude with the blue mechanic suit had the oval name tag that says Heinz, with a title on his back "K98 specialist". Mitchells jacks their stories up to make them sound nice.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Josh man
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
855 Posts
Posted - 09/10/2006 : 11:20:56 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you look at their lugers and P38s, they are horribly priced. The French fitted cases, what is the difference with American fitted? On their website they say "These rifles were refurbed to K98 standards by our K98 specialists in Germany" So I guess that some Aryan looking dude with the blue mechanic suit had the oval name tag that says Heinz, with a title on his back "K98 specialist". Mitchells jacks their stories up to make them sound nice.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Josh man
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
855 Posts
Posted - 09/10/2006 : 11:21:26 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you look at their lugers and P38s, they are horribly priced. The French fitted cases, what is the difference with American fitted? On their website they say "These rifles were refurbed to K98 standards by our K98 specialists in Germany" So I guess that some Aryan looking dude with the blue mechanic suit had the oval name tag that says Heinz, with a title on his back "K98 specialist". Mitchells jacks their stories up to make them sound nice.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Skratch
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1347 Posts
Posted - 09/10/2006 : 2:34:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Carpetbagger

Come on. Which facility? Who'd you talk to? Local from Serbia? Cheap labor? Wire wheels, grinders. I've been reading this thread for too long now and it gets more and more rediculous. Time to put it to bed already. Mitchell's is getting tons of free advertising via this board.
Carpetbagger

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An industrial park in Southern California. This guy had driven through and people were grinding away making rifles look "pretty". I believe they are located in Fountain Valley. You might want to swing by for a tour Carpetbagger. I have never been there.


alamo
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
413 Posts
Posted - 09/10/2006 : 6:45:09 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Skratch


An industrial park in Southern California. This guy had driven through and people were grinding away making rifles look "pretty". I believe they are located in Fountain Valley. You might want to swing by for a tour Carpetbagger. I have never been there.

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Did he get to see the SS Death's Head stamp being applied?


Josh man
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
855 Posts
Posted - 09/11/2006 : 7:58:48 PM
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How does mitchells(dont capitalize mitchells, you only capitalize out of respect) get advertizing via this board, we are slamming them.

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