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Discussion Starter #1
Getinthere
Gunboards Super Premium Member



341 Posts
Posted - 03/16/2005 : 5:43:14 PM
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I bought one and it won't chamber a round. The no-go don't work.(good) The go,don't.(bad)The bolt won't close. They are supposed to be as new. It looks great,blueing,stock,etc. but that don't help. Perhaps the head spacing? Anyone have any ideas?

boltactionsforever
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1719 Posts
Posted - 03/16/2005 : 6:12:55 PM
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Hummmmm, if you check down the board a little on this forum you will learn a lot about Mitchell's....

Personally I would send it back to where ever you got it.....do a lot of reading and make another selection...but that is just my very bias opinion about Mitchell's....


FYI



BAF

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"the only way to fix that poor gun my lad"....

"Is to find the time machine that is set to one day before Vic' got his hands on it"


Fightin Scot
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
4002 Posts
Posted - 03/17/2005 : 03:29:43 AM
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I agree, send it back. I personally will NEVER deal with Mitchell's, or buy anything that came from them.

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bda
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
382 Posts
Posted - 03/17/2005 : 08:51:06 AM
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Send it back ASAP, get your money back and RUN AWAY FROM THEM AS FAST AS YOU CAN!! Check out Empire, FAC, AIM, or Cole Dist. for a real German Mauser and pocket the rest of your money.

[sarcasm]I thought if you wanted a "quality mauser" you could count on getting one from Mitchells?[/sarcasm]

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Bryan


Blistex
Gunboards Member



Canada
70 Posts
Posted - 03/17/2005 : 10:11:33 AM
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Mitchell's use their profits to buy and then eat babies, dig up potholes at night, and plant weeds in your lawn when you're away at work.

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I wish I'd stop getting in 3 car pile-ups . . . . And causing them!


palongrifles
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
384 Posts
Posted - 03/17/2005 : 2:52:10 PM
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There ya go! This is a GREAT board for information! The low birth rate, numerous potholes I am seeing, and the weeds in my garden are explained! Always wondered about those weeds and potholes. I wonder, do babies taste like chicken, or like pork? Maybe I'll send Mitchell's an email asking them?

I would think, if somebody wanted a mauser that looked like new, didn't care about any historical aspect, nor that it was bubba-ized, and just wanted a pretty looking shooter Mitchell's might be the way to go. Kinda high priced though. Almost three hundred bucks or more for one of the like new. My local gunshop was selling the same thing for 219. Ya kinda haveta wonder what Mitchell's markup is for themselves when the same thing, from Mitchell's to my gunshop can be priced at 219 and still allow him a profit, eh? MHO anyway.


Bolt Action Man215
Gunboards Member



31 Posts
Posted - 03/17/2005 : 3:54:48 PM
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From my experience They taste like chicken... I mean heck everything does...

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M91/30 PU 1944
m91/30 Izzy 1942
m91/30 Tula 1938
m91/30 Finn Tula 1940
m91/30 Finn Tula 1935
m27 Tikka 1928



Getinthere
Gunboards Super Premium Member



341 Posts
Posted - 03/17/2005 : 5:58:17 PM
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Oh boy. Ya'l made my day. Bummer...


palongrifles
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
384 Posts
Posted - 03/17/2005 : 10:34:52 PM
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Sorry Getinthere. Didn't mean to go off topic, but couldn't resist.
I'd call Mitchell's explain the problem, and tell they you want to return it/exchange it or a refund. They do have some pretty looking Yugos, and though they are bubba-ed beyond any historical collectibility by refinishing, so what. They are nice, usually good shooters. A little overpriced, perhaps, but hey. The rifle you got should function and yours doesnt. Call them, complain, and offer to send it back for exchange. Be nice about it, but firm. I was considering one of the Yugos myself, but decided to go with an RC mauser. Same money, but at least has some historical collectibily even if re-arsenaled (i.e. worked on by Soviet bubbas and refurbished).


Getinthere
Gunboards Super Premium Member



341 Posts
Posted - 03/18/2005 : 7:12:25 PM
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palongrifles,Thanks for the reply. The guy I bought it from is also a gunsmith.(FFL#I) brought it back to him and he is going to check it out. So,I didn't buy direct. I guess I just have to wait and see. Thanks for giving a real answer.


Getinthere
Gunboards Super Premium Member



341 Posts
Posted - 03/18/2005 : 7:16:31 PM
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As an after thought,were the replys from everyone experiance,or hear say?


billt
Gunboards Member



USA
55 Posts
Posted - 03/19/2005 : 10:14:30 AM
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Getinthere,

I've just purchased 2 new Mausers from Mitchell's. Both chamber and shoot factory and handloaded ammo perfectly. If yours won't they will make it right. Their products have a money back guarantee. I'm very pleased with both of my rifles, in spite of the fact of being raked over the coals for buying them on this board. Mitchell's appeals to people that want a nice clean, good shooting Mauser. This they offer. If yours won't they will correct the issue. I'm not into proof marks or other stampings that are "historically correct". I'd rather have a nice clean gun that doesn't look like something you pound into the ground and string barbed wire on. I've heard you can find them cheaper in the same "condition" elsewhere. The problem is when you HAVE a problem. With Mitchell's you have a place to go. Buy from some "cash and carry" distributor, or a gun show huckster, and now what? To the gunsmith you go, and PAY. Put me down as a satisfied Mitchell's customer. If that makes collectors cringe, well, they will get over it. billt


jrobb45
Gunboards Premium Member



199 Posts
Posted - 03/19/2005 : 10:42:20 AM
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billt,
Have you actually had any service dealings with Mitchells?

jrobb


billt
Gunboards Member



USA
55 Posts
Posted - 03/19/2005 : 12:07:35 PM
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Personally, no. But the dealer that handled the transaction for me had sent one back for a customer because for some reason the bayonet they gave him would not attach. They promptly corrected the issue for him. billt


boltactionsforever
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1719 Posts
Posted - 03/19/2005 : 1:01:53 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by billt

Personally, no. But the dealer that handled the transaction for me had sent one back for a customer because for some reason the bayonet they gave him would not attach. They promptly corrected the issue for him. billt

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You have ZERO first hand experiance with there customer service other then second hand information...are aware of two seperate problems and call them good-to-go because of a "expressed warrantee"!
...while neglecting there VERY deceptive advertising---...
...while telling everyone other dealers are fly by night....
Maybe you need to remind yourself who pays to keep these boards running..there called sponcers....HONEST sponcers/Distributors that have ZERO problems supporting the people that support them!..ie; board members


Shall I offer you a lite for your dark cave in this collecting community???

FYI



BAF

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"the only way to fix that poor gun my lad"....

"Is to find the time machine that is set to one day before Vic' got his hands on it"


billt
Gunboards Member



USA
55 Posts
Posted - 03/19/2005 : 1:56:07 PM
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If we're going to speak of second hand information, I'd like to see some FACT to back up some of the criticism I've heard of them, (Mitchell's) on this board. As far as who pays to "keep these boards running". You'd do well to think of that. You make new people here feel as welcome as a 1 legged man in an ass kicking contest! Sick of your arrogance. billt

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Edited by - billt on 03/19/2005 2:01:16 PM


swissmauser
Gunboards Member



USA
26 Posts
Posted - 03/19/2005 : 2:19:42 PM
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billt

I noticed the reception you got with the posts about your new Mitchell's Mausers. It's a shame people rained on your parade- it was clear to me you were happy with what you'd bought and just wanted to do a little show-and-tell like so many on this board.

Stick around- you'll find plenty of helpful people who'll make you feel at home.


Todd A
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
370 Posts
Posted - 03/19/2005 : 2:20:40 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by billt

I'd like to see some FACT to back up some of the criticism I've heard of them, (Mitchell's) on this board.
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Fact a M48 has NO basis on a 98k, differant action length.

From Mitchells online ad..

A “NEW” Mauser, and it’s over 50 years old! A genuine Mauser 98K, the Model M48 is the Strongest and Best of the original bolt-action Rifles.


Then in the same ad,in smaller print bottom of the page is this...

"the Model 48 is recognized as a superior example of the K98 type military rifle."

So which is it? A K98 type? Or a 98k?

Sounds deceptive,don't you think?



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Edited by - Todd A on 03/19/2005 2:21:56 PM


billt
Gunboards Member



USA
55 Posts
Posted - 03/19/2005 : 3:44:10 PM
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"Sounds deceptive,don't you think?"

Only if you enjoy picking fly shit out of pepper. Your not being realistic. Most people, like myself, who purchase rifles from Mitchell's are looking for a nice clean rifle more than they are looking, or caring for that matter, about it being "historically correct". Much like the person who attends a Barret Jackson auction and buys a chopped and channeled 32 Ford Roadster with a Big Block Chevy in it with chrome up the ass. Do you think he really gives a damn if "it's all original" or not? Doubtful. Mitchell's appeals to a certain market. One not shared by you guys who must have everything letter perfect or it's a "FRAUD". I'm sure the tried and true car collecters scoff at the hot rod buyers at Barret Jackson same as you guys do at the Mitchell's shoppers. There is a saying, "to each his own". You need to learn it. billt



Todd A
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
370 Posts
Posted - 03/19/2005 : 5:10:23 PM
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"Only if you enjoy picking fly shit out of pepper."

Big differance...A Kar98k in German condition is about a $600 rifle,plus or minus depending on certain factors your not interested in. A m48,while a decent rifle, is a $99 dollar rifle.

If I advertised a Cadillac on the net,but was really selling a Lincoln would that be OK? Both will get you where you wanted to go,and the only differance is in the markings right?


Geologist
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
102 Posts
Posted - 03/19/2005 : 5:21:37 PM
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I wonder why Mitchells Mausers are never advertised in Shotgun News....

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Geogunner


billt
Gunboards Member



USA
55 Posts
Posted - 03/19/2005 : 5:37:32 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Geologist

I wonder why Mitchells Mausers are never advertised in Shotgun News....

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Most likely the same reason S&W doesn't advertise their new .500 Magnum Revolver there. They have enough buyers to the point it doesn't require it. They ARE advertised in Dillon's "Blue Press" catalog. If there ever was a "no bullshit" guy, it's Mike Dillon. Or is he a "fraud" in your circles also???? billt


billt
Gunboards Member



USA
55 Posts
Posted - 03/19/2005 : 5:51:54 PM
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"A m48,while a decent rifle, is a $99 dollar rifle."

Do you honestly think there are distributors out there with a truckload of rifles of the same quality Mitchell's sells who could dispense of them at a good profit for $99??? Where are they? Why aren't they advertising in Shotgun News, or anywhere else for that matter? J&G Sales, who is famous for selling junk at high prices, advertises Yugo Mausers in "almost new" condition for $139.00. Then turns right around and offers "hand select" versions of the same gun for $10.00 more. If they are so "new", why do they need "hand selection"??? Talk about deceptive. billt



Getinthere
Gunboards Super Premium Member



341 Posts
Posted - 03/19/2005 : 6:50:19 PM
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billt,You made my day. I may have got the bad apple in the barrel. I do agree with your posts. The guy I got it from said he sold 50 of them. Unfortunatly,mine was the 'odd' ball. Things happen.


ditch68
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
340 Posts
Posted - 03/19/2005 : 9:06:22 PM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by swissmauser

billt

I noticed the reception you got with the posts about your new Mitchell's Mausers. It's a shame people rained on your parade- it was clear to me you were happy with what you'd bought and just wanted to do a little show-and-tell like so many on this board.

Stick around- you'll find plenty of helpful people who'll make you feel at home.

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Well, I hope you all didn't think my post was running billt off, I thought I made it clear that my intention was to explain the difference between the "k98" board, and "Military Mauser" board, and also to welcome him, and say "to each his own" is OK, and enjoy your rifles.

Do y'all work for Mitchell's, or what? The way you guys defend them, it seems that way! (before you flame me,let me say I am K I D D I N G.)

The people who regularly post here don't generally purchase Mitchell's products, and the reasons have been clearly stated, so if you are surprised by the reaction - and offended - I'd say (again) that this is the wrong place for discussion of their product line.

To each his own, indeed! Cripes, everybody just relax.

Jeff



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"Never say Never"
11B
Visit my website on Czech produced German small arms -
http://www.cagedlion.com





boltactionsforever
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1719 Posts
Posted - 03/20/2005 : 12:09:54 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by billt

If we're going to speak of second hand information, I'd like to see some FACT to back up some of the criticism I've heard of them, (Mitchell's) on this board. As far as who pays to "keep these boards running".
You'd do well to think of that.
I do and purchase my M48's from AIM's/IO--both sponcers and I recommend that everyone does the same--most members do!..You make new people here feel as welcome as a 1 legged man in an ass kicking contest! Sick of your arrogance. Too each there own--and enjoy your mitchells rebuilt newly stocked m48 Yugo mauser billt

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Lets see...your looking for acceptance from the k98 COLLECTING community for a m48 Mitchell's mauser----You will not change the collectors minds because the deception from Mitchell's has taken place FOREVER...Not just sense you purchased your m48---Many of us have been around here for years---and have followed the evolution of Mitchell's--and not much has changed in my mind---There still deceptive advertising and most people truely believe they bought some rare unissued German piece(or WWII piece) of history (remember this is a collecting k98 community as the heading say's) until they get the clear picture from long time collectors....

The gun boards clearly states...."By collectors for collectors"...
Which I dont have a problem with someone collecting m48's(I have a few--NOT Mitchell's rebuilds), but someone trying to find acceptance for your position about the Mitchell's m48's in the k98 forum is pretty tough egg to crack....so far I definately do not think you understand where the majority of posters are coming from--these are NOT k98 German mausers as there deceptive advertising may want you to believe......As has been said before, you may have a lot more acceptance in the mauser forum...not the k98 forum with Mitchell's guns because they are NOT A GERMAN K98 MAUSER...

And I am sure many posters first insert there m48's here because they do not know the difference between m48's/vs/K98's--deceptive Mitchells advertising is the bottom line....
And my guess is you did not even know yourself as to the history of the m48 Yugo rebuilt mausers until you posted here---or atleast I would hope you learned a little about your gun...But as far as a Mitchell's Mauser being a part of the "collectable k98" its net worth is that of a happy meal...As a remchester looking military mauser, there pretty nice looking if you (as you stated) have zero interest in the history collectability....

And I wish everyone who own's a Mitchell's Mauser to enjoy them for what they are, but just dont look for the die-hard k98 collecting community to support your post-war rebuilt/restocked remchester looking military mausers...for the same reason you enjoy your Mitchell's Mauser, this is the reason the collecting community rejects them....Nothing wrong with either side, but I know which side of the fence I enjoy---The one with the history and the solid investment that will pay off big time and have a steady increase in value year after year----unlike my Model 700

FYI



BAF

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"the only way to fix that poor gun my lad"....

"Is to find the time machine that is set to one day before Vic' got his hands on it"


Geologist
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
102 Posts
Posted - 03/20/2005 : 12:33:04 PM
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I have to agree, M48s are post-war and are quite different in MANY way to K98s. They are not really collectable unless you have some Bosnian relics or sniper variants. Some of the unissued M48s (of which I bought 5 of from Coles in '99 for $100 apeice including bayo, sling etc.) are good shooters and not valued for collectors.

Discussion of M48 mausers does not belong on THIS forum

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Geogunner


billt
Gunboards Member



USA
55 Posts
Posted - 03/20/2005 : 1:20:01 PM
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"Lets see...your looking for acceptance from the k98 COLLECTING community for a m48 Mitchell's mauser"

Let's get something straight, because this silly bullshit has gone on long enough. I'm not "looking for acceptance" from ANYONE, let alone you! I just thought I'd post a few photos of a couple of rifles I purchased for those who might care to take a look. THATS IT. Then a fellow posted a problem with a like rifle and was looking for a little help, and or, reassurance. Next thing you clowns are all over the both of us like stink on dog shit! OK, so I posted this, and he asked his question, on "the wrong forum". Pardon us all to hell! I'm done here! billt


HerrMesser
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
234 Posts
Posted - 03/20/2005 : 2:18:59 PM
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In this day and age some people are so narrow minded that they cannot take criticism. And sometimes the critics can be extreemly harsh. I lurked on these forums a long time before I joined, and sometimes I get the feeling that if you aren't in the right click trying to get info is like pulling hens teeth. At least he did get a welcome, which is more than I ever got.


My .02 for what it's worth.


Rad

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NRA Life Member

It's all mind over matter, if you don't mind it doesn't matter


jwh2
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
726 Posts
Posted - 03/20/2005 : 2:26:20 PM
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Mitchell's adds are just plain deceptive, if not just flat out lies. The Yugo M48 was never a K98, was never built on "German" machinery, and never built by Germans.

The Yugos bought about 40K FN M1924 rifles and the machinery to built them in the mid-20's. They are a 98 'Style' action but are intermediate in length, NOT a standard length action as the K98k.

The Yugo's rebuilt the M1924 rifle into the 24/47 in the late 40's. THEN came the M48, which based upon peoples comments about them, were inferior to the M1924 or 24/47. Rough machining, sticky bolts, all that.

Soooo...the K98 forum isn't the place for a discussion of the M48 or Mitchell's. Simple as that.

Joe




jrobb45
Gunboards Premium Member



199 Posts
Posted - 03/20/2005 : 2:32:04 PM
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Why doesn't everybody just keep piling on and keep going on about how the K98 forum isn't for discussing M-48's? The moderators should have moved this thread a long time ago and maybe eliminated some of the carping.

jrobb


Geologist
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
102 Posts
Posted - 03/20/2005 : 3:05:20 PM
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To be human is to carp. We will find ANY way to carp. Cyber-group mentality.

I, too, read these forums for many years before joining, mostly because I learned so much from them. Especially where to find data online.

Billt---Please don't go away mad...Read these forums and learn. Remember, it was your post that dragged out a lot of comment and information on what Mitchells Mausers IS and IS'NT. Therefore, the value of your original post with photographs was great, after all, to the K98 forum.

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Geogunner


Getinthere
Gunboards Super Premium Member



341 Posts
Posted - 03/20/2005 : 6:37:43 PM
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Well said billt.Enough of these armchair 'collector,gunsmiths' At least they'feel'good. A forum is most likely the only place where they can show their 'expertizzzzze. I still hope to have a good shooter just the same.Enjoy yours!


sandmountainslim
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
367 Posts
Posted - 03/20/2005 : 7:48:09 PM
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I started to buy a Mitchell Mauser from a local gunsmith a couple years ago and will admit the ones I saw were very attractive looking rifles, probably very good ones too, however I do not like them being advertised as K98 rifles which they are not, instead of the Mitchell I bought two RC K98s which though not "new" are K98 rifles just modified a bit by the Russkies, I would suggest an RC over Mitchell but thats just my opinion.
SMS

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Jefferson Republican Party
http://sandmountain.proboards107.com/index.cgi?board=politics
http://jeffersonrepublicanparty.com
The TRUE Party of Jefferson and Freedom!


Blistex
Gunboards Member



Canada
70 Posts
Posted - 03/20/2005 : 10:09:42 PM
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If you have any doubt as to how shady they are then do the following.

1. Call them.
2. Act like a total gun noob.
3. Tell them you only have $200
4. Tell them you want a rifle that the Germans used in WWII.

$50 says they try and pawn an M-48 off on you as an authentic WWII German rifle!

Also tell a collector with a straight face that their "nazi/ss" rifles havn't been re-stamped.

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I wish I'd stop getting in 3 car pile-ups . . . . And causing them!


Spitzenmeister
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
572 Posts
Posted - 03/21/2005 : 12:07:35 AM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by billt

You make new people here feel as welcome as a 1 legged man in an ass kicking contest! Sick of your arrogance. billt

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Bill T, you’re clearly a Mitchell Mausers’ employee, or one of their sycophants. Your writing style is even similar to one of the MM customer service people who replied to me on a credibility issue I raised. (By the way, you still sound like an idiot.) However, your company marketing scheme is organized and clever (although deceitful IMO), so good luck with your business in any event.

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"Nations do not mistrust each other because they are armed, they are armed because they mistrust each other." - Ronald Reagan


TTengineer
Gunboards Premium Member



213 Posts
Posted - 03/21/2005 : 12:24:46 AM
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Flaming isn't going to solve anything.


ditch68
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
340 Posts
Posted - 03/21/2005 : 01:01:36 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by TTengineer

Flaming isn't going to solve anything.

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Perhaps not, but I believe Spitzenmeister nailed this one. Who on earth would defend this rabble without a vested interest in doing so?

I couldn't help but notice that despite many friendly and unoffensive remarks encouraging him to do so, there have been NO comments posted on the Military mausers forum touting the wonderful qualities of the fine Mitchell's product so shamelessly, dare i say, advertised here.

Methinks billt = troll, with a bent towrds free Mitchell's ad space.

Jeff

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"Never say Never"
11B
Visit my website on Czech produced German small arms -
http://www.cagedlion.com




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Edited by - ditch68 on 03/21/2005 01:05:36 AM


billt
Gunboards Member



USA
55 Posts
Posted - 03/21/2005 : 10:12:36 AM
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"Spitzenmeister"
"ditch68"

This is getting more hilarious by the minute! I'll let both of you 2 scholars in on a little something a 10 year old could figure out. Tell me how I could "work for Mitchell's" when I live in Arizona, Glendale to be exact, (Click on my name), and Mitchell's is in Fountain Valley, California???? Thats only a 350 mile commute. I hope to hell you possess more common sense than this when you handle guns! billt


ditch68
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
340 Posts
Posted - 03/21/2005 : 11:01:47 AM
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...and yet again, I say - You like the rifles. Great. You feel it was a fair deal. Great.

They are M48 yugos, and you recognize this. Wonderful.

You have 14 posts at this point, and all of them are about Mitchell's Mausers company and products being wonderful. Super.

Please reread all of my posts on this issue. I never once, before the above one, had anything negative to say about you, your decision to spend your money how you want to, or your comments to other people regarding their opinions on the subject.

I advised you to post on the Military Mauser forum, where you would undoubtably find a much more warm reception regarding your rifles. (Which you have not). I meant this in earnest. I thought I was being polite and helpful.

I can only conclude that you are posting here - and here alone - not to discuss these rifles, but to stir up contention, and watch the fur fly. That is by definition, being a "troll", which is what I meant by my statement. Whether you work for Mitchell's or not is irrelevant. My comments regarding your employment were intended to be tongue-in-cheek.

You are passionately defending something that clearly is not popular here. Wouldn't your time be better spent discussing this subject with people who may engage in a positive discussion with you?

I am not an elitist snobby armchair expert, I am always learning, and love these boards for picking up knowledge. But I wouldn't ask questions about Japanese Type 99 Arisakas here. My area of interest is the K98k rifle. Never mind the whole "Mitchell's" marketing issue.

You could have typed "Mars" in your profile if you so chose, it proves nothing. I don't think you work there, but you have to admit you sure are waving their flag quite a bit, so you may understand some of the suspicion.

Jeff





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Never say Never"
11B
Visit my website on Czech produced German small arms -
http://www.cagedlion.com





pzjgr
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
274 Posts
Posted - 03/21/2005 : 12:46:49 PM
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Yeah, Mitchell Mausers are clowns. They definitely do try to make people think they are getting a 98k for little money. You know how many people I see at gun shows walking around their Mitchell Mausers telling everyone "I have a real nice German 98k I want to trade". When you ask them where it is, and they hand you the Mitchell, its hard not to laugh at them...then you have to break the news that their "WWII German 98k" is just a post war Yugo gun that isn't close to being a WWII 98k.

Yeah, if you read their ad closely enough, and you have a little knowledge, you can see through it. Unfortunately they prey upon many people who don't know squat....

Personally I think they sell overpriced, overhyped junk and try to pull the wool over peoples eyes to boot....


jrobb45
Gunboards Premium Member



199 Posts
Posted - 03/21/2005 : 3:53:05 PM
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"it's hard not to laugh at them". I would bet there are people who've felt the same about you.

jrobb


Spitzenmeister
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
572 Posts
Posted - 03/21/2005 : 9:17:41 PM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by billt

This is getting more hilarious by the minute! I'll let both of you 2 scholars in on a little something a 10 year old could figure out. Tell me how I could "work for Mitchell's" when I live in Arizona, Glendale to be exact, (Click on my name), and Mitchell's is in Fountain Valley, California???? Thats only a 350 mile commute. I hope to hell you possess more common sense than this when you handle guns! billt

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As my esteemed fellow scholar Jeff (aka ditch68) has already pointed out, you can enter anything you want for those parameters in your profile. The only thing I can add is that IMO your arguments are so far out there, I’d say Neptune is more appropriate than Mars. It’s also ironic you mention 10-year olds, because they are perhaps the only ones who buy into the Mitchell’s advertising claptrap.

And the more I read your replies, the more I’m convinced you’re one of their nodding donkeys (La Keitel).

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"Nations do not mistrust each other because they are armed, they are armed because they mistrust each other." - Ronald Reagan


Getinthere
Gunboards Super Premium Member



341 Posts
Posted - 03/22/2005 : 08:16:04 AM
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With all the 'experts' out there,not one ancwered my first thread.Except palongrifles.What a BIG help you's guys are. But don't bother now. I am a little skeptical, as you can well understand. (not just with my Mitchell)


bda
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
382 Posts
Posted - 03/22/2005 : 08:36:55 AM
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A few of us said to send it back for a full refund and get either a K98 or another M-48 from a trusted source....

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Bryan


billt
Gunboards Member



USA
55 Posts
Posted - 03/22/2005 : 09:40:03 AM
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"As my esteemed fellow scholar Jeff (aka ditch68) has already pointed out, you can enter anything you want for those parameters in your profile."

Don't reach for shit that isn't there to justify your foolish, nit wit accusations. My E-Mail address is also listed. Cox Communications does NOT provide high speed internet service to the L.A. Basin. But as I said, it would take a 10 year old mentality to figure that out. You 2 put together are about 8 years shy. billt


billt
Gunboards Member



USA
55 Posts
Posted - 03/22/2005 : 09:44:38 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by jrobb45

"it's hard not to laugh at them". I would bet there are people who've felt the same about you.

jrobb

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Isn't that the truth. billt


zorares
Starting Member



USA
1 Posts
Posted - 03/22/2005 : 10:00:35 AM
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Well, I bought an M48 from them a couple of years ago and I'm very happy with the rifle. Accurate, and it shoots all sorts of 8mm rounds from new to surplus. This year I picked up a Tokarev SVT40 with WWII sniper scope mounted onto it. Had a problem with it not reloading and Mitchell's quickly fixed the problem. Sure, I paid a bit more than I should have for both rifles but I also learned a lot about both rifles. Since then, I've picked up another M48 at a gun show and a VZ Mauser at a gun show. Paid half for the m48 at the gun show than I did for the Mitchells but it's not in as good of shape as the Mitchells. The Czech VZ is going to be taken apart to build a new rifle. I guess what I'm saying, Mitchell's isn't a bad company to deal with but like anything, it helps to know what you're buying.


boltactionsforever
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1719 Posts
Posted - 03/22/2005 : 11:33:05 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Getinthere

With all the 'experts' out there,not one ancwered my first thread.Except palongrifles.What a BIG help you's guys are. But don't bother now. I am a little skeptical, as you can well understand. (not just with my Mitchell)

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Are you asking for technical advise/ or how to fix it yourself???Your original question was pretty general... A general question you asked normally you will get a general answer which obviously is not the response you where looking for--If you want to know what to look for or how to fix it ....ASK...
If you are 100% satisfied that your ammo is ok--then follow along
Technically the problems you are incurring are caused by severe headspace issues/chamber dimensional problems/final fitting issues with the extractor or a gun simply chambered in a different round...Bottom line is, this gun was obviously not safety inspected (quality control issues--Yep)...

I would opt for a replacement period---not a repair job...This is why many people have recommended that you take a step back and evaluate your purchase before proceeding into another Mitchell's Mauser

I could write a lengthy book on Mitchell's and there deceit and what I call out right fraud to the collecting community and this is where the negative postings are coming from---Most people dont give a rats-ass why you chose to purchase or WHY you choose to purchased a Mitchell's mauser---But the recommendation is, return it...Most people in the collecting community "try" to look after each-other and just hate when some unexpecting new-bee starts to look for there German Mitchell Mausers history---it's a sad event that happens all to many time--As stated above, way to many people carry them into gun shows looking for matching k98 dollar prices for a Mitchell's retail $400.00 gun--it's NOT there period and hard feeling are had by all!

Think about the unexpecting k98 purchaser who calls Mitchell's and orders one of the "RARE" death-head all matching mausers for $10,000....then somewhere down the line, 2 or 3 owners down the line 100 years from now find out there HUGE investment into a fake k98 was done by some unknown company called "Mitchell's Mausers"...There is no difference between a wall hanging high dollar art pieces and historical valued rifles period!!!....And here we have a KNOWN fraud artist "making" k98's to suit there marketing practices....Many people see no difference between that $10,000 faked k98 German death-head example and the $300-$400 asking price for a post war rebuilt/restocked m48 Mitchell's mauser in a glorified German looking packaging....deceit/fraud and that is why people have recommended taking a hard-long look at your investment before making any decission.....


What ever decission the owners of Mitchell's Mausers have/take---enjoy what you got and my firm bet is in your future you will look back on these posts and say...."hey--those ass-holes had some valid points back then-"...Expecially when you go to sell it--$150.00 dollar guns in most everyones eyes without any near future of your investment appreciating!...and your dollars went where??? Into a professional fraudulant marketing company called Mitchell's Mausers--

People---they look great for a shooter Mauser without any true military history--I guess maybe we should call them civilian post war mausers--- That would be pretty accurate ---



FYI



BAF

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"the only way to fix that poor gun my lad"....

"Is to find the time machine that is set to one day before Vic' got his hands on it"

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Edited by - boltactionsforever on 03/22/2005 11:42:38 AM


pzjgr
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
274 Posts
Posted - 03/22/2005 : 4:23:14 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by jrobb45

"it's hard not to laugh at them". I would bet there are people who've felt the same about you.

jrobb

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Hey, you know, there are plenty of gun show dealers out there who are assholes. And there are plenty of gun show patrons who are just as big assholes.

Look, I'm not a full time dealer, just a guy who is a militaria collector who goes to gun shows to sell off extra stuff and have fun. I don't laugh at people, or treat them poorly. I don't even deal with guns save the odd example I may be selling from my collection. But you do see people who don't know a mauser from a hole in the ground, and sometimes it is comical.

You know how many people call any pistol their "granpappy" brought back a Luger....I have seen Femaru, HSC, 38H, and P-38 Lugers. And I have seen people walk in thinking their Mitchel Mauser was some sort of desireable, high price collector piece. You see all sorts of odd things, including the last show I did where a guy walks in with a rusty piece of junk 91/30 that was sitting in the family basement since the end of the war pretty much....thought it was "a kraut rifle" his grandfather brought back. Interesting thing was he had the capture papers with the s/n of the rifle on it....first I ever saw a 91/30 with capture papers.

Trust me, stand on the other side of the table a while, and see how many belligerant idiots you can take who walk up to you and demand a ridiculous price on a piece of junk that isn't worth anything. It can be very frustrating. But I always bite my tongue, and just respond with a respectful, "thanks for showing it to me, but I have to pass for now".


Getinthere
Gunboards Super Premium Member



341 Posts
Posted - 03/22/2005 : 6:08:28 PM
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PZ. Good post. I agree with you. I have been to so many gun shows.... I am glad a lot of times it is me on the other side. A lot of these dealers are a bunch of BS.$$$$.It helps to know a thing or two.
I got a bad deal so far. But no matter what Mitchell may say(false advertising,sue em then) or whatever,for the price,go out and find a good rifle for hunting etc.in such good shape,$$$$$$.You can do the same with Mosins and other Mausers,Enfields etc. I have a bunch.I don't think any of these guys have a Mitchell. They do have a lot to say.' Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder'

PAGE 2...................................................................................................................


Geologist
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
102 Posts
Posted - 03/23/2005 : 10:53:42 AM
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There are three industries that have found profit through necessity throughout all recorded time. These are Prostitution, the Mining Industry and the Gun Bazaar.

The Gun Bazaar has not changed one iota in this long history. Suckers are spotted instantly and attempts made to remove all money from them "legally".

Each time I go to a gun show, I always have to hide my woody so nobody can see it. Ahhh, the smell of metal, old leather, oily guns..... Gun shows bring out the wood in us all. It is the proverbial "he who hides his wood the best, will carry home the best deal"

If you let your wood speak for you, you will marry an ugly chick early in life and buy from Mitchells Mausers.

Let the buyer beware.

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Geogunner


boltactionsforever
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1719 Posts
Posted - 03/23/2005 : 11:25:52 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Geologist

There are three industries that have found profit through necessity throughout all recorded time. These are Prostitution, the Mining Industry and the Gun Bazaar.

The Gun Bazaar has not changed one iota in this long history. Suckers are spotted instantly and attempts made to remove all money from them "legally".

Each time I go to a gun show, I always have to hide my woody so nobody can see it. Ahhh, the smell of metal, old leather, oily guns..... Gun shows bring out the wood in us all. It is the proverbial "he who hides his wood the best, will carry home the best deal"

If you let your wood speak for you, you will marry an ugly chick early in life and buy from Mitchells Mausers.
Let the buyer beware.

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MAN....Geologist you owe me a new key-board....I think I hacked up a Mitchell's and spit it all over my key-board!

Bottom line is well stated....Let the buyer beware.


FYI



BAF

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"the only way to fix that poor gun my lad"....

"Is to find the time machine that is set to one day before Vic' got his hands on it"


Getinthere
Gunboards Super Premium Member



341 Posts
Posted - 03/23/2005 : 8:31:41 PM
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Very poor


Fletch
Gunboards Super Premium Member



South Africa
435 Posts
Posted - 03/24/2005 : 07:47:19 AM
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So, after reading all the above I have come to the conclusion that I have a Mitchells mauser which was "falsely" advertised by agents here in South Africa. I have learned a lot from the above and now know that this M48 mauser is not a K98, so be it. It shoots well and is a representative Mauser. I am more of a collector of British firearms but wanted a representative axis power WW2 mauser. Let the buyer beware is very appropriate. As stated prevously the above postings were informative and entertaining. I will however be reverting back to the Briish firearms/ Lee Enfeild forums.


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Who's been stiring up the natives


Getinthere
Gunboards Super Premium Member



341 Posts
Posted - 03/24/2005 : 8:21:30 PM
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geologist,As far as main industries,proliferation of prison industries(building new ones with persononel'prisoners' is #1. The other force in industry consists of replacing American factories and American workers,along with the elimination of jobs and the entire industries. I n the end,Americans have been replaced by foreigners. Plus,once totally owned American companies are not American owned by Americans,but still have the same name. You live in some make believe world. You can have your prostitutes.Gun shows are fun though.


Brundlefly
Starting Member



3 Posts
Posted - 03/23/2006 : 04:49:51 AM
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Hi all... First time post... I have a quick question... The NRA magazine "First Freedom" (April, 2006, p. 55) is advertising a "new*" Mauser 98k Model m48 from "Mitchell's Mausers" for $300... Setting aside the issue of collectors' value (I DON'T CARE ABOUT THAT AT ALL!)... Is this a GOOD gun? Is it RELIABLE. Has it been REWORKED? Is it ACCURATE?

I'm just hoping to find a rock-solid, like-new, accurate deer rifle for $300...

Many thanks in advance for any help or direction you can give me...


EricOKC
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
2314 Posts
Posted - 03/23/2006 : 09:14:10 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
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Originally posted by Brundlefly

Hi all... First time post... I have a quick question... The NRA magazine "First Freedom" (April, 2006, p. 55) is advertising a "new*" Mauser 98k Model m48 from "Mitchell's Mausers" for $300... Setting aside the issue of collectors' value (I DON'T CARE ABOUT THAT AT ALL!)... Is this a GOOD gun? Is it RELIABLE. Has it been REWORKED? Is it ACCURATE?

I'm just hoping to find a rock-solid, like-new, accurate deer rifle for $300...

Many thanks in advance for any help or direction you can give me...

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Brundle,
It's a good gun, is not re-worked, is reliable, and accurate.
If they were perhaps half that price, I'd buy one for what it really is, but the hyperbole is adding dollars to their rifles.
Still, I'd go online and look for M48/48A's that don't have the hoopla surrounding them and sell for much less than $300.00.
Very good M48A's (which tend to have a smoother action than the 48's) are going for about $110.00, in very good shape...and you'll not have to worry about damaging the rifle when lugging it around.

Eric



Brundlefly
Starting Member



3 Posts
Posted - 03/23/2006 : 11:26:22 AM
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Thanks Eric!!! This confirmed what I was thinking... The Mitchell Mauser isn't a bad gun at all... It just isn't a true-blue collector's piece, and it probably is somewhat overpriced...

Anyone have any suggestions concerning the best use of $300 (max... less is better!) when it comes to buying a proven, rock-solid, accurate, bolt action deer rifle in "like-new" condition. I don't care if the stock is dinged up... I'm just looking for a shooter with excellent mechanics/barrel. I don't care where the thing was made.

Does anyone have any recommendations for dealers other than Mitchell?

Thanks again for your guidance guys... I used to collect functional, "work horse" guns a long time ago, and now I'm trying to get back into the game...


Waldensian
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
258 Posts
Posted - 03/23/2006 : 7:04:46 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Brundlefly

Thanks Eric!!! This confirmed what I was thinking... The Mitchell Mauser isn't a bad gun at all... It just isn't a true-blue collector's piece, and it probably is somewhat overpriced...

Anyone have any suggestions concerning the best use of $300 (max... less is better!) when it comes to buying a proven, rock-solid, accurate, bolt action deer rifle in "like-new" condition. I don't care if the stock is dinged up... I'm just looking for a shooter with excellent mechanics/barrel. I don't care where the thing was made.

Does anyone have any recommendations for dealers other than Mitchell?

Thanks again for your guidance guys... I used to collect functional, "work horse" guns a long time ago, and now I'm trying to get back into the game...

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Boy, did you come to the right place.

In the "under $300 workhorse deer hunting gun" category, you have lots and lots of great choices in milsurps, and you get some history to boot. Stocks will be dinged but "like new" actions definitely can be found. For example, I have a rearsenaled M-44 Mosin and an (apparent) vet bringback Carcano Cavalry Carbine that look like they've never been fired. Both well under $300, and the Mosin even has a gorgeous stock!

I don't know a single deer who would look forward to being on the receiving end of either of these fine and historic weapons. I might gravitate toward Mosins just because ammo is really cheap.

If you buy one of these rifles, or any number of other milsurps, from a well known gunboard member who vouches for its accuracy and condition, it would be very hard to go wrong.


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Downtown Ishevsk


Coogan
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
2532 Posts
Posted - 03/23/2006 : 7:29:46 PM
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Go with an Finnish M39 Mosin. As accurate as hell out of the box with surplus ammo. Go to

http://www.gunsnammo.com

Check out the offerings. The bonus? They are antiques, so all you need is a DL!

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Semper Fi,
Mike
Sergeant, USMCR 2111
1997-2004

Looking for:
Australian Enfields (produced or marked)
Slovak marked vz.24
Persian 98/29 Mauser
Remington Mosin rifles or Mosin rifles built on Remington receivers


EricOKC
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
2314 Posts
Posted - 03/24/2006 : 08:26:20 AM
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Brundle,
I'll second the M39 Mosin Nagant as an under $300.00 hunting rifle.
Although mine is an "unissued" B barrel, you can get them for well less than what one of those runs. (And I bought mine a few years back before prices really went up.)

Good variety of modern hunting rounds being made for 7.62 x 54, and a soft point 148 grain or so, has just been introduced.

M39's are a match grade rifle, and the sight system far surpasses the mauser's.

7.62 x 54 milsurp is in abundant supply, and very affordable.

Eric


Jimwhitley6
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
649 Posts
Posted - 03/24/2006 : 11:52:46 AM
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Or if you're wanting a Mauser you could look around for a Yugoslavian rearsenalled K98k. There's a big difference between a Yugoslavian K98k and an M48. That difference is that a Yugoslavian K98k was made by the Germans during the second world war and was captured by the Yugoslavians, refurbished, had some of the Nazi markings buffed off and then was put into storage. I got mine for $165 plus shipping.

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K98 CE44
K31 '52
LB No. 4 Mk I* '42
Erfurt P08 '1911
Izhevsk 91/30 '37
'53 CZ52
'85 Walther P1


Brundlefly
Starting Member



3 Posts
Posted - 03/27/2006 : 9:40:54 PM
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Hi again,

Well it certainly sounds like the Mosin Nagant m39 is a superb buy...

Any other thoughts on reliable, rock-solid, accurate, cheap ($300 or under), milsurp deer rifles from anywhere in the world?

Thanks again guys for the help... Lord knows I can use it!


torp.ss
Gunboards Super Premium Member



313 Posts
Posted - 03/27/2006 : 10:37:18 PM
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I don't want to step in here and get my ars handed to me for telling someone to do their own gunsmithing but,If you can't return it and don't have access to a gunsmith here is what may be your problem with not chambering a round. I have ran into this with 2 RC 98k.Hold the bolt looking at the face with bolt handle straight up. On the right you will see there are 2 projections, one above the ejector notch and one below. The botton projection might be where your problen is. Compair it to a bolt that works and see if yours is a lot larger.If it is your cartridge rim may be contacting it to soon and binding up. I have seen this on 2 bolts that I believe were new and just thrown into a RC without any final work.Altho yours is not a RC it may be the same problem.I repaired both with the use of a dremmel drill and a cone shaped burr, a LITTLE at a time and without contacting the bolt face. The projection winds up being a pie shape with the small part being at the bottom. You might check this, I hope this helps.


craig61a
Gunboards Premium Member



243 Posts
Posted - 03/30/2006 : 8:31:04 PM
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In all fairness, there are plenty of websites that mention this rifle as a 1948 98K Mauser Model M48. SurplusRifle, Chuck Hawks are just some of the few. It was made with the same machinery that made the Model 98 for the Nazi's. A shorter action and different top handguard and no bolt disassembly hole are basically the only difference; as a matter of fact the M48 is probably one of the more robust 98K variants in that it was made with the best materials and workmanship, since there was no war on. Many of the later 98K's had problems due to the war and the slave laborers making the rifles ( sabotage such as improper heat treatment ). I'll agree that Mitchell's might be on the high side as far as price, but hopefully you get good service for the extra cost. I can't personally speak on this issue, since I haven't dealt with them. It would appear that their service is fair from what I've read here.

It's possible that posters that speak poorly of Mitchell's did not get the level of service they expected; if their conduct on this thread is any indication of how they act I'm not surprised.


gunguy98
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
306 Posts
Posted - 03/30/2006 : 11:16:37 PM
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M48's have absolutely nothing to do with K98's and they were absolutely positively not built on the same machinery as original WWII German made K98's
I don't know how many times we have to go thru this?


Pisgah
Gold Bullet Club



954 Posts
Posted - 03/30/2006 : 11:46:00 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by craig61a

...It was made with the same machinery that made the Model 98 for the Nazi's. A shorter action and different top handguard and no bolt disassembly hole are basically the only difference; as a matter of fact the M48 is probably one of the more robust 98K variants in that it was made with the best materials and workmanship, since there was no war on. Many of the later 98K's had problems due to the war and the slave laborers making the rifles ( sabotage such as improper heat treatment ). I'll agree that Mitchell's might be on the high side as far as price, but hopefully you get good service for the extra cost. I can't personally speak on this issue, since I haven't dealt with them. It would appear that their service is fair from what I've read here.

It's possible that posters that speak poorly of Mitchell's did not get the level of service they expected; if their conduct on this thread is any indication of how they act I'm not surprised.

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-Not made on the same machinery as German WWII Kar.98k's.

-Definitely not a version the 98k. Almost no parts interchange.

-Definitely IS an update of the Yugoslavian M24 rifle.

-Haven't read any posts EVER of German Kar.98k's manufactured by slave laborers or with "improper heat treatment" blowing up. Not saying that slaves didn't make some Kar.98k's, only that the improperly heat-treated Kar.98k/sabotaged rifle has basically been urban legend for years and was undoubtedly started by someone who regarded German Kar.98k's about the same as many now regard Turk Mausers.

-This post isn't about whether or not Yugoslavian M48's are worthwhile rifles. They are a fine variant of postwar Mauser. This post is about the way that Mitchell's Mausers has chosen to market them. They insist on labeling them "a genuine Mauser 98k" when this is untrue. In the past they have called them WWII era--which they are not, and have pointed out the fact that the Yugoslavian crest on these rifles has the year 1943. They do not explain why they pointed out this piece of trivia, but the implication is that the rifle originated then, which is far from the truth. I don't doubt that Mitchell's has fine service. The problem is their dishonest carnival barking type sales pitch is designed to take money from the least experienced collectors--especially those who would like to have one nice example of a Kar.98k for their collections and don't scratch too far past the surface to discover what they are actually buying. The fact is that most experienced Mauser collectors consider Mitchell's dishonest and parasitic. I nearly vomit every time I see one of their ads in American Rifleman. Their marketing practices are 180 degrees from what most gun owners in this country stand for.

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http://www.trunkmonkeyad.com


Hambone
I Have A Tina Tuner Style Haircut



2647 Posts
Posted - 03/31/2006 : 07:21:34 AM
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Pisgah, I agree with everything you say except the part about no Mausers ever blowing up. Below is a picture of Jimmy Earl, the official Yugo test firer for Mitchell's Mausers. This pic is of him at the Mitchell's employee Christmas party. Is his appearance the result of one too many catastrophic failures while test firing pimpshiny Mitchell's Mausers? I think it is, but you guys will have to reach your own conclusions.




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Edited by - Hambone on 03/31/2006 07:22:17 AM


Hambone
I Have A Tina Tuner Style Haircut



2647 Posts
Posted - 03/31/2006 : 07:24:38 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the advertising manager for Mitchell's at the last big Shot Show out in Vegas at the Mitchell's Mauser booth:



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n/a
deleted



246 Posts
Posted - 04/01/2006 : 03:45:40 AM
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All of this boils down to a few simple facts.
1) Mitchell's absolutly uses deceptive advertising. I looked at an ad 3 times and it still looked like they might be selling German K98's! terribly dishonest advertising.. anyone can see that.
2) Some guys are just looking for pretty. they want a rifle to pull from the package and look at, shoot and enjoy. I cant blame them, cleaning and refinishing an original or RC can be a job!
As for myself, I dont like mitchell's deceptive advertising. my feelings are that if you are attempting to hide the manufacturer, what else might be hidden?...
But for those of you that have and enjoy them, I will say thank you! I am mostly interested in seeing the continued interest in shooting.



jd46561
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1255 Posts
Posted - 04/01/2006 : 07:46:48 AM
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Brundlefly...If you want an accurate deer rifle under 150.00 get a Swiss K31.

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"Hold on to your lug nuts, its time for an overhaul!"







allanschisel
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
2283 Posts
Posted - 04/03/2006 : 04:27:20 AM
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Bilt, please stop cursing. It offends some people and is against the boards rules.
If you want a Mauser (M24/47) with a new looking bore and looking about unissued (do Michell Mausers look that good?) check out Allan's Armory. As a small dealer, I can't buy in quantity, so it's hard for me to have competitive pricing and still make a profit. Mine go for $175.
http://allans-armory.com/aaresult.asp?PageId=32
Allan Schisel

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Allan Schisel
Allan's Armory
http://allans-armory.com



micmacman
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
980 Posts
Posted - 04/03/2006 : 6:09:42 PM
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i have to disagree about the M48 not being a collectable rifle,or that its differant that they are hacking them up for sporters because they wernt A "War Rifle"

the same was said when all of the K98's being imported and bubba'd up for dear rifles, "there just junky ole rifles",now they are junky ole $600 dollar rifles

who's to say that 15 years from now we arnt going to look back today regretting that we were so blassay about the M48's being hacked up,are the M48's today what the K98's were 15-20 years ago? is a bad page of MilSurp history repeating itself before our eye's?

why do any of these ole rifles have to be cut,chopped,or desecrated for the sake of a hunting rifle,there are plenty of other avenues that would suit a hunter better for the same investment

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pull my finger
 
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