Joined
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1,624 Posts
This is a Copy paste from the old boards so we dont loose this valuable info..
Can you outline a method of removing that Varnish stuff from a RC 98 stock?
It looks like I'm going to have to buy a complete gun to get the stock I need for my 1940/147 reconstruction project, and I need to know how to go about getting the stocks' finish back into shape as best I can.
Thank you for your thoughts and counsel.
Charles S. Brown
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles S. Brown
kroh
Dennis Kroh-Owner Empire Arms Gunboards Sponsor
USA
1335 Posts
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 5:28:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Use DENATURED ALCOHOL (available at hardware stores) to dissolve and remove the shellac. NOTHING ELSE works, believe me. . .
Warning, DA is poisonous (and cannot be made non-poisonous) and can easily be absorbed through the skin, so be sure to wear gloves.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis Kroh, owner
use this link: http://64.82.96.51
mrfarb
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
1388 Posts
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 7:20:37 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I use antique furniture stripper in an aerosol can- it removes the shellac but doesn't affect the wood or finish underneath-- but that is just me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out my website- www.latewar.com
INFANTRY
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member
USA
790 Posts
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 8:10:08 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have seen the alcohol used, and it looked really nice. But I was told it takes lots of elbow grease. But that was with rubbing alcohol and a green scratch pad.
I've used steel wool to remove the russian shellac and that worked as well. Just needed to oil the stock up, same goes for sand paper. If you do it this way just remove ALL metal before doing so. Sorry, you should always remove the metal. makes that job easier
The last time I used aerosal paint remover. I sprayed it on heavy then washed it off in about 10 seconds. And to my suprize there was no wood damage. I think I got lucky with doing it that way. Sounds like mrfarb has a easy way of doing it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To the last man! 2-135 INFANTRY
kroh
Dennis Kroh-Owner Empire Arms Gunboards Sponsor
USA
1335 Posts
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 10:23:51 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Denatured Alcohol will *NOT* harm or affect the wood at all. . . there essentially *IS* no "finish underneath" as the Germans applied no finish whatsoever to the wood.
Of course, I've only been doing this for some 40 years, so I could be wrong. . .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis Kroh, owner
use this link: http://64.82.96.51
FlySig
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
132 Posts
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 10:31:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hate to disagree with Dennis, but...
I tried denatured alcohol on my RC stock and it didn't do much. It did take off the black paint on the takedown disk. Maybe I just needed more elbow grease.
I used Formby's Furniture Refinsher. It advertises that it takes off the shellac or varnish without stripping the wood, so it leaves the original underlying color and won't damage the wood the way a stripper or bleach will. It worked very well. I used 0000 steel wool and it just melted the shellac off. It took two applications to get it really clean, and the sling slot was a bit of a booger to get cleaned out. Wear green solvent resistant gloves and a respirator when using any stripping product or solvent. (Cheap disposable respirators are available at paint stores).
I refinished the stock with matte surface Formby's Tung Oil Finish. This is not a real tung oil! It is a varnish product, so if you want an authentic WWII German finish don't use this product. But for me it did a great job of putting on a protective layer that doesn't look like a varnish. It slightly darkens the color to what looks just like pictures of K98s in WWII. The finish is matte so it looks totally natural. I just wiped on a thin layer and let it dry overnight, buffed it with 0000 steel wool. A total of 4 easy applications and it looks perfect.
Now, no more red flakes all over my cheek and hands after shooting.
HondoBlue
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
122 Posts
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 10:51:55 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis is right --- no question. However, I have a good level of success with a product called "Citristrip" available in Wal-Mart, K-Mart, etc. The kicker is that you may have to use 2 or more coats in that it is fairly mild. Slow speed is what I prefer. Doesn't deface waf's but takes a lot of time to work your wood to the point of restoration (as opposed to'Bubba-i-sation')
Best of luck and be sure to post some photos as your project goes along.
Dave
INFANTRY
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member
USA
790 Posts
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 11:09:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HondoBlue, I agree, the best looking stocks are the ones that time was spent on them. So if your still out there csb, Rememeber slow and steady, and she will come out looking nice.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To the last man! 2-135 INFANTRY
Youngblood
Platinum Bullet Club
USA
5962 Posts
Posted - 06/07/2005 : 09:52:58 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have used both CitriStrip & DA on shellaced pieces. Both work well but there is no second step (neutralizing with mineral spirits) involved with the DA ... and, overall, I find the DA approach to be less messy and hassle-intensive.
I recently (last week) received an M14 USGI birch stock from Fred's that was shellaced (1st time I have run into shellac on a USGI piece ... Go Figure).
I removed the shellac in two baths (with a soft sponge & a toothbrush) of DA, 18 hours apart. Quite frankly, the 2nd wasn't really necessary, but I wanted to make sure that I removed as much of the shellac resin as possible ... this is a beooooootiful piece of birch, y'know?
I stained it with a home blend of 3 spirit stains and just finished its 2nd coat of Tung Oil (not Finish!) yesterday ... it will not need a 3rd.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you are at the range or shooting
ALWAYS WEAR SAFETY GLASSES!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
** CETME and FR-8 Forum Expat **
Registered on Nov 23, 2001 12:07 pm
Total Classic Gunboards Posts: 1191
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Youngblood
Platinum Bullet Club
USA
5962 Posts
Posted - 06/07/2005 : 10:16:55 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The top is the birch stock from which I removed the shellac ... the bottom is a new black walnut stock with no stain ... both received 2 coats of Tung.
csb
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
145 Posts
Posted - 06/07/2005 : 10:17:33 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks a-lot! I appreciate all your imput!
Charles S. Brown
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles S. Brown
bozymoto
Gunboards Member
USA
51 Posts
Posted - 06/07/2005 : 1:24:59 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Deleted-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by - bozymoto on 06/22/2005 12:07:05 PM
solman
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
1615 Posts
Posted - 06/07/2005 : 2:27:17 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
csb,Im old enough to remeber bring backs,looked 'rough cut'not like a us military stock. i suppose it depends on the maker.
they just looked lathed, no sanding at all. and for finish? maybe the soldier just put whatever he had on hand? so you may have like 30w oil rubbed in. and the bring back papers i seen, just looked like some clerk typed it out.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trompe la mort
dragonfly
Gunboards Premium Member
136 Posts
Posted - 06/07/2005 : 5:50:32 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One last method to offer - I scrape with a razor blade held perpendicularly to the wood. It does not take that long.
EricOKC
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
2314 Posts
Posted - 06/07/2005 : 7:42:24 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CSB,
Funny you should mention this, as I just stripped the shellac from my RC this afternoon.
Used denatured alcohol to remove the shellac, and a stiff bristled brush.
Then used mineral spirits to remove "crap."
Then used really hot water, laundry detergent, Oxyclean, stiff bristled brush, and scrubbed until the water rinsed clean.
Thoroughly dried, 0000 steel wool to smooth it, and now have one of two or three coats of tung finish.
I'll post pix in a day or so.
By the way, only the bayo lug and the mag follower had Russian black paint that came off with the acetone, rest appears to be blued, and is not the black paint as is on my rearsenaled 91/30.
Also, please note that this is shellac, and not varnish, as they are two different things.
Denatured alcohol won't affect varnish.
Eric
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by - EricOKC on 06/07/2005 7:43:29 PM
doctorxring
Gunboards Super Premium Member
431 Posts
Posted - 06/07/2005 : 8:54:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Would like to see your results Eric.
I'm working on one too.
dxr
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Happiness is a tight group
Dr. Johnny Fever
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
2065 Posts
Posted - 06/08/2005 : 7:15:31 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just yesterday received a BEAUTIFUL Russian-capture 98k from Empire, a 1944 dot. The notes on the webpage said that the rifle has "lovely wood and metal" but what this really means is "rifle has GORGEOUS wood and metal."
I am now kicking the Hell out of myself for not having grabbed more rifles with this notation back when they were still available.
Anyway...
...the rifle has a slight red tint to it which I would like to change to something more akin to what I see in World War II photographs, BUT...
...I have NO woodworking experience at all and this rifle being as super-cherry as it is, I am afraid to even attempt anything.
What to do? Anyone here is similar straits?
doctorxring
Gunboards Super Premium Member
431 Posts
Posted - 06/08/2005 : 9:38:20 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Johnny -
Glad to hear your found a rifle that you really like.
Post some pics of your rifle.
Taking off the red is not hard at all. If you decide
you want to PM one of us and we will tell you how to
do it.
I took the shellac off of mine the other day and it
is really looking good and German again.
dxr
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Happiness is a tight group
HondoBlue
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
122 Posts
Posted - 06/22/2005 : 10:01:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yup ---- Can't disagree with any of the above but with the following caveat -> work slow. Harsh strippers will erode the wood and will over-dry. Don't leave your stripped wood for too long without some sealer. (Tung or BLO). Plan ahead for the look you want and don't get impatient. (Just spent 3 hours tonight scowling at some wood grain that wouldn't accept a uniform coat of Tung).
Dave
EricOKC
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
2314 Posts
Posted - 06/22/2005 : 10:42:38 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by HondoBlue
Yup ---- Can't disagree with any of the above but with the following caveat -> work slow. Harsh strippers will erode the wood and will over-dry. Don't leave your stripped wood for too long without some sealer. (Tung or BLO). Plan ahead for the look you want and don't get impatient. (Just spent 3 hours tonight scowling at some wood grain that wouldn't accept a uniform coat of Tung).
Dave
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hondo,
Is it only one coat so far?
If so, then that's normal.
Two coats are a minimum on these after stripping the stocks.
Take care!
Eric
Can you outline a method of removing that Varnish stuff from a RC 98 stock?
It looks like I'm going to have to buy a complete gun to get the stock I need for my 1940/147 reconstruction project, and I need to know how to go about getting the stocks' finish back into shape as best I can.
Thank you for your thoughts and counsel.
Charles S. Brown
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles S. Brown
kroh
Dennis Kroh-Owner Empire Arms Gunboards Sponsor
USA
1335 Posts
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 5:28:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Use DENATURED ALCOHOL (available at hardware stores) to dissolve and remove the shellac. NOTHING ELSE works, believe me. . .
Warning, DA is poisonous (and cannot be made non-poisonous) and can easily be absorbed through the skin, so be sure to wear gloves.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis Kroh, owner
use this link: http://64.82.96.51
mrfarb
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
1388 Posts
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 7:20:37 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I use antique furniture stripper in an aerosol can- it removes the shellac but doesn't affect the wood or finish underneath-- but that is just me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out my website- www.latewar.com
INFANTRY
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member
USA
790 Posts
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 8:10:08 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have seen the alcohol used, and it looked really nice. But I was told it takes lots of elbow grease. But that was with rubbing alcohol and a green scratch pad.
I've used steel wool to remove the russian shellac and that worked as well. Just needed to oil the stock up, same goes for sand paper. If you do it this way just remove ALL metal before doing so. Sorry, you should always remove the metal. makes that job easier
The last time I used aerosal paint remover. I sprayed it on heavy then washed it off in about 10 seconds. And to my suprize there was no wood damage. I think I got lucky with doing it that way. Sounds like mrfarb has a easy way of doing it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To the last man! 2-135 INFANTRY
kroh
Dennis Kroh-Owner Empire Arms Gunboards Sponsor
USA
1335 Posts
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 10:23:51 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Denatured Alcohol will *NOT* harm or affect the wood at all. . . there essentially *IS* no "finish underneath" as the Germans applied no finish whatsoever to the wood.
Of course, I've only been doing this for some 40 years, so I could be wrong. . .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis Kroh, owner
use this link: http://64.82.96.51
FlySig
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
132 Posts
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 10:31:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hate to disagree with Dennis, but...
I tried denatured alcohol on my RC stock and it didn't do much. It did take off the black paint on the takedown disk. Maybe I just needed more elbow grease.
I used Formby's Furniture Refinsher. It advertises that it takes off the shellac or varnish without stripping the wood, so it leaves the original underlying color and won't damage the wood the way a stripper or bleach will. It worked very well. I used 0000 steel wool and it just melted the shellac off. It took two applications to get it really clean, and the sling slot was a bit of a booger to get cleaned out. Wear green solvent resistant gloves and a respirator when using any stripping product or solvent. (Cheap disposable respirators are available at paint stores).
I refinished the stock with matte surface Formby's Tung Oil Finish. This is not a real tung oil! It is a varnish product, so if you want an authentic WWII German finish don't use this product. But for me it did a great job of putting on a protective layer that doesn't look like a varnish. It slightly darkens the color to what looks just like pictures of K98s in WWII. The finish is matte so it looks totally natural. I just wiped on a thin layer and let it dry overnight, buffed it with 0000 steel wool. A total of 4 easy applications and it looks perfect.
Now, no more red flakes all over my cheek and hands after shooting.
HondoBlue
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
122 Posts
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 10:51:55 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis is right --- no question. However, I have a good level of success with a product called "Citristrip" available in Wal-Mart, K-Mart, etc. The kicker is that you may have to use 2 or more coats in that it is fairly mild. Slow speed is what I prefer. Doesn't deface waf's but takes a lot of time to work your wood to the point of restoration (as opposed to'Bubba-i-sation')
Best of luck and be sure to post some photos as your project goes along.
Dave
INFANTRY
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member
USA
790 Posts
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 11:09:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HondoBlue, I agree, the best looking stocks are the ones that time was spent on them. So if your still out there csb, Rememeber slow and steady, and she will come out looking nice.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To the last man! 2-135 INFANTRY
Youngblood
Platinum Bullet Club
USA
5962 Posts
Posted - 06/07/2005 : 09:52:58 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have used both CitriStrip & DA on shellaced pieces. Both work well but there is no second step (neutralizing with mineral spirits) involved with the DA ... and, overall, I find the DA approach to be less messy and hassle-intensive.
I recently (last week) received an M14 USGI birch stock from Fred's that was shellaced (1st time I have run into shellac on a USGI piece ... Go Figure).
I removed the shellac in two baths (with a soft sponge & a toothbrush) of DA, 18 hours apart. Quite frankly, the 2nd wasn't really necessary, but I wanted to make sure that I removed as much of the shellac resin as possible ... this is a beooooootiful piece of birch, y'know?
I stained it with a home blend of 3 spirit stains and just finished its 2nd coat of Tung Oil (not Finish!) yesterday ... it will not need a 3rd.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you are at the range or shooting
ALWAYS WEAR SAFETY GLASSES!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
** CETME and FR-8 Forum Expat **
Registered on Nov 23, 2001 12:07 pm
Total Classic Gunboards Posts: 1191
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Youngblood
Platinum Bullet Club
USA
5962 Posts
Posted - 06/07/2005 : 10:16:55 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The top is the birch stock from which I removed the shellac ... the bottom is a new black walnut stock with no stain ... both received 2 coats of Tung.
csb
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
145 Posts
Posted - 06/07/2005 : 10:17:33 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks a-lot! I appreciate all your imput!
Charles S. Brown
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles S. Brown
bozymoto
Gunboards Member
USA
51 Posts
Posted - 06/07/2005 : 1:24:59 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Deleted-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by - bozymoto on 06/22/2005 12:07:05 PM
solman
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
1615 Posts
Posted - 06/07/2005 : 2:27:17 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
csb,Im old enough to remeber bring backs,looked 'rough cut'not like a us military stock. i suppose it depends on the maker.
they just looked lathed, no sanding at all. and for finish? maybe the soldier just put whatever he had on hand? so you may have like 30w oil rubbed in. and the bring back papers i seen, just looked like some clerk typed it out.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trompe la mort
dragonfly
Gunboards Premium Member
136 Posts
Posted - 06/07/2005 : 5:50:32 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One last method to offer - I scrape with a razor blade held perpendicularly to the wood. It does not take that long.
EricOKC
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
2314 Posts
Posted - 06/07/2005 : 7:42:24 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CSB,
Funny you should mention this, as I just stripped the shellac from my RC this afternoon.
Used denatured alcohol to remove the shellac, and a stiff bristled brush.
Then used mineral spirits to remove "crap."
Then used really hot water, laundry detergent, Oxyclean, stiff bristled brush, and scrubbed until the water rinsed clean.
Thoroughly dried, 0000 steel wool to smooth it, and now have one of two or three coats of tung finish.
I'll post pix in a day or so.
By the way, only the bayo lug and the mag follower had Russian black paint that came off with the acetone, rest appears to be blued, and is not the black paint as is on my rearsenaled 91/30.
Also, please note that this is shellac, and not varnish, as they are two different things.
Denatured alcohol won't affect varnish.
Eric
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by - EricOKC on 06/07/2005 7:43:29 PM
doctorxring
Gunboards Super Premium Member
431 Posts
Posted - 06/07/2005 : 8:54:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Would like to see your results Eric.
I'm working on one too.
dxr
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Happiness is a tight group
Dr. Johnny Fever
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
2065 Posts
Posted - 06/08/2005 : 7:15:31 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just yesterday received a BEAUTIFUL Russian-capture 98k from Empire, a 1944 dot. The notes on the webpage said that the rifle has "lovely wood and metal" but what this really means is "rifle has GORGEOUS wood and metal."
I am now kicking the Hell out of myself for not having grabbed more rifles with this notation back when they were still available.
Anyway...
...the rifle has a slight red tint to it which I would like to change to something more akin to what I see in World War II photographs, BUT...
...I have NO woodworking experience at all and this rifle being as super-cherry as it is, I am afraid to even attempt anything.
What to do? Anyone here is similar straits?
doctorxring
Gunboards Super Premium Member
431 Posts
Posted - 06/08/2005 : 9:38:20 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Johnny -
Glad to hear your found a rifle that you really like.
Post some pics of your rifle.
Taking off the red is not hard at all. If you decide
you want to PM one of us and we will tell you how to
do it.
I took the shellac off of mine the other day and it
is really looking good and German again.
dxr
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Happiness is a tight group
HondoBlue
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
122 Posts
Posted - 06/22/2005 : 10:01:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yup ---- Can't disagree with any of the above but with the following caveat -> work slow. Harsh strippers will erode the wood and will over-dry. Don't leave your stripped wood for too long without some sealer. (Tung or BLO). Plan ahead for the look you want and don't get impatient. (Just spent 3 hours tonight scowling at some wood grain that wouldn't accept a uniform coat of Tung).
Dave
EricOKC
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
2314 Posts
Posted - 06/22/2005 : 10:42:38 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by HondoBlue
Yup ---- Can't disagree with any of the above but with the following caveat -> work slow. Harsh strippers will erode the wood and will over-dry. Don't leave your stripped wood for too long without some sealer. (Tung or BLO). Plan ahead for the look you want and don't get impatient. (Just spent 3 hours tonight scowling at some wood grain that wouldn't accept a uniform coat of Tung).
Dave
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hondo,
Is it only one coat so far?
If so, then that's normal.
Two coats are a minimum on these after stripping the stocks.
Take care!
Eric
