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runner
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
509 Posts
Posted - 11/29/2003 : 12:33:31 PM
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The recent strings on this forum concerning "fake" rifles along with a rare long weekend that has allowed me time to play with my collection, has got me to thinking about this whole issue. I bought my first K98k , a bnz 41, in 1977 for the grand sum of $112. It is matching to the screws. I was quickly hooked and started buying K98s whenever opportunity and finances would allow. Back then there was no internet and no BOTW or Mausers of the World. The only good book I could find was Olsen's Mauser Bolt rifles, you learned from other collectors and personal examination, and you made mistakes. In sorting and cleaning my rifles this weekend, I have discovered two "fakes" that I had listed in my records as "all matching". Both are rifles that I purchased in the Mid-80's. and both are victims of renumbered bolts. One I should have caught even then as it had the correct number on the bolt, but was missing the letter suffix, the other was a little less obvious, the "doctor" had used another bolt that had the correct suffix and waffenampt, but had ground out the number and restamped. Pretty clear to me now because it is second nature to examine not only the number and suffix, but also the style of font and look of a "fresh" stamping. Now I very seldom sell a rifle, but, if someone had wanted to trade me out of one of these 15 years ago, I would have represented it as a matching rifle, and I would have been wrong, but out of ignorance, not out of a misguided profit motive. I hope that person would not hold that against me now. As our body of knowledge of what is correct grows, I may in years to come, find that a rifle I feel confident is correct today, has actually been 'enhanced" sometime in the past. My point is not everyone selling an incorrect rifle is a crook, many are, and if they do it with prior knowledge they certainly deserve this title. This forum is a terrific place to post items for examination and discussion, the key is, using it as a learning tool and not getting defensive. 26 years after I started I am still learning every day.

Franz 1796
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1323 Posts
Posted - 11/30/2003 : 12:35:58 PM
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Good post and point well made. Many have stated that fakes have been around for a long time, and your post adds credibility to that notion. Prices now for all matching rifles are higher than ever, and the new influx of RC K98's will generate new interest and new collectors into the arena. The activity level regarding fakes is bound to increase due to the abundance of new raw materials (RC K98's) and new collectors.


coasthwy1
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
176 Posts
Posted - 11/30/2003 : 9:54:46 PM
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"It is not about money...It's about honesty, and integrity." "It is not about getting personally harmed, it is about saving others."
You hear that alot, but what are the answers?
Let's start a campaign of purchasing all the fakes we see, and then destroying them. Would that not be the absolute answer to a problem that is not about money, but rather the protection of others?
OK, dumb idea.
Maybe we can help others, and avoid money issues by saying that everything is real? Think about it. We vow to never tell a single soul that what they have is a fake. We allow everyone to continue to believe that, if they can spot one fake, they can spot them all. They are happy, and they never have to feel cheated out their money?
OK, dumb idea.
I guess honesty and integrity means the best we can do is bitch, point out every fake we can spot, and tell people their stuff is fake without hesitation. Buyers, sellers, who cares...nail them all.
Any problems with that idea?



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Edited by - coasthwy1 on 11/30/2003 10:03:55 PM


Hambone
I Have A Tina Tuner Style Haircut



2647 Posts
Posted - 11/30/2003 : 10:08:26 PM
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The answer is to be honest.

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runner
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
509 Posts
Posted - 11/30/2003 : 10:25:35 PM
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I don't think anyone would have a problem with people acting with integrity and treating everyone in an honest fashion. The point I tried to make in my post above was the importance of keeping an open mind and being receptive to feedback. I currently have developed a strong interest in Standard Modells. A Mauser variation that has little current documentation, and much of what has been printed is incorrect and/or misleading. I have often posted questions and pics on this forum and got great feedback from collectors who are more knowledgable in those areas than I. Even in areas where we "know" something to be true, we must as collectors keep an open mind. Hambones current research with the RC Portugese k98s is an excellent example, if he is able to get a large enough sample, his work may change the "truth" about what we know of the history of that variation. Thanks to Tuco, this forum gives collectors a great opportunity to grow the body of knowledge existing within the hobby.


coasthwy1
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
176 Posts
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 11:15:50 PM
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The point I was trying to make it that fakes are a real problem but, it is ones perception that truly defines them. (Sounds like the prolog for an episode of Twilight zone)
Plain English: Is a fake real to the person who believes it to be real? Yes, as real as it can get. Who sets in motion the change in that perception? Not Bubba. More often, it is the person who sees himself as the champion of truth who causes the harm. A sad fact indeed. In the name of honesty we bring about the very harm we sought to avoid.
Meanwhile, Bubba plies his trade, unstoppable. And when he is done, many others will take his place. We can deal with it on the surface - Take it a day at a time - Try to stay one step ahead. What we cannot do, with absolute certainty, is say that we will never be fooled. Anyone can be fooled, and therein lay the dilemma. Advancing the body of knowledge serves two masters. Those who fake, and those who do not. It is a push.
What is not a push is who suffers. Liberals are not alone in feeling the pain of another. I read pain and anger in these posts all the time, and it kills me! I can easily avoid it for myself. I could give a mouses behind about a Skull stamp on a K98. I am safe!
On the other hand, I cannot help everyone else avoid the pain of reality. That is why I try to do it in other ways. I try to add more mumbo jumbo than just saying what is, and what ain't. That is why I try to find a way around a "thing" that others bitch about. Bitching, to me, is just another form of pain. Bubba wins.
And what can I add, if anything? Fakes are real, and they are coming to get you! (Prolog to Body Snatchers) General discussions are a good defense, but totally ineffective as an offense. Also, I never helped anyone by pointing out that what they owned is a fake. Better they find that out themselves. And when they do, it still hurts them, but the self-respect that came from finding the truth, on their own, was my gift.
There was an old ecclesiastical law wherein one could be held liable for telling a truth that caused harm. Harm can be caused by a change in ones perception regarding a person, place, or thing. Regarding fakes, those courts would hold; There is no justifiable reason to point out someone's fake, once the damage is done. Do so, and YOU, not Bubba, have caused the harm. Is there integrity in brutal honesty? Think about it.


kriggevaer
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1709 Posts
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 11:36:07 PM
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Life is rough, no one gets out of here alive or unsullied - tell the truth, stop the madness.

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kriggevær

"Roland was a warrior from the Land of the Midnight Sun..."



Sooner
Gunboards Member



USA
61 Posts
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 11:45:56 PM
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I can only speak for myself here, but yes, if someone knows I've bought a fake, I want them to tell me. Best and quickest way I know of to learn. It might keep me from doing it again. Sometimes truth hurts, but it's the only way I know to play it.


fireman
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



1369 Posts
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 11:53:45 PM
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Coasthwy1 I must respectfully diagree. A fake is a fake and just because I want it to be real does not make it so. No in between, just like pregnant or dead. It is either a real SS rifle or a fake. Either original all matching or made to match later, ie. fake. The fakery is done for profit, that makes it fraud and criminal. If I bought a fake and thought it was real I darn sure would want to be told! Then I could track down the seller and get my money back.

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Edited by - fireman on 12/04/2003 07:13:34 AM


Hambone
I Have A Tina Tuner Style Haircut



2647 Posts
Posted - 12/04/2003 : 06:34:47 AM
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Coasthwy, I guess your argument could be made in favor of counterfeit money or crime or drug dealing or any other loathesome behaviour. Little Johnny likes to shoot smack, deal drugs, and stick up liquor stores. But why publicize it if he really hasn't shot anyone? And if he is arrested, someone else will simply take his place. I mean, isn't it worse to publicize it and call attention to society's woes when no one would know? Extreme example, yes, but fakery, if left unchecked, will devalue a hobby as quickly as counterfeit money will tank a monetary system or economy. When a man buys a high dollar fake, and you tell him, and tell him how to identify fakes this is what happens: The man will force the dealer to refund money, or the man files a criminal complaint; the man then knows better and shares the knowledge. The conman dealer loses business or is put out of business. Moral? One less conman, one more educated consumer and beneficial member of the hobby. Ethics, morality, and crime are not subjective.

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graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1294 Posts
Posted - 12/04/2003 : 5:02:49 PM
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I can see where "brutal Honesty" might not help... but you can't be serious about letting a fraud ride until the collector finds out on his own?

I do think pissing on someone’s rifle (or his opinion of it anyway...) can make things worse for everyone on the boards & cause more harm than it solves, but there is no point to these boards if we are all going to have a big group hug over every rifle regardless of our individual opinions on its legitimacy.

No one learns that way...

MauserBill has pissed all over my opinions on several rifles, slings, etc... but every time I have "doubts or questions" he is the first collector I email!



quote:
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Originally posted by coasthwy1

The point I was trying to make it that fakes are a real problem but, it is ones perception that truly defines them. (Sounds like the prolog for an episode of Twilight zone)
Plain English: Is a fake real to the person who believes it to be real? Yes, as real as it can get. Who sets in motion the change in that perception? Not Bubba. More often, it is the person who sees himself as the champion of truth who causes the harm. A sad fact indeed. In the name of honesty we bring about the very harm we sought to avoid.
Meanwhile, Bubba plies his trade, unstoppable. And when he is done, many others will take his place. We can deal with it on the surface - Take it a day at a time - Try to stay one step ahead. What we cannot do, with absolute certainty, is say that we will never be fooled. Anyone can be fooled, and therein lay the dilemma. Advancing the body of knowledge serves two masters. Those who fake, and those who do not. It is a push.
What is not a push is who suffers. Liberals are not alone in feeling the pain of another. I read pain and anger in these posts all the time, and it kills me! I can easily avoid it for myself. I could give a mouses behind about a Skull stamp on a K98. I am safe!
On the other hand, I cannot help everyone else avoid the pain of reality. That is why I try to do it in other ways. I try to add more mumbo jumbo than just saying what is, and what ain't. That is why I try to find a way around a "thing" that others bitch about. Bitching, to me, is just another form of pain. Bubba wins.
And what can I add, if anything? Fakes are real, and they are coming to get you! (Prolog to Body Snatchers) General discussions are a good defense, but totally ineffective as an offense. Also, I never helped anyone by pointing out that what they owned is a fake. Better they find that out themselves. And when they do, it still hurts them, but the self-respect that came from finding the truth, on their own, was my gift.
There was an old ecclesiastical law wherein one could be held liable for telling a truth that caused harm. Harm can be caused by a change in ones perception regarding a person, place, or thing. Regarding fakes, those courts would hold; There is no justifiable reason to point out someone's fake, once the damage is done. Do so, and YOU, not Bubba, have caused the harm. Is there integrity in brutal honesty? Think about it.

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Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
http://militaryriflejournal.com/

http://gewehr98.com/



bda
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
382 Posts
Posted - 12/05/2003 : 11:29:45 AM
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I'm glad I only buy the cheaper RC's, Yugo's and mismatched bolt K98's. I know all of mine are not in original configuration and I don't have to worry about whether I got ripped off or not. :) When it comes to K98's I'll take quantity over quality.

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Bryan


J.Stein
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



2970 Posts
Posted - 12/05/2003 : 6:21:48 PM
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There are surely collectors and dealers out there that know what they are doing is illegal and unethical like "TD's" sniper rig of earlier this year. These are the people that make a cottage industry out of making their creations. I believe though that each of us knows more table holders at gunshows that view fraud not as "fraud" but as "part of the game" without any regrets about selling known (poor quality) fakes. These are the same guys that make up vet bring back stories on import marked weaponry and Nazi histories for Yugo M48's.


peterkuck
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
305 Posts
Posted - 12/05/2003 : 9:47:24 PM
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Don't be so quick to say [the] "One I should have caught even then as it had the correct number on the bolt, but was missing the letter suffix" is a fake. It could actually be a German wartime rebuild. I know of two wartime rebuilds with a bolt that is numbered to the gun without the

Download Attachment:
78.96 KBsuffix. A case in point is a S/27 1937 rifle, with a replacement bolt numbered to the gun with no suffix, a replacement barell (marked S/243), a hooded front sight, a Gustloff front band (waf 1),a sauer rear band (waf 37), and a Mauser borsigwald rear sight base (double waf 26). The other had the classic German Butt stock repair. Is the S/27 worth the same as a perfect condition rifle? I suspect not but then I collect rifles that interest me.

regards
peter



Mike
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
617 Posts
Posted - 12/06/2003 : 12:01:22 AM
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Back in the 60's or even before when K98's were $20-$30 matching numbered guns were always prized-mismatches were just that-there were so many matched guns then that collectors would not touch any "mismatch" Key word is "mismatch"-not "mostly matching" or "some replaced parts" etc.

You can be sure that some enterprising souls were working on fixing those mismatched guns.

Back then there were really good repro Nazi daggers that are in collections as "originals" today.

Nothing like the spirit of free enterprise....

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Mike


Hambone
I Have A Tina Tuner Style Haircut



2647 Posts
Posted - 12/06/2003 : 09:47:00 AM
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Peter, also note dou did not provide a letter suffix on their bolts either. Good info. you provide. However, I think you and I can agree that an ORIGINAL wartime rework (not Bob with the endcap's "rework") is a scarce thing to find. I think that in going through the mental gymnastics, the decision tree if you will, of fake detection has a "Is the bolt missing the letter suffix" branch, which would then go to "If no suffix, is it a dou or rework?". If it isn't one of those, it is likely fake. Problem is, everything suspect is described as a "wartime rework" by the conartist. Correctly ID'ing an original rework requires a knowledge level over and above owning a copy of BOTW. It takes someone to walk you through it, explain it, disassemble it, and see other original examples.



quote:
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Originally posted by peterkuck

Don't be so quick to say [the] "One I should have caught even then as it had the correct number on the bolt, but was missing the letter suffix" is a fake. It could actually be a German wartime rebuild.
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Anthony
Gunboards Super Premium Member



330 Posts
Posted - 12/06/2003 : 11:19:25 AM
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There is also the problem of well intentioned collectors that label a gun fake or reworked and they happen to be wrong.

Who does that help? I will respond to my own question. Not the collector who acquired the gun or the fellow that parted with the gun.

We talk about exposing fakers. How about exposing know it all types that have their own agendas!

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Anthony Fortino


The Great Billdildoe
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1910 Posts
Posted - 12/06/2003 : 11:46:06 AM
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I have a 147/1940 , or did at one time and I recall someone labeled it FAKE CODE/DATE. Hmmm makes me wonder.


graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1294 Posts
Posted - 12/06/2003 : 11:57:49 AM
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You mention "hidden agendas" often, you sometime mention collectors that hold these agendas, but you not once to my knowledge have shown any proof of such agendas?

You have mentioned several of us ridiculing ss marked rifles, rc's, & the occasional fraudulent 98k rarity yet you neglect the fact that neither I nor MauserBill collect the 98k actively any longer (I have a few remaining in my collection but I don't have any overwhelming desire to expand on them- and have not bought a 98k in the better part of 5 years)
Hambone similar I believe- an active collector but hasn't bought one in a while?
Scott B I don’t know well enough to follow his buying habits but it would be a safe assumption that he isn’t interested in rc’s- ss marked or otherwise…

Where have any of the collectors that you hold in such high contempt ever ragged on a rifle only to buy the rifle later?

Just one example will suffice... from someone always demanding “proof” of an opinion, this should be small potatoes.



quote:
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Originally posted by Anthony

There is also the problem of well intentioned collectors that label a gun fake or reworked and they happen to be wrong.

Who does that help? I will respond to my own question. Not the collector who acquired the gun or the fellow that parted with the gun.

We talk about exposing fakers. How about exposing know it all types that have their own agendas!

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
http://militaryriflejournal.com/

http://gewehr98.com/



graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1294 Posts
Posted - 12/06/2003 : 12:03:31 PM
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Further, when someone is inquiring upon a rifle he is asking for opinions... if he ONLY wants facts, he will likely not get a great many replies.

No poster is required to accept mine or any other collectors opinion... every collector must make up their mind on which collectors view is "more correct", and then form their own.

This is what I do, I don't agree with everything Bill says about my rifles/accessories when I ask for his opinion... but it helps me form my own opinion.





quote:
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Originally posted by Anthony

There is also the problem of well intentioned collectors that label a gun fake or reworked and they happen to be wrong.

Who does that help? I will respond to my own question. Not the collector who acquired the gun or the fellow that parted with the gun.

We talk about exposing fakers. How about exposing know it all types that have their own agendas!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
http://militaryriflejournal.com/

http://gewehr98.com/



coasthwy1
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
176 Posts
Posted - 12/06/2003 : 9:22:46 PM
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Truth be known, I care too much. But I have also learned that, simply because someone feels it is immoral to fake something, such is not an answer to the problem. Bubba has a much better bottom line. He does not give a damn what you think. And as for what you say, he uses that information for quality improvement. And all of this goes on in a hobby where there is plenty of stuff to buy, without trying to score a skull on a k98. But I understand why others, just gotta have it!
Bubba understands that need too, and he is supplying that demand. There is a demand what what he is selling even though what he is seliing is a nonessential commodity. Problem is, collectors can't get it through their heads, it is a nonessential commodity! So, if we don't really need it then, what is the problem here? Answer: Bubba has no corner on the market for greed. First, there were collectors.
But I don't want to leave it to Bubba to define the bottom line. That is why I try to get people unwrapped from a problem that will never go away. Unwrapped by seeing things from a different perspective. Not through wishful thinking, but rather correct thinking. And on that note, others have said it much better than me. To know what can be changed, what cannot, and the wisdom to know the difference. So, how do you deal with a problem that cannot be solved, unless you solve it for yourself?
I deny greedy Bubba the power he needs to implement his plan. That power is my own level of greed, sweetened with naiveté. In short, one never gets burned without first being an active participant. So, knowing what I know, how little I really know, or having seen how good a fake stamp can look - Unless Hitler himself said he whacked a skull stamp on a k98, I would assume it to have NO VALUE. To assume otherwise, personal greed will have overridden my common sense, and I become ripe for picking.
Or, I can place my greed, and my trust, in the hands of another. Let some dealer determine my fate? Or, I can assume that my greed has made me much smarter than greedy Bubba, and then roll the dice? My point being, are we saying here that is it better to be a hapless victim, beset upon by bad men? That is the answer? Personally, I would rather think it was my fault. Admitting what motivates us to make mistakes is the key to wisdom. Having made a mistake in judgment is a problem that can be effectively dealt with. Not repeating the same mistake is an absolute bottom line. Bubba cannot find a way around that kind of thinking.

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Edited by - coasthwy1 on 12/06/2003 9:29:25 PM


Hambone
I Have A Tina Tuner Style Haircut



2647 Posts
Posted - 12/06/2003 : 11:54:47 PM
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Coasthwy, you seem to be proferring some abstract subjective based ethical standard. Subjective standards, ethics, and morality, or the total absence thereof, cannot be the basis of a civilized society. I want to sit with you, Bubba, and his customer-victims at a standard issue gunshow while you try to explain your theory. You mean well and I mean no disrespect, but IMHO your theories on ethics and the maintenance of the integrity of ANY moneyed hobby are abstract, unrealistic, complex, unworkable, and difficult to comprehend.

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Edited by - Hambone on 12/07/2003 01:51:05 AM


peterkuck
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
305 Posts
Posted - 12/07/2003 : 11:55:21 AM
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This whole discussion along with others of this nature just proves that we need more gun shows with "DISPLAYS". Were nothing is for sale in the display and other serious collectors can pick up the rifle and examine it. This way there is no fear and no favor, and we all get to learn.

I have always appreciated input from John Wall, Graf, MMAN, and any other individual who cares to add his 2 cents about my stuff, thats how along with this forum I learn and grow

regards
peter



Hambone
I Have A Tina Tuner Style Haircut



2647 Posts
Posted - 12/07/2003 : 1:07:52 PM
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At one time I set up displays. Regrettably, the mind numbing march of the uncouth imbeciles cured me of this: "Please sir, the signs all over the display say "DISPLAY ONLY / PLEASE DO NOT TOUCH"; "Sir, please you and your kids come from behind the rope barricade around the display and put those down"; "Please sir, your child is attempting to shove my $500 German helmet onto his head, this will damage the liner"; "How much for the old Mauser rifle? I'm sorry it is not for sale. Yes sir, I know this is a gunshow and most people are selling things, but this is a display and for viewing only. Yes sir, I know you paid to come in here to buy guns, not go to a museum." (Note correct response: "Sir, please let me demonstrate on you how the Germans used entrenching tools to crush skulls as you are too stupid and rude to be breathing."); "Sir, please put the hand grenade back on the table, it is not for sale and my signs request that you not touch it." (Note: I need to tape this one as I used to have to say it about 50 times a show); "No sir, I assure you it hasn't been reblued, it is just in nice condition."; "Yes sir, they do make nice deer rifles, but that was back in the 60's"; "Sir, please don't rack the bolt over and over while you dry fire the rifle"; "Sir, please don't repeatedly slam the buttplate of my rifle against the concrete floor while you attempt to show your idiot friend how you remember 30% of the manual of arms you learned in high school JROTC". The ratio of loud ill mannered dumba$$es to intelligent, genteel humanity was in excess of 100 to 1. Remarkably, many kids are better than their fathers with respect to do not touch sign recognition. Further, I am amazed at the lengths people will go to in circumventing barriers, barricades, etc. to jack with things that have a big "DISPLAY ONLY, PLEASE DO NOT TOUCH" sign on them. I find the internet to be much better, thank you.

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Edited by - Hambone on 12/07/2003 3:15:39 PM


runner
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
509 Posts
Posted - 12/07/2003 : 2:51:20 PM
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Years ago, when I lived in Ky. I was a member of the Kentuckiana Arms collectors association. The club sponsored four shows a year. We sold tables to outside dealers, but members who wanted to set up displays got preference and 1/2 price tables. We would anchor all four corners of the show with display tables. I usually set up a display of K98s showing one example of each year of production. 34-45. plus bayonets and other accessories. It was a bit of a pain, and I had all the same problems that Hambone describes. But I wish I could find a club oriented show here in Virginia to the same. The advantages were:
Networking with other collectors.
Talking with Vets, from both sides that were fimiliar with the weapons.
Great way to get new items for the collection. On more than one occasion, A WWll vet would begin a conversation with "I got one that looks like that at home" maybe next show I will bring it by to show you. Often they would offer to sell them to you if they had no one in the family to pass it on to. They seemed to like the fact that it was going to a collector, instead of a for profit dealer.
There is a local VFW Post that will rent their Hall for a reasonable amount, I have toyed with the idea of trying to arrange a Mauser Collectors Show, with display and trade among participants only. But I don't know if there is enough demand, and I worry about the insurance liability.


Hambone
I Have A Tina Tuner Style Haircut



2647 Posts
Posted - 12/07/2003 : 3:19:32 PM
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Runner, I would set up at vet unit reunions with items that I would invite them to handle, my shooter M1 they could manual of arms with, etc. I did have positive experiences setting up, but they were far outweighed by bad behaviour and worry about my collection and it's destruction or theft by the aforementioned persons. To be honest, I cannot think of a single memorable item I was able to purchase as a result of setting up approx. 20 displays.

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graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1294 Posts
Posted - 12/07/2003 : 4:26:40 PM
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Regarding the problems encountered while setting up displays, much depends on the venue... in Hartford the show didn't attract the lunatics that show up at the gunshows I usually go to in Florida...

I have toyed with the idea of doing a display table at a local gun show here in Florida, but every time I go to a show & watch how some of the crowd behaves around valuable rifles & displays I always come back with a "you'll be sorry if you do" attitude!

There is a well know collector who always has nice (though very expensive) rifles & accessories at his table (practically a display as his prices are so high they never seem to sell & show up at every show he attends), and as he alluded to me at the last show... it is often most difficult dealing with the poor mannered crowds & setting up displays would be a problematic endeavor with little satisfaction in the end.

The thing is though, the experience in Hartford was so satisfying in regards to meeting with experienced collectors, getting to hands on examine any rifle on display (or in Peters collection later), and then later to have a lengthy dialog after the show!
The only gun shows that I have ever attended (besides the huge Pomona “Great Western” gun shows in the 80’s) that I spent more than a couple hours at were the ones held in Hartford by YCGG where I spent the entire 7 hours both times!

I will try to do a display here shortly… unfortunately I will have to strap my rifles down!


quote:
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Originally posted by Hambone

Runner, I would set up at vet unit reunions with items that I would invite them to handle, my shooter M1 they could manual of arms with, etc. I did have positive experiences setting up, but they were far outweighed by bad behaviour and worry about my collection and it's destruction or theft by the aforementioned persons. To be honest, I cannot think of a single memorable item I was able to purchase as a result of setting up approx. 20 displays.

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
http://militaryriflejournal.com/

http://gewehr98.com/



peterkuck
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
305 Posts
Posted - 12/07/2003 : 6:13:34 PM
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Runner
Try the Virginia Gun Collectors (even TP showed up last time) VGCA has two shows a year in Bealton at Hugos (don't confuse them with the other guys who have shows at the same location. Nice guys, great displays, and they also have awards for the best displays.
regards
peter
http://www.ycgg.org/display12.html
http://www.ycgg.org/display2.html


The Great Billdildoe
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1910 Posts
Posted - 12/07/2003 : 7:10:36 PM
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I have toyed wit the idea of an imperial arms display for soem years.But the decent big shows here in KY have had a bad spate of chicken thieves of tall order. And the "hammer clicker/tire cicker crowd at times can be most unpleasent - like an inflamed rhoid !!.
I still love to impart info at shows with and too prospective buyer/sellers.Although they don't always appreciate the picking out of obvious flaws that make or break their dreams ( or banks ).
Oh well maybe one day for sh*ts and Giggles.


peterkuck
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
305 Posts
Posted - 12/07/2003 : 9:17:09 PM
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last mays displays ycgg


peterkuck
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
305 Posts
Posted - 12/07/2003 : 9:18:44 PM
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