[Bill In Indiana]

Am in the process of sorting an estate collection, and ran across this carbine. Thought I might post some pictures of it. Have also pulled in this quote from DocAV that seemed relevant. Enjoy....

I can't get the Photo, but some "Kar-88--7mm" (Haenel M1907) were bought/smuggled into Mexico during the 1910-1920 revolution.
It would be idiotic for getting them in"8"mm. as ammo would be hard to come by, whereas 7x57 was the Mexican national standard.

Supply of clips could have been a problem...unless a large batch came with the carbines...or even a large batch of DM export 7mm ammo already in M88 Clips.
BTW, the M1907 7mm M88s were readily available from Hamburg Outfitters ALFA and AKAH, besides direct from Haenel prior to 1914...maybe even some got over to Mexico during WW I...Neutral shipping from a neutral Port, such as Spain or Portugal or Holland/Skandinavia. It is known that goods were allowed transit to some Neutral countries out of Europe by the Allies ( ie...Switzerland to Spain ( across France in Sealed Railcars) and then onto to mexico, or via Sweden or Norway and onto Mexico. Since these were classed as "sporting Goods" they did not have the restrictions of "Military Contracts"...and so could pass, in small quantities, unobserved..... .....An interesting subplot to the Mexican Revolution.

 

[car99]

Thanks Bill, that's a rare beauty!

 

[Plevna]

What a fascinating side light to Gew 88 history and production! I cannot help but wonder how many other examples of this presumably low production variant have survived through the years.

 

[jim7x57]

I also have an example in 7x57mm. Years ago, I purchased several in 8x57mm (non-S marked). So both calibers went to Mexico.

My 7x57mm Haenel is marked Model 1907, an indication of a trials arm for China, Mexico, and/or Ecuador.

 

[Plevna]

As we are often told, when it rains it pours. A friend in Germany (Danke, Peter!) passed along the following link to an online auction in Europe for yet another 1907 Haenel Kar 88 in 7 mm.
Click here: Hermann Historica - Internationales Auktionshaus für Antiken, Alte Waffen, Orden und Ehrenzeichen, Historische Sam
or
http://www.hermann-historica.de/auk...3_s.txt&f=ZAEHLER&c=1099&t=temartic_S_D&co=48
The additional markings on the receiver of this piece might be of interest.

 

[Bill In Indiana]

Very interesting. My example has no left side reciever markings (H star etc) nor traces of any, or signs of removal. This example seems to be missing the stock cartouche/crown.

 

[jim7x57]

The "G.D.M." marking on the auction example may stand for "Gobierno De Mexico" or Government of Mexico.

 

[Jericho]

Has anyone here encountered a Commission rifle 88 in 9x57mm caliber?

 

[Plevna]

Jericho: Intriguing question. I presume such a chambering would have been for one of the sporting rifles based on the Gew 88 action and produced post-1900 (possibly by Haenel?). While the focus of my own research and collecting has been oriented toward military Gew. 88 production and history, I remain convinced that a detailed study of these lesser known Gew. 88 variants would be a most worthwhile undertaking. I hope other members of this forum "chime in" with some information.

 

[Peconga]

Has anyone here encountered a Commission rifle 88 in 9x57mm caliber?

Yes, I have seen three of them over the years and even owned one for a few years. All were sporting rifles built by Haenel on the Kar 88 action, with typical features such as double triggers, half octagon barrel, spoon bolt handle, etc. Two were rifles with 24" barrels (including mine) and the other one was a full-stocked (Mannlicher style) carbine with 20" barrel. I suspect that other makers like Schilling also built sporting rifles in 9x57, but obviously the vast majority of all Kar 88 sporters were chambered for 8x57J. Curiously, all the examples of the Kar 88 that I have seen over the years in 7x57 (four or five of them) were in military configuration like the one shown above, not sporters.

 

[DocAV]

The Military configuration of the Kar88-7mm was for a lot of countries where 7mm was the standard calibre. I have one of my Kar88-7mm which was captured in the Persian Gulf ( sound familiar?) in 1911!!! by the Royal Navy on "anti slavery trafficking patrol" ( RN HMS Philomel, a TorpedoBoat Destroyer( as they were called then ...Nowadays, "Destroyer")...ideal for close to shore actions. The Philomel was transferred to the RNZN, during WW I, and the rifle (complete with Plaque detailing who, where and when it was captured) is now in my collection.

Even though the Middle East was an Ottoman preserve ( and 7,65 Mauser calibre) the Persians (Iran) had 7mm M1895s from early 1900 ( Olsen, etc), so 7mm ammo was not a problem. And the slaver who was relieved of his Kar88-7mm, must have been fairly well off, to afford such a Piece...but then slaving was a remunerative profession.

The same logic applied in Latin America , with its many 7mm countries, so a "sporting" rifle which could double as a Military Piece for Officers or gentlemen, would have a ready market.
Haenel ( and the Wholesalers) did offer the Kar88 (1907 ) in four or five calibres, enough to cover any reasonable need.

regards, Doc AV
AV Ballistics.

 

[MikeWilliamson]

http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh119/mzmadmike/guns/Haenel/ I just got one from a friend. Lovely rifle, but Bubba "improved" it with a recoil pad. Every number matches, including the receiver screws and stock.

 

[bandook]

I notice that Haenel uses a crown on the receiver. Loewe and Steyr did not, as they (also) were not Imperial or royal arsenals. How did Haenel get away with it? Or did they use a "fantasy" crown..i.e. one not really in use by Imperial or royal governments?

 

[TP]

The crown is a fantasy, Haenel did not use a crown n their cartouch. It may have been added by Haenel (or anyone else) since this appears to have been made as a civilian arm.

 

[MikeWilliamson]

Mine has the same crown, and in several locations (receiver, barrel, etc), so it appears to be factory and normal (all markings and numbers on mine match). The Gendarmerie gun does not. Haenel had a Mexican contract for 7mm at one point, so it may be part of that issue, or there's a possibility of it being Spanish or Chilean. I'll try to blow the crown up and compare to others.

Side-mounted sling mounts mark this as a probable military arm. That generally wasn't done for civilian weapons, and in fact, was illegal in Germany, as were winged front sights (those are "military features." Yes, that stupidity goes that far back).

I'm not sure if the filled sling mounts on mine were done as a factory sport conversion at some point, or by the same bubba who put the recoil pad on.

 

[TP]

Mexico never used a crown on their military rifles nor did Chile and I am not aware that Spain ever made use of the Kar88 even on a trials basis.

The filled sling mount in the butt stock was done by the same individual that removed the rear band.

 

[MikeWilliamson]

The filled sling mount in the butt stock was done by the same individual that removed the rear band.

Yeah, that was my guess. It didn't look like a great job. Adequate, but not impressive, and WTF were they thinking?

Of course, compared to this butchery:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=270901767

:barf:

I'll research the crown. It doesn't really makes sense to have it, but if it's on more than one gun, it was for a reason of some kind.