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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here are some photos of my C 96 with the extended magazine for 20 rounds capacity and all attached to the C 96's stock. The stock's holster (harness as some call it) is shown as well. The magazine extension can be inserted into the holster's pouch for carrying when not mounted on the C 96. A photo of the extension located in the pouch for storage is shown. If the extra long magazine spring is not compressed inside the extension while the extension is in the pouch, an extra 10 round loaded clip could be carried inside the hollow extension. The mag. extension mounted on the C 96 and the C 96 attached to the stock looks very impressive but loading the mag with 20 rounds does not make it worth while as far as I'm concerned. Loading the mag. with just 10 rounds is much faster getting the weapon back into action. All comments are welcome.
 

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is it registered as a SBR to conform with current ATF regulations pertaining to shoulder stocks on anything not in their original condition as originally manufactured ? -
 

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DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS
WASHINGTON, DC 20226
NOV 15 1999
903050:RV 3311

Mr. [redacted]
[redacted]
Dear Mr. [redacted]:
This is in reply to your letter dated November 8, 1999, in which you have requested a determination on the classification of a Mauser 1896 pistol with a newly manufactured wooden holster/shoulder stock, as a curio or relic.
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has previously determined that an 1896 Mauser pistol with a reproduction holster/stock that closely approximates or duplicates the original holster/stock, is excluded from the provisions of the National Firearms Act.
Further, the Bureau has previously determined that such firearm is a curio or relic as defined in Title 27 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), section 178.11. Thus, licensed collector's may acquire, hold, or dispose of it as a curio or relic subject to the provisions of 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44 and 27 CFR Part 178. It is still a "firearm" as defined in 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44.
We trust that the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry. If you have further questions concerning this matter, please contact us.
Sincerely yours,
/signed/
Edward M. Owen, Jr.
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch



DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20226
MAY 29 1981
T:T:F:CHB 7540


Dr. [redacted]
Odin international
Fairfax, VA
Dear Dr. [redacted]:
This refers to your letters of March 13 and March 30, 1981, in which you ask that certain Luger and Browning Hi-Power pistols equipped with reproduction shoulder stocks be considered for removal from the provisions of the National Firearms Act.
It is not the policy of this Bureau to render a classification on a shoulder stock which in and of itself is not subject to the provisions of the Gun Control Act or the NFA. However, as you are aware, certain Luger and Browning Hi-Power pistols when accompanied by original shoulder stocks have been removed from the purview of the NFA.
Our Firearms Classification Panel has examined your request and it is their opinion that the above mentioned pistols equipped with currently made reproduction shoulder stocks which either duplicate or closely approximate the dimensions and configuration of the original stocks would also be primarily of interest to collectors and not likely to be used as weapons. Therefore, any Luger or Browning Hi-Power pistol which would be removed from the purview of the NFA if equipped with an original shoulder stock, would also not be subject to the NFA if equipped with a reproduction shoulder stock which either duplicates or closely approximates the dimensions and configuration of the original stock.
It must be pointed out that should one of the subject reproduction stocks be attached to any handgun which has not been specifically removed from the purview of the NFA with an original stock, the combination would be subject to all of the registration and transfer provisions of the NFA.
We trust that the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry. If we can be of any further assistance, please contact us.
Sincerely yours,
[signed]
C. Michael Hoffman
Assistant Director
(Technical and Scientific Services)
 

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DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS
WASHINGTON, DC 20226
NOV 15 1999
903050:RV 3311

Mr. [redacted]
[redacted]
Dear Mr. [redacted]:
This is in reply to your letter dated November 8, 1999, in which you have requested a determination on the classification of a Mauser 1896 pistol with a newly manufactured wooden holster/shoulder stock, as a curio or relic.
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has previously determined that an 1896 Mauser pistol with a reproduction holster/stock that closely approximates or duplicates the original holster/stock, is excluded from the provisions of the National Firearms Act.
Further, the Bureau has previously determined that such firearm is a curio or relic as defined in Title 27 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), section 178.11. Thus, licensed collector's may acquire, hold, or dispose of it as a curio or relic subject to the provisions of 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44 and 27 CFR Part 178. It is still a "firearm" as defined in 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44.
We trust that the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry. If you have further questions concerning this matter, please contact us.
Sincerely yours,
/signed/
Edward M. Owen, Jr.
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch



DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20226
MAY 29 1981
T:T:F:CHB 7540


Dr. [redacted]
Odin international
Fairfax, VA
Dear Dr. [redacted]:
This refers to your letters of March 13 and March 30, 1981, in which you ask that certain Luger and Browning Hi-Power pistols equipped with reproduction shoulder stocks be considered for removal from the provisions of the National Firearms Act.
It is not the policy of this Bureau to render a classification on a shoulder stock which in and of itself is not subject to the provisions of the Gun Control Act or the NFA. However, as you are aware, certain Luger and Browning Hi-Power pistols when accompanied by original shoulder stocks have been removed from the purview of the NFA.
Our Firearms Classification Panel has examined your request and it is their opinion that the above mentioned pistols equipped with currently made reproduction shoulder stocks which either duplicate or closely approximate the dimensions and configuration of the original stocks would also be primarily of interest to collectors and not likely to be used as weapons. Therefore, any Luger or Browning Hi-Power pistol which would be removed from the purview of the NFA if equipped with an original shoulder stock, would also not be subject to the NFA if equipped with a reproduction shoulder stock which either duplicates or closely approximates the dimensions and configuration of the original stock.
It must be pointed out that should one of the subject reproduction stocks be attached to any handgun which has not been specifically removed from the purview of the NFA with an original stock, the combination would be subject to all of the registration and transfer provisions of the NFA.
We trust that the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry. If we can be of any further assistance, please contact us.
Sincerely yours,
[signed]
C. Michael Hoffman
Assistant Director
(Technical and Scientific Services)
that only applies to items only in original unaltered condition - ODIN has been shuttered for over 40 years + regulations have changed drastically since then - see recent email from ATF compliance specialist - my name + email have been removed - - ATF is both a regulatory + an enforcement agency that can make changes at any time + only be over ruled by court or unanimous legislative action - the only way a stock is currently legal on a C96 is if the C96 is C+R eligible - the non original extension magazine removes it from that category - contact the ATF compliance specialist in his recent email to verify the current ATF regulations -


Mr.??????

Thank you for your recent inquiry to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). This is in response to your email, in which you inquired about buying and selling firearms by a Type 03 Collector of Curios and Relics Federal Firearms License (FFL).

A person may obtain a collector’s license. However, this license applies only to transactions in curio or relic firearms. A dealer’s license must be obtained to engage in the business of dealing in any firearms, including curios or relics.

Please see this ATF FAQ (emphasis added):

What firearms are considered to be curio and relic firearms?

Curio and relic firearms are defined as firearms which are of special interest to collectors because they possess some qualities not ordinarily associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as a curio or relic, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

(1) Firearms manufactured at least 50 years prior the current date, but not including replicas thereof;
(2) Firearms certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and
(3) Firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, or bizarre or from the fact of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.

++++ ATF has recognized only complete, assembled firearms as curios or relics. ATF’s classification of surplus military firearms as curios or relics has extended only to those firearms in their original military configuration. Frames or receivers of curios or relics are not generally recognized as curios or relics.****

Collectors wishing to obtain a determination whether a particular firearm qualifies for classification as a curio or relic may submit a written request for a determination to ATF’s
Firearms Technology Branch. ATF’s classifications of curios and relics firearms are published in ATF Publication 5300.11.

Please see all Collectors FAQs.

In addition, there may be State laws that pertain to this proposed activity. Contact State Police units or the office of your State Attorney General (www.naag.org) for information on any such requirements. You may also find information in ATF publication 5300.5, State Laws and Published Ordinances - Firearms.

We trust the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry. Should you have additional questions, please contact your local ATF office. A listing of ATF office phone numbers can be found here.


Regards,

L. Babbie | Firearms Enforcement Specialist
U.S. Department of Justice | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
Firearms Industry Programs Branch
99 New York Avenue NE, Mail Stop 6.N-518
Washington, DC 20226

3854098

Federal Firearms Reference Guide ATF Publication 5300.4, published in September 2005, “If a person has a pistol and an attachable shoulder stock, does this constitute possession of an NFA firearm?” Answer, quoted from the Guide: “Yes, unless the barrel of the pistol is at least 16 inches in length (and the overall length of the firearm with stock attached is at least 26 inches). However, certain stocked handguns, * !!! such as original semiautomatic Mauser * !!! “Broomhandles” and Lugers, have been removed from the purview of the NFA as collectors’ items.” Then this, in the agency’s Firearms Curio and Relics List ATF Publication 5300.11, from December 2007: “SECTION III: Weapons Removed From The NFA As Collector’s Items And Classified As Curios Or Relics Under The GCA. The Bureau has determined that by reason of the date of their manufacture, value, design and other characteristics, the following firearms are primarily collector’s items and are not likely to be used as weapons and, therefore, are excluded from the provisions of the National Firearms Act. Further, the Bureau has determined that such firearms are also curios or relics as defined in 27 CFR 478.11. Thus, licensed collectors may acquire, hold, or dispose of them as curios or relics subject to the provisions of 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44 and 27 CFR Part 478. They are still ‘firearms’ as defined in 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44.”
 

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In the good old days, Sarco used to sell those magazine extensions. I have looked forever, but have never seen them offered again. It did make the broomhandle just a bit more fun.
 

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Kind of like putting a ProMag banana clip on SKS fun?
Well, way back then they sold broomhandles from china with shot out bores, loads of corrosion. I just had to have one, and for $60 bucks , no problem. It was never going to be a collector grade pistol, so I had the barrel relined in 9mm. Corrosion removed, and had it parkerised.. I put the magazine extension on it, and enjoyed it. I got some great conversations from it at the range. I still am sad I sold it, but was moving to Hawaii at the time.
 

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It needs a Mauser model 712 Schnellfeuer machine pistol happy switch. Aside from that, I like it.
Anyone remember Federal Ordnance of El Monte, Calif ? sometime in the late 70's or during
the 1980's, they had some Mauser 712 pistols with the lowers cut in pieces. they machined
a new semi auto lower that would used the 10 & 20 rd magazines and used the 712 uppers..
Have not seen one around in years
 

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Anyone remember Federal Ordnance of El Monte, Calif ? sometime in the late 70's or during
the 1980's, they had some Mauser 712 pistols with the lowers cut in pieces. they machined
a new semi auto lower that would used the 10 & 20 rd magazines and used the 712 uppers..
Have not seen one around in years
You are right, I have not seen or thought about one for years. I should have got one, I did get the Fed Ord M1A.
 

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You are right, I have not seen or thought about one for years. I should have got one, I did get the Fed Ord M1A.
from original Federal Ordnance catalog - - they are illegal to use with any original or repro shoulder stock with out a 16" barrel or a valid SBR tax stamp due to frame not being in original as manufactured configuration -
DSCN1616.JPG
DSCN1615.JPG
 

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in many states it is illegal to remove orange tip from any airsoft weapon - not aware of any airsoft that held standard ammo - Is It Illegal to Remove the Orange Tip From An Airsoft Gun? - The Elite Drone


quotes { The mag. extension mounted on the C 96 and the C 96 attached to the stock looks very impressive but loading the mag with 20 rounds does not make it worth while as far as I'm concerned. Loading the mag. with just 10 rounds is much faster getting the weapon back into action. All comments are welcome. ] - --- vintovka --- You are right. The 20 round mag extension is a snug fit in the big pouch on the stock's holster. I've never tried that fit before but the extension slides right into the pouch. The extension's spring could be forced into the extension while in the pouch but with GREAT care to prevent the spring from flying out. ]
 

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Your extended magazine appears longer than the standard Mauser 20 shot magazine. As it seems to be of great interest could you provide some detailed pictures of it? Could you show how it attaches? Regards,
 

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the aftermarket extension magazines i have examined had a spring loaded lever at front mag that fit over the lip at front of lower frame providing a friction fit -
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
1914 ---- Yes I'll try to show some detailed pics of the 20 rounder and how it attaches to the C 96. I'll provide dimensions too.

schutzen ---- My extension mag doesn't appear to have the the spring loaded lever you refer to above. The pics I'll provide for 1914 will show how the extension attaches and its measurements . Hope it answers your questions as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
1914 & schutzen ----- Attached below are some photos of the 20 round mag extension the attachment latch, the magazine's internal spring, a tape measure showing the length of the extension piece, 4 5/8" and the mag extension attached to the pistol. The attachment latch provides a solid fit to the original 10 round magazine . If there is something else you might have questions concerning the mag and its hook up just let me know and I'll try to provide.
The 20 round mag extension attaches to the 10 mag frame just the same as the original floor plate attaches to the 10 round frame. No wobble or play when the 20 round extension is installed.
 

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The magazine extension is different than the ones by Oyster Bay that I have seen. It is and extension and not what I would call a detachable magazine. I assume it came with a longer spring but you use the same follower? It looks like it might hold more than 20 rounds. I do not think BATF would have an issue if using a stock with it as is not a permanent modification. Regards,
 
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