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Wonder why they didn't release the JHP at the same time. I just checked all the dist. I could think of and no one is showing it, several indicate coming soon. $22/box ain't that bad and I was going to order a couple of boxes but shipping is 16$ to East Tn. Think I'll hold off a little while or until I can do better on the shipping.
 

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Wonder why they didn't release the JHP at the same time. I just checked all the dist. I could think of and no one is showing it, several indicate coming soon. $22/box ain't that bad and I was going to order a couple of boxes but shipping is 16$ to East Tn. Think I'll hold off a little while or until I can do better on the shipping.
Based on the OPs link to the story of this round, it might be that Buffalo Bore doesn't believe in the JHP for SD. They seem to think that their hard cast flat point bullet might be better than the JHP because of better penetration.
 

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May be ok. But what is the difference for self defense between their hard cast and ball ammo? Neither will expand, both will pentrate deep. Maybe more shock value with the flat point, but other than that I don't see any difference.



Based on the OPs link to the story of this round, it might be that Buffalo Bore doesn't believe in the JHP for SD. They seem to think that their hard cast flat point bullet might be better than the JHP because of better penetration.
 

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May be ok. But what is the difference for self defense between their hard cast and ball ammo? Neither will expand, both will pentrate deep. Maybe more shock value with the flat point, but other than that I don't see any difference.
Well, here is their contention taken from their article:

" If I am trying to stop a 300+lb drugged up, violent attacker with a 380 ACP, I want a bullet that can get deep and do a lot of damage at the same time. Flat nosed solid bullets do that. Typical old style round nosed FMJ bullets tend to slip and slide through living tissue and as they do this, they can get sideways and loose penetration - never mind they don't do a lot of damage as they slip and slide. Flat nosed solid bullets tend to cut/smash through material doing a lot of damage and that cutting/smashing action keeps the bullet nose forward, creating the potential for much deeper penetration than a round nose bullet."

I can accept that point but I'd like to see some testing on the matter of flat vs round bullets. I also agree that the non-hollow point will penetrate layers of soft clothing better and deeper.
 

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Well, here is their contention taken from their article:

" If I am trying to stop a 300+lb drugged up, violent attacker with a 380 ACP, I want a bullet that can get deep and do a lot of damage at the same time. Flat nosed solid bullets do that. Typical old style round nosed FMJ bullets tend to slip and slide through living tissue and as they do this, they can get sideways and loose penetration - never mind they don't do a lot of damage as they slip and slide. Flat nosed solid bullets tend to cut/smash through material doing a lot of damage and that cutting/smashing action keeps the bullet nose forward, creating the potential for much deeper penetration than a round nose bullet."

I can accept that point but I'd like to see some testing on the matter of flat vs round bullets. I also agree that the non-hollow point will penetrate layers of soft clothing better and deeper.
Not to mention reliability factor. Will the flat nose feed good in all the 9x18's? I would want to shoot a lot thru my guns before I trusted them. All my 9x18's feed ball and HP good.
 

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Don't underestimate a flat point hardcast bullet. Those flat points do a lot of damage compared to ball ammo, maybe not as much as a hollowpoint but I bet it's close at these velocities. Really big game pistol hunters almost always use a wide flat point or keith type semi wadcutter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Don't underestimate a flat point hardcast bullet. Those flat points do a lot of damage compared to ball ammo, maybe not as much as a hollowpoint but I bet it's close at these velocities. Really big game pistol hunters almost always use a wide flat point or keith type semi wadcutter.
+1

Reference "Elmer Keith"
 

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The chief difference to think about between a Hard Cast FN and a FMJ is the meplat measurement.

Meplat is the diameter of the nose of the bullet. The larger the meplat (i.e. the more blunt it is), the more surface area that is damaged on contact with the target. This larger surface area will also slow the bullet down and does limit its penetration. A wadcutter bullet's frontal area is the same as the bullet's diameter.

A high meplat figure serves to make the hard cast flat nose bullet develop the highly destructive forces discussed on Buffalo's Bores website. It creates a large wound channel without having to worry if the bullet will expand to cause one like in a JHP. It also stabilizes the bullet's path as it penetrates so that it doesn't bounce around like a FMJ and it makes a larger wound channel than a JHP or FMJ through out its penetration depth because it starts it with a larger diameter. These bullets operate very differently from jacketed bullets, and the ballistic information for one type isn't necessarily applicable to the other kind.

One thing to keep in mind is that FN bullets are not long range bullets as they lose velocity quickly and drop quicker than a more aerodynamic bullet which will retain a flatter trajectory through its flight path. Pistol FN bullets are really made for self defense ranges, 5-8 yards .

Buffalo Bores claim that a wide/flat "meplat" (nose) will crush its way through the target and does not require any expansion to be effective matches what my Alaskan friends have told me of their results with .44 Mag hard cast FN bullets that they carry for personal safety. They have related stories of awesome penetration with devastating results. They prefer a hard cast FN bullet over any others. So, when I read Buffalo Bores reasoning, I can understand that it could offer the similar results for self defense situations.
 

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Don't underestimate a flat point hardcast bullet. Those flat points do a lot of damage compared to ball ammo, maybe not as much as a hollowpoint but I bet it's close at these velocities. Really big game pistol hunters almost always use a wide flat point or keith type semi wadcutter.
If I was only limited to 94gr FMJ then I might be more apt to try these.

I still will order a box eventually.
 

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Thanks for posting this. With the emphasis on penetration, I've been torn about continuing with the Hornady XTPs I have been using or just going back to FMJ hardball. This sounds like it might be the best option yet.

It does raise a question for me though. It was always my understanding that the entire basis of the 9X18 cartridge by the Soviets was to have the most powerful cartridge you could with a blow-back design. Just makes me wonder how these will function with +P pressures? Are they just taking it to the furthest edge of the envelope? I think I would like to hear some real world experience on cycling before I try these out.
 

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I would treat it like any other +P ammo. Make sure it will function. Then continue to shoot standard ammo for practice and use the +P for carry. Of course you could just stay with standard velocity ammo and not worry with it.
 

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The flatpoints are basically wadcutters. Look at how they cut paper and then a FMJ-RN. Wadcutters punch a clean, round hole while RN "push" through the paper. I personally will not hunt with a HP bullet in anything but a .22 LR or varmint rouns. I use semi-jacketed SPs for all handgun calibers. HPs yaw in lighter weights, sometimes very quickly.
 

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Not impressed.... 255 FPE has been done. In fact the Corbon 70 gr Pow'r ball round develops a velocity of 1348 FPS, and a muzzle enrgy of 282 FPE and is superior ballistcally as a SD round to the Buffalo Bore Hardcast. It will not penetrate like the Buffalo Bore.

Personally I have a stock of Silver Bear 115 Gr HP's that produce 1011 FPS and 261 FPE, and I believe they will provide enough penetration without over penetration.

IMHO!

D
 

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Just checked out the buffalo Bore specs against their own 380. thier 380 hardcast out performs the Mak cartridge. ??? Seems they could at least jack it up to the same level as their 380 round. Funny, I emailed Buffalo Bore and inquired as to whether or not they thought my LCP would stand up tho their 380 + P they said it would, just don't feed it a steady diet of them then the writer went into a pretty long commentary about how I shouldn't trust my life to a .380. Then went into Buffalo Bores views on hard cast bullets. I guess it is the same reasoning that Rigby and Winchester used back in the day of doubl riflesrifles against 8,000
 
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