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Hi all,

I am selling one of my C&R rifles to a non-licensee through a dealer in his state and I'm not sure how to properly log the disposition in my bound book for my C&R license. Do I enter the dealer's information or the information of the individual to which I am selling the rifle? My gut tells me it is the dealer's info that should be logged since that is where the firearm is being transferred, but I've never had to do this before. Thanks for any advise!

Patrick
 

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The dealer is who you transferred the firearm to. He will subsequently transfer it off of his books to the buyer.

So you will have a bill of sale to the individual, but you will show the transfer in your book to the FFL dealer.
 

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Depending on your feeling on "the man" knowing "your business," it wouldn't hurt to keep info on both. Like Hershmeister said, the weapon transaction is with the dealer, but is financed through the buyer. I would put that information in my book. Unlike some (not implying anyone specific...but a generalization) I'm not trying to "hide" anything and I log all the information I can in my book. Better to have too much documented than not enough.
 

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Dealer, period. Do EXACTLY as the Federal regs say, no more, no less. This subject is pretty simple, not likely to cause problems like other "expansions" of the regulations but it's still a possibility.
Assuming your hens all grow teeth when the moon is blue and you get an audit the ATF agent just may get ticked off by having to wade through too much, or gig you for not keeping simple and neat records.
 

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I've been through enough government inspections to know that if you show it to them, they consider it fair to criticize it. Show them only what they need to see to finish the inspection and keep the target small...
 

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You log it in as the dealer its going to.
Remember, it must go to an FFL and it is tech that FFL's firearm until they transfer it over to the person.
 

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Whom did you sell it to , the dealer or the buyer ? It look's like you gave it to the dealer without payment. The buyer paid you NOT the FFL . The FFL did not purchase anything from you !! The FFL. is doing a transfer Between you and the buyer . You log it as sold to the party who paid you, with the FFL Lic. number and his or her address etc .. You must show the movement between you and the person you sold it .
 

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Whom did you sell it to , the dealer or the buyer ? It look's like you gave it to the dealer without payment. The buyer paid you NOT the FFL . The FFL did not purchase anything from you !! The FFL. is doing a transfer Between you and the buyer . You log it as sold to the party who paid you, with the FFL Lic. number and his or her address etc .. You must show the movement between you and the person you sold it .
^^^^^^wrong, for every reason already listed. The receiving FFL logs it out, does the background check, etc. Who paid who is irrelevant.
 

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You log it out to the 01 FFL dealer, the dealer then logs it in his books and out to the buyer ... the store I work at does transfers all the time.

Patrick
 

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Not to pile on Doc63 too much, but the govt. doesn't really care who paid, they want to know who you legally transferred the firearm to. That would be the receiving FFL.
 

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Patrick, sometimes things are not that simple . I was at a gun show when I guy comes up to me and wants to purchase a rifle I had for sale. We arrived at fair price . He wants to pay with a check. He is from out of state . I make out a sales recipe for the purchase of the gun with his name, address ,phone number and the understanding that the check must clear my bank etc.. Before the gun can be his . I said I would need to ship it him by way of a FFL. in his state . Three days later he faxed me a signed copy of a FFL. .Ten days later the check clears the bank .I pack up the gun and send it to his FFL. with a copy of the sales slip. End of story, not by a long shot !! 180 days later I get a call from the FFL. I shipped the gun to and he is not happy camper !!! He still has the gun and the A.T.F. was in his shop the day before for a routine inspection . They asked him to pull guns from his inventory when they were checking his bound books to see if they matched by serial number etc.. When the owner brought out it had the sales slip attached showing it was to go a buyer but was never transferred . The dealer said he forgot that he still had it . He remembered getting it in for a transfer he called the person listed on the paper work that came with gun , but the phone number was not in service . He put the gun on his hold rack thinking the guy would come in to ask about it ,and there it was 180 days latter. The FFL. said he can't keep it, no one has come in for it and it is not his property in the first place. HE can not sale it to any one ! It appears that the buyer was living in a apartment complex and moved right after he had sent the FFL's license to the seller without leaving a forwarding address. The rental agency is still holding his deposit for the first months rent . In the end I paid the shipping for the FFl. to send back to me
,
 

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Interesting story, but it really has no relevance to the OP. You log the firearm out of your boundbook to the person legally allowed to receive it, usually an 01 or 03 for an interstate deal. It really is that simple. As long as the FFL you sent your rifle to logged the gun into his boundbook, he may have been inconvenienced, but he did nothing wrong or illegal.
 

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jonny c is correct ... the FFL dealer who you initially sent it to logs it in his books, he is the holder of the firearm till the transfer takes place. Now if BATFE agent told him to send it back to you then when you received it you log back in your book from them, plain and simple.

Patrick
 

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Just had my visitation by a compliance officer (atf) for my FFL...disposition is where it went... If mailed to a dealer they only want dealer s name and FFL number, no worries about writing out the entire address... As mentioned the receiving dealer will record it out to the buyer..

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
 

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Its very simple, you send the gun to the ffl and log it in your book as going to them. THEY then log it in and then out to the customer. If you understood that then you understand there is no loose ends and the buyer is going down in a bound book when he picks it up.
 

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If for some reason you do this wrong (logging the gun to the buyer), there are now two chains of title:
1-Your records would show that you transferred the gun to the buyer
2-the FFL records would show that you transferred to him, and then he to the buyer.

What if the "buyer" is a felon and can't purchase the gun? What if he does or vanishes and never get the gun?
Only one of these is correct, or can be. Don't let it be your problem when the ATF calls.

Log it to the dealer! If he doesn't keep his books right, and leaves a gun in some "hold rack" for six months, that's his problem. The guy needs to keep his records right, as do you. You transferred/disposed of the gun to the dealer. End of story.
 

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The Feds primarily want to track the gun and not necessarily the money.
You log it out to the FFL.
He logs it in and then he logs it out to the buyer.
Don't put the money in the equation that's not what is being tracked.
 
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