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Discussion Starter #1
Hopefully this is a good place to ask. I was wondering what kind of armor you folks have or would recommend? I wouldn’t mind spending about $600 for a good setup while there’s no law against it. Looking for something to stop pistol cartridges and up to 5.56. Don’t think I’ll need it but better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Not really interested in AR500, I’m carrying around enough extra weight right now (beer gut).
 

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Hopefully this is a good place to ask. I was wondering what kind of armor you folks have or would recommend? I wouldn’t mind spending about $600 for a good setup while there’s no law against it. Looking for something to stop pistol cartridges and up to 5.56. Don’t think I’ll need it but better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Not really interested in AR500, I’m carrying around enough extra weight right now (beer gut).
Body armor ratings http://americanarmorassociation.com/american-armor-nij-body-armor-levels/

so select the level you need
5.56 needs NIJ III Max .. going to be heavy also recommend you get "non-Newtonian" pads they are soft gel like pads that turn hard as rocks when hit and they spread the impact out over the armor and your body so a single little spot doesn't take the full impact .. you will still need medical care most likely after a hit, but you won't have holes in the body , maybe some internal damage as long as you get hit in the armor and not exposed flesh hard to find good soft armor level III so probably need Hard plates That's what we use for fugitive recovery ( aka bounty Hunters/ Bail Bond agents ) and Executive protection folks

there are several threads on body armor on the survival forum, look around, they are a couple years back IIRC
 

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Its a balanced triangle you need. Ask any tanker.
Offensive power, (rifle or pistol).
Defensive armor, body or cover.
Mobility & speed.
How fit are you?
How much weight & mass (encumbrance) do you currently carry?
How do you balance mobility, weight & flexibility against threat level.?
 

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Its a balanced triangle you need. Ask any tanker.
Offensive power, (rifle or pistol).
Defensive armor, body or cover.
Mobility & speed.
How fit are you?
How much weight & mass (encumbrance) do you currently carry?
How do you balance mobility, weight & flexibility against threat level.?
Exactly. I never heard anyone complain about wearing armor in the middle of a firefight when I was in combat. There were times I ditched my armor and used my old Y harness LCE especially on steep mountainsides, locating, and clearing cave systems.

Although there is an armor standard and category, not all armor within that category is created equally. We always had Level III+ as that was the standard. One of the unit members got hit three times over several different tours.

All three hits were from 7.62 X 39mm at either point blank or Close Quarter Battle distances. We changed armor designs multiple times during my service using whatever the latest technology was at the time, from ceramics to spider webs. The first time he was hit in the chest center mass, he was put down out of the fight and spent several weeks in the hospital recovering. The second time he was hit in the helmet, knocked unconscious, and was medevac'd and spent several days in the hospital with a concussion. The third time he was once again hit in the chest mass but with different design plates. This time he was was able to participate in killing his attacker but was out of the fight after that spending just a few days in the hospital.

You really need to pay attention to wound cavity and armor deformity especially with rifle caliber hits at the limits of the armor. It can be the difference between staying in the fight and a serious injury requiring some long term hospitalization. Do not buy armor and think you are going to take hits and continue to be effective or that you will not require medical attention.
 

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Get to this ..
just take it off the head shot victims ...:cry::confused::sorry::eek::tisk:

mobility ...vs vests weight vs Extra ammunition..
Sniper hid come to mind..Indian resistance Fighting techniques..

walking around with vest..if a vest is need I’m staying put!

dragon skin I saw was interesting..
Vest illegal in some places I’ve read.
 

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Yes the common misconception that "bullets embed or bounce off" is vastly in error!
There's an allowable penetration (deformity) of the INSIDE of the armor during a strike. Its called "backface signature," & your body adorbs & receives it.
European Armour allows 25mm (1"), U.S allows 44mm ( 1 3/4")!
You going have blunt force trauma injuries, but hey! It's better than a bullet causing a deep penetrating wound.
 

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Might add, they also make stab and cut proof armor, it's different then bullet proof , has a different rating system is much lighter, and in many ways more useful, Just everyday practical stuff gloves and arm protection for folks who work with sharp things from shucking oysters to pruning roses sharpening knives and getting attacked or threatened buy badguys with knives' type vest and clothing, as well as chainsaw chaps .

so unless you are dead sure you will only ever be attacked by a gun and never a knife, might look at a much lighter cheaper stab vest to reduce any threat you might on a day by day just general crime and mayhem way face, won't help with bullets, but it does help with a significant part of actual day to day threats both of a criminal nature and day to hazards of some jobs or occupations or hobbies .

and you can get body armor that does both bullet and stab , mechanics of the threat and protection is different enough that not ALL bullet proof vests are stab proof to a useful level.. and yes stab vest have their own rating based on factors such has how sharp of course, but also how much pressure or force is being applied, or how fast the sharp edge in moving across [slicing] motion , or ["is that a dagger I see before me"] stabbing actions and again how much force of weight behind it.

So if in any particular case, if there is any threat of sharps, even picking up broken glass, or handling sharp or jagged metal edges, rather than just being attacked. there is body armor for that.

maybe you could [have no idea of what anybody's threat analysis or level might be], but a lighter cheaper solution might be enough. search term "stab proof safety clothing and equipment"
 

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just think of the advantages in a knife attack if you had a cut proof gloves to grab the knife or a fore arm sock to block blows/ protect arteries or a vest that prevented penetration of a stab to the main torso/vital organs.

could save a life /give an "edge" in a fight
 

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just think of the advantages in a knife attack if you had a cut proof gloves to grab the knife or a fore arm sock to block blows/ protect arteries or a vest that prevented penetration of a stab to the main torso/vital organs.

could save a life /give an "edge" in a fight
cut proof or cut resistant?


chain mail gloves are a thing, but not impenetrable, and most of the nylon gloves used in the food biz are all labeled cut resistant,

if you pull a knife across one you will not get cut, but the glove will ,

you can poke thru one, no matter how tightly woven
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks for all the info. I’ve found a company making level 4 NIJ ceramic plates RMA Defense. I’m thinking about buying those and trauma pads i guess from AR500. Haven’t looked at plate carriers yet. I don’t carry much around on me as I’m usually at work (factory) and dress lightly or at home in the country but the load I wouldn’t expect to bother me much. Mainly this would be something I’d use if I had to go to Louisville, KY. There’s much better doctors up there than here but there’s some pretty bad areas near the hospitals. Not as bad as when we lived in Atlanta, GA but no way I’ll ever be back there. It keeps getting worse in Louisville, though. I understand it’s not like magic and the energy transferred is very painful and will break bones or cause internal bleeding but better to be broken than dead, right? Most likely threat for me comes from cheap, stolen pistols (common) but it wouldn’t be hard for them to get rifles in the same way.
 

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cut proof or cut resistant?


chain mail gloves are a thing, but not impenetrable, and most of the nylon gloves used in the food biz are all labeled cut resistant,

if you pull a knife across one you will not get cut, but the glove will ,

you can poke thru one, no matter how tightly woven
how much an advantage , how much the cost.. I figure just the surprise once would give you a shot/ an edge.
 

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Thanks for all the info. I’ve found a company making level 4 NIJ ceramic plates RMA Defense. I’m thinking about buying those and trauma pads i guess from AR500. Haven’t looked at plate carriers yet. I don’t carry much around on me as I’m usually at work (factory) and dress lightly or at home in the country but the load I wouldn’t expect to bother me much. Mainly this would be something I’d use if I had to go to Louisville, KY. There’s much better doctors up there than here but there’s some pretty bad areas near the hospitals. Not as bad as when we lived in Atlanta, GA but no way I’ll ever be back there. It keeps getting worse in Louisville, though. I understand it’s not like magic and the energy transferred is very painful and will break bones or cause internal bleeding but better to be broken than dead, right? Most likely threat for me comes from cheap, stolen pistols (common) but it wouldn’t be hard for them to get rifles in the same way.
Get the expensive one that is light weight. It is worth it.

https://rmadefense.com/product/level-iv-hard-armor-plate-model-1199-gen-2/

My suggestion is to get a simple plate carrier. My first tour we had the SPEARS system and we all carried every widget they threw down the hallway. We all ditched it. Get a simply plate carrier harness. My last tour I carried ammo, water, radio, pistol, and a first aid kit. Keep it light and neat.

Whatever you get wear it and be prepared for several days of pain in getting used to it. They will all smoke your back as they seem to find muscles that are not used for anything else but holding up body armor, LOL. If you want it to work in a fight for anything besides making you a better target you have train with it.
 

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Why do we need the vests?

I’m understanding the theory...maybe much of the needs “Duty, job”, and a blow out in our system..
daily waring not practical in my case..

may not have it on when I’m surprised?

so what’s the driven purpose ..to ware every day?
 

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I’m understanding the theory...maybe much of the needs “Duty, job”, and a blow out in our system..
daily waring not practical in my case..

may not have it on when I’m surprised?

so what’s the driven purpose ..to ware every day?
I wasn't saying you should wear it around for EDC. I am saying if you get, wear it around enough that your body adjusts to it and train with it. It is something you must become comfortable with and gain the physical strength in order to be effective in a fight. Otherwise, you are not enhancing your capability but simply detracting from it with an expensive psychological crutch.

I have several very nice sets. Body Armor was developed for MOUT (Urban) warfare and is appropriate inside a house, urban environment, or anywhere that vertical cover rules the day. Infantry combat outside of MOUT is a horizontal cover affair. A chest plate and back plate simply make a nice sandwich for the bullet to bounce around in the meat filling when you take horizontal cover.

You have to look at your equipment and what you intend to do with it.
 

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I recall warnings that if wearing it when you shoot someone in self defense, the trial lawyers who come after everything you own will be delighted and argue it proves you were out looking for trouble...

I suspect this discussion is about defending the "compound" though, not going out into the world in armor.
 

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CC760575-41CE-4D21-83A5-4E10F941D2CB.jpg
level 4 vest with side plates, anti-splash/fragmentation coating. Multi-round rating. 56lbs without ammo/magazines in pouches.
helmet is 3a.
in a vehicle there is 3A soft concealable soft vest with anti-stab/cut ratings.
 

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Oh I was trying to purpose it for myself..?
old weaker balance 67.. carry gun ammo, pistol...
I couldn’t get out of the chair...fast enough to engage The telephone...sadly!

now flack jacket for knives..blunt trauma..

can you imagine warring that in this 95 degree temps..70 humidity, bio pressure..
I sweat Three weeks going 30 steps to paper box..Trash!

i do understand you point..

my age That weight..
im into pre plans,long distance un seen final communications,
that kind of indirect contact Is safer..
out two, three hundred yards..with Indian movements, Hunting Tactics..
Many slow, deliberate steps,
supporting invisibility,
with no direct contacts...
to see being unseen...for long periods of time..

“you know like all us old people do anyway!”
 

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56 lbs ouch. For most people thats gonna slow them down a lot.
That would make my back hurt.
Maybe I'll just sew some ceramic tiles into a hoodie. hehehe
 
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