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Gold Bullet Member and Noted Curmudgeon
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Well, I'd tend to feel more comfortable with General Sanchez's comments if he'd admitted his own performance was somewhat less than perfect...
 

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Diamond with Oak Clusters Bullet Member
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I agree
 

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Gold Bullet Member and Noted Curmudgeon
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I should add a question to my comment supra: "Jjust what advice did he provide about how to do it better while he was in charge on the ground?"
 

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Ah yes the age old trick of the neo-cons, when some comes back from the past to bash their policies they immediately attack his character rather than discuss what he is saying. Why? Because they CAN'T argue against what he is saying. He's speaking the truth.
 

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Let the Swift-Boating begin...


Support Our Troops- as long as they agree with Bush...
 

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Sanchez is bitter because he didn't get a fourth star after he left Iraq. He claimed in a press conference, shortly after he retired, that he was scape-goated because of the prison scandal. Anything he says now has to be taken with that in mind.
 

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Sanchez is bitter because he didn't get a fourth star after he left Iraq. He claimed in a press conference, shortly after he retired, that he was scape-goated because of the prison scandal. Anything he says now has to be taken with that in mind.
There's always an excuse to dispel anyone that doesn't agree with Bush.

Petraeus could resign next week then hit the Sunday morning talk shows saying how much of a failure the situation is and the neo-cons would pounce all over him like a bunch of tigers on a dying antelope.

"He's a traitor."

or

"That's just his opinion." As if all of a sudden his opinion doesn't count. Oh really? Well it counted before when he was in charge of carrying out your stupid policy.
 

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Whoa up - no attacks from this quarter on General Sanchez. But I would feel more comfortable with the claims if he admitted he had been part of the problem - and if I knew what advice (if any) he'd provided as to a way to do it better.

Since simple observation indicates his own performance was less than perfect (and I don't claim mine would have been either), commentary that recognizes that would leave me more comfortable. It is like this - my own observations as a member of the Bar for over thirty years, with a LOT of criminal defense indicate that folks who were part of something and claim everything that went wrong was somebody else's responsibility are usually either (a) stupid as a post, which Sanchez isn't; (b) denying their own failures (possible); (c) actively involved in villainy and trying to hide it (also possible, though I think in this instance less likely that c or d); or (d) sufficiently egotistical that they simply can't see that they made mistakes themselves (quite possible).

And of course there is the possibility of seeking revenge for fancied (or perhaps genuine) slights, as Amtraker suggests.

And since I don't know what advice General Sanchez provided (and whether it was taken), what resources he asked for and was denied (if in fact he asked for things he was told he couldn't have), I'd sort of like to know what it was to help me evaluate his claims at this point. None of those are an attack on his character - they are simply observations and questions. Answer them, from knowledge not speculation, and I'll decide whether he is a villain or not.
 

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Mauserboy simple question. Have you ever been involved in a counterinsurgency? You seem to talk like you have been. Have you been on the ground in Iraq or Afghanistan, or anywhere else for that matter? You're sharing your opinions with people who have and are currently. You base your opinions, it seems, on what you read versus what you have never experienced first hand. Perhaps it might do some good to "listen" to people who have actually done these things. Just my opinion.
 

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Have you been on the ground in Iraq or Afghanistan, or anywhere else for that matter?
Nearly 4,000 Americans dead; approximately 40,000 causalities

You base your opinions, it seems, on what you read versus what you have never experienced first hand.
Roughly $800 billion spent in Iraq

Perhaps it might do some good to "listen" to people who have actually done these things. Just my opinion.
National debt just shy of $10 trillion

Do the math.

For your information I used to be a big supporter of this failure in Iraq. Its not a failure because of our troops; its a failure of the folks in charge. Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Feith, Cheney, Bush, etc. They failed to listen to those who objected to the war, they failed to have detailed post-war planning and they failed to see that their stupid ideological dream cannot be a reality.
The Middle East is far more complicated than we realize. We should just get out before we lose more of our nation's finest or spend another $100 billion of money we don't have.
 

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Perhaps it might do some good to "listen" to people who have actually done these things. Just my opinion.

FYI, Gen. Sanchez joins the commander of the 101st Airborne, the commander of the Big Red One, the former head of CENTCOM and many other generals in criticizing the execution of the Iraq War.

"Phony soldiers" all?
 

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Mauserboy, good use of my quotes and then failure to substantiate them on your part with answers of your own experience. You didn't answer the questions I posed, you merely spouted off facts that are known to anyone who watches the nightly news. Other then "cut and run" what would be your doctrine for handling this counterinsurgency?

Dirty Thirty, there is no disputing that there are military officers who don't agree with the conduct of the war (just like other generals in other wars (Kosovo, Bosnia, Vietnam, etc)). What I said was that LtGen Sanchez had an axe to grind reference his comments, as he was vilified in the press for Abu Gharaib. Other generals came back from Iraq to numerous accolades. He came back to a corner desk in the Pentagon.
 

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Let the swift boating begin????
Dirty, are you saying that all but 4 of the men who served with kerry on the SAME river, in the SAME boats, and at the SAME time are LIARS? Thats a NEW LOW even for you!

To add insult to injury you snatch Limbaughs quote out ot context when you KNOW he was referring to a clown who claimed 1. he served in Iraq, 2, was an officer, 3. wounded in action. 4. recieved other medals, 5. was part of an elite unit, when in actuality he NEVER completed basic training and was released from the military as being unfit.

As for mouserboy, thats your usual rant and you aren't convincing anybody you are right about anything. with the exception of Dirty) It's so nice to quote your liberal professors from your little campus ivory tower. I have seen your lot over and over, starting with the "Fair Play for Cuba Committee." and progressing to all the other "fronts".
 

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Mauserboy, good use of my quotes and then failure to substantiate them on your part with answers of your own experience. You didn't answer the questions I posed, you merely spouted off facts that are known to anyone who watches the nightly news. Other then "cut and run" what would be your doctrine for handling this counterinsurgency?
So facts mean nothing to you? Petraeus has said a military solution alone will not solve this. We've had no political movement towards a peace and it won't happen anytime soon.

Yes you may win a battle here and there but you'll lose the war. The longer we stay over there the more of our soldiers will die, period. I do not want more of our soldiers dying for the adventuristic attitudes of a few elitist politicians in Washington.

As for mouserboy, thats your usual rant and you aren't convincing anybody you are right about anything.
I figured no one around here cares about facts, and you are one of them.

It's so nice to quote your liberal professors from your little campus ivory tower.
Look you little dweeb, I'm not the one that supports a President that has doubled the national debt, doubled the size of the department of education, increased medicare by billions and has bankrupted social security. I don't support faux conservatives. You do, so you are the liberal.
Here's a video of one your professors giving a lecture on Iraq.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9YuD9kYK9I

I have seen your lot over and over, starting with the "Fair Play for Cuba Committee." and progressing to all the other "fronts".
Oh yes all-mighty know it all. You know absolutely everything about everyone....:rolleyes: gimme a break.
 

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Well done Mauserboy, you at least have a grasp of the basics of Information Operations (IO). You managed to cobble quotes from two different people together, while at the same time avoiding answering any of the questions posed. As you know, from your vast counterinsurgency experience, the people are the center of gravity in a COIN fight, and that a COIN fight is primarily political. Armed with the obvious, now answer the question. How would you solve the Iraq Insurgency?
 

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Oh, I think we know how MB would "solve" the Iraqi insurgency. He'd cut and run, as his idol says we should.
 

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How would you solve the Iraq Insurgency?
Just come home. Why would I want to waste American lives for a policy I do not advocate?

Victory in this situation has yet to be defined. We're told now we might be there 20-30 years. Great another long-term, open-ended commitment. More lives and money wasted on an idealistic neo-conservative policy.

Oh, I think we know how MB would "solve" the Iraqi insurgency. He'd cut and run, as his idol says we should.
ORLY Clyde? The same way Reagan cut and ran from Lebanon?
 

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Fighting terrorism by invading and occupying Iraq is like "fighting infection" by performing surgery in an open sewer.
 

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Mouserkid, A typical rant again, Little dweeb? ( That's anyone who doesn't agree with you)
Know absolutely everything about anyone? No I don't, I'll leave that to you since you claim to be infallible. Let me know when you decide to take up residence in the Vatican.
I CAN claim to have been around a lot longer than you have and I have had the opportunity to witness your type over and over ad nauseum.
I would guess the great disappointment in your life is that you don't have a draft card to burn.
 
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