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I was listening to this morning on the news. These former Soldiers and Marines were doing their job. They showed up directly after a road side bomb and received incoming fire. They shot back! As they should! Some civilians were killed in the process... This happens in war!

Now to make the Iraqi Gov and the world happy, we are crucifying these guys. One is a local guy from Utah and all of them have come to Utah to turn themselves in. The feds want to prosecute them with the law that requires 30 years if you use a machine gun during a criminal act. These machine guns were issued by the federal government to protect State Dept officials. They also want to prosecute them in Washington DC, where the majority of the people are anti-war, anti-gun liberals.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081208/ap_on_go_ot/blackwater_prosecution
 

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I was listening to this morning on the news. These former Soldiers and Marines were doing their job. They showed up directly after a road side bomb and received incoming fire. They shot back! As they should! Some civilians were killed in the process... This happens in war!

Now to make the Iraqi Gov and the world happy, we are crucifying these guys. One is a local guy from Utah and all of them have come to Utah to turn themselves in. The feds want to prosecute them with the law that requires 30 years if you use a machine gun during a criminal act. These machine guns were issued by the federal government to protect State Dept officials. They also want to prosecute them in Washington DC, where the majority of the people are anti-war, anti-gun liberals.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081208/ap_on_go_ot/blackwater_prosecution

Help me out, do you know what evidence the USG has to indict them?

I take it you've been following this situation closely.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The Iraqi witnesses at the scene are saying the guys began shooting into the crowd without being provoked, while the blackwater guys say they were ambushed after responding to the car bomb. I have a hard time believing these guys were not provoked. They are all trained former military who had done multiple tours in Iraq. Since the incident the Iraqi Gov has been pushing the US Gov to do something about it.
 

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I was listening to this morning on the news. These former Soldiers and Marines were doing their job. They showed up directly after a road side bomb and received incoming fire. They shot back! As they should! Some civilians were killed in the process... This happens in war!
Usually it doesn't involve mercenaries.
 

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Usually it doesn't involve mercenaries.
You need to not even talk. This involves real warriors who were willing to step up and do the job that shirkers and complainers like you won't do. Every one of them served in the military in Iraq before signing up for this job. What have you done?

Come back when you've grown some nads and volunteered to do more than videotape yourself shooting your dad's guns like a total putz.
 

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At least 3 major stumbling blocks to prosecution including jurisdiction of the USA and of the military laws they are being prosecuted under - they worked for the State dept., plus limited immunity from their own testimony. I don't see how they can be convicted.
This is a show trial to try to prove to the Iraqis how very, very nice we are. Don't be surprised if there's an initial conviction on 1 or 2 counts, appeals then overturn and acquittal, just to stretch it out a few years.
 

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I take it you're not a Christian.

So by that I have to believe that you think all the USAAF bomber crewman in WWII weren't Christian either, afterall they were bombing civilians in both Germany and Japan, and bombing the crap out of them.

I think his point is this is a war. Stuff happens in war. When a motorized column of former Soldiers and Marines come underfire in a war zone, they will fire back. If the civilians in the area are willing to let "insurgents" roam freely and set up ambushes, then they can reap what they sew when the SHTF.

I don't think a lot of tears were shed for the residents of Hamburg or Tokyo in '44-'45....I shed none for the Iraqi's either. But we have America hating liberal lawyers who are more than willing to side with the enemy....
 

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So by that I have to believe that you think all the USAAF bomber crewman in WWII weren't Christian either, afterall they were bombing civilians in both Germany and Japan, and bombing the crap out of them.

I think his point is this is a war. Stuff happens in war. When a motorized column of former Soldiers and Marines come underfire in a war zone, they will fire back. If the civilians in the area are willing to let "insurgents" roam freely and set up ambushes, then they can reap what they sew when the SHTF.

I don't think a lot of tears were shed for the residents of Hamburg or Tokyo in '44-'45....I shed none for the Iraqi's either. But we have America hating liberal lawyers who are more than willing to side with the enemy....
I'm sorry, I can't condone the wanton killing of innocent civilians.

Using your logic we should just just nuke the middle-east and be done with it.
 

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I'm sorry, I can't condone the wanton killing of innocent civilians.

Using your logic we should just just nuke the middle-east and be done with it.
Therefore, I assume you disagree with the bombing campaigns against civilian infrastructure in WWII?

Yes, using my logic, I would nuke the middle east and be done with it...Nuke Their Ass, and Take Their Gas!

Well, ok, maybe I am not quite that fascist, but close. For instance IMHO, rules of engagement should state that say a base takes incoming mortar fire from xyz neighborhood. Rather than sending out a patrol to try and find the mortar team who has for sure blended back into the "civilian" population...you simply call in a fire mission, or air support and obliterate xyz neighborhood. After while, the "civilians" can either figure out that it is bad to side with the insurgents, or there are no "civilians" left...either way, we win.

I don't believe in this fallacy of winning hearts and minds, I believe in destroying hearts and minds. That is how we won WWII, and that is why we haven't really decisively won another since...I mean a lasting, long term peace....
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Well, ok, maybe I am not quite that fascist, but close. For instance IMHO, rules of engagement should state that say a base takes incoming mortar fire from xyz neighborhood. Rather than sending out a patrol to try and find the mortar team who has for sure blended back into the "civilian" population...you simply call in a fire mission, or air support and obliterate xyz neighborhood. After while, the "civilians" can either figure out that it is bad to side with the insurgents, or there are no "civilians" left...either way, we win.

I don't believe in this fallacy of winning hearts and minds, I believe in destroying hearts and minds. That is how we won WWII, and that is why we haven't really decisively won another since...I mean a lasting, long term peace....
++++++1
 

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Couldn't answer the question. So are you a Pagan?

as if answering any question from you has a purpose.

here is a clue for you. soldiers come from civilians. get it? when you put out a fire you spray your ext. at the base of the fire, not the top.

i know you hate this country and everyone in it man. but some of us put america first. not islam.
 

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You need to not even talk. This involves real warriors who were willing to step up and do the job that shirkers and complainers like you won't do. Every one of them served in the military in Iraq before signing up for this job. What have you done?
Sure about that? Think they all served in Iraq prior to joining Blackwater?

They're mercenaries, they will for a paycheck, you don't see something morally wrong with that?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
MB: Think they all served in Iraq prior to joining Blackwater?

Me: All of these men in this case did. This is what we are talking about, not Blackwater in general.



MB: They're mercenaries, they will for a paycheck, you don't see something morally wrong with that?

Me: Do you know these men? The Gunny knows the one from Utah, he worked with him when he was a prior service recruiter trying to get him back in the reserves. Good Marine, great record. What evidence do you have to speak differently of them?
 

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as if answering any question from you has a purpose.

here is a clue for you. soldiers come from civilians. get it? when you put out a fire you spray your ext. at the base of the fire, not the top.

i know you hate this country and everyone in it man. but some of us put america first. not islam.

I love this country, unlike you who proudly displays the flag of a nation with hated the USA. I bet you'd fly the swastika if you could think you'd get away with it.


Friggen Confederats, I guess no one told you guys you lost the war.

Try it again and see how fast you southern boys get slapped down this time.

;->
 

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I love this country, unlike you who proudly displays the flag of a nation with hated the USA. I bet you'd fly the swastika if you could think you'd get away with it.


Friggen Confederats, I guess no one told you guys you lost the war.

Try it again and see how fast you southern boys get slapped down this time.

;->

Regardless of this, I am curious how you regard the bombing campaigns in Germany and Japan....sound war fighting tactics, or wanton destruction of innocents?

If you were LeMay or Roosevelt would you have ordered them?
 
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