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Will start with this one..., not here yet, but here are the seller's photos. It has a 22" blade and a 'Rooster" on the top of the pommel. I think it may have started out as a short sword, but modified to... ?

Will post in a bit on a dress bayonet.

Thanks for looking!
- Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
No. 2 - Sg98 Style Dress Bayonet

Well, the grips, etc. resemble the Sg98 bayonet. Blade..., well not so much. Blade is ~12"s and strange markings on grips of "UF" and "UP". No. "39" stamped on cast pommel and blade tang and penciled on insides of wood grips.

Any thoughts?
 

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Mike, I had one almost identical to the brass handled jobbie, but traded it years ago for a F/S knife. It had a very old tag 'French trench dagger Great War' taped to the grip but I have no idea if that was accurate (though it looked the part).
 

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Hi Stede -

I'll bet you're right. The 'Rooster' or cockerel is most definitely French. The number on the quillon may be a unit? Do you recall if yours had a similar marking? Perhaps a much older short sword adopted for the times?

Best regards!
- Mike
 

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Hi,

Your Sg98 dress bayonet looks typical of a private purchase "walking out" piece. Here are a few similar unmarked examples, also with false press studs. Not sure about the grips, the UF letters look like they could be someone's initials punched in with single letters, but the UP? It looks more like a symbol than 2 separate letters, if that makes sense.

02.jpg
 

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Will start with this one..., not here yet, but here are the seller's photos. It has a 22" blade and a 'Rooster" on the top of the pommel. I think it may have started out as a short sword, but modified to... ?

- Mike
Mike,

I'm pretty sure this started out as the French prototype for our U.S. M.1840 NCO sword familliar to Civil War collectors. ( The grip and blade - I don't think the crossguard belongs to the rest of it. ) The original blade length would've been approx. 30" long and uniformly as wide as that portion remaining at the top, about 1" or so. The rooster or "Gallic coq" was the French National symbol during the so-called "July Monarchy" of the ELECTED King Louis-Phillipe, 1830 - 48. The actual style of smallsword for infantry and artillery "foot officers" ( NOT NCO's in France ) is earlier, 1816. Prior to the Franco-Prussian War of 1870 the U. S. copied French fashion for uniforms, etc. so we adapted this style of sword as well, which was in use from the Mexican through the Spanish-American Wars. This one would've been in French service until the "regime change" brought on by the Revolution of 1848 made the rooster obsolete, replaced by the Napoleonic eagle of Napoleon III. Anytime after that it would've been viewed as "surplus" and liable to being modified for private use like this.
 

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Mike, I don't recall a marking like that so there probably wasn't one as it would be fairly obvious. I do remember thinking at the time it was probably made from a sword so we seem to have a consensus there ;).
 

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Tim, Attie - Thank you very much! Certainly cleared up that one. One quick question..., Does your reference material give a range of time when these were used? WW1, Weimar, Third Reich? I wonder if the initials may have been a movie supply house?

Stede, James - I believe you pretty much nailed down the first item also. There was another photo showing a rectangular slot in the bottom of the pommel where a guard would have entered. What a storied history that piece has had.

Thanks Guys!
- Mike
 

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Tim, Attie - Thank you very much! Certainly cleared up that one. One quick question..., Does your reference material give a range of time when these were used? WW1, Weimar, Third Reich? I wonder if the initials may have been a movie supply house?...
Hi Mike,

I would think it dates to the early 1900's. The wood gripped Sg98 style dress bayonets weren't made much after WWI (and probably not much during the war). KS98 dress bayonets with black checkered grips started to become the common style and lasted though WWII. I like your idea of a property stamp for the letters.
 
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