Gunboards Forums banner
1 - 13 of 13 Posts

· Banned
Joined
·
1,738 Posts
For bedding the No.4 first download the following manuals:

The Canadian No.4 manual that I can’t have in my manual sticky because of copyright laws which is bovine scat,:mad: the manual can be downloaded from this Italian website.;)

http://www.euroarms.net/EFD/manuali/No4Mk1Inst.pdf

http://www.euroarms.net/EFD/manuali/No4Mk1Arm.pdf

The No.5 précis (Mini-Manual) its only one number off :eek:
Study the bedding drawing for the receiver area

http://home.comcast.net/~ehorton/No.5_precis.pdf

The Canadian Marksman, it has good bedding info and reference material.

http://home.comcast.net/~ehorton/Marksman.pdf

If you contact Edwardo Hortonalini :rolleyes: he has all the 2002 Canadian No.4 manuals which Euroarms does not have.











And study the bedding section of this 1960 RAF Precis on the No.4 attached below.

Also your stock may have dried out and need a drink of pure raw linseed oil, photos from Maj. Reynolds book.


The rear draws area is very important and must fit snugly, the forward draws lug area should push the rear of the fore stock into contact with the receiver socket, (see last photo)
 

· Banned
Joined
·
1,738 Posts
Bedding part 2

Bedding rules
  • You will not go blind if you play with your fore stock.
  • The majority of bedding problems are due to wood shrinkage or wood compression.
After you give you stock a good soaking in Pure Raw Linseed oil (Its non-toxic and wont make your wee wee fall off like Boiled Linseed oil will) you will need to check the king screw bushing or forward trigger guard screw bushing for adjustment.

Tightened the king screw (very snugly), mark the trigger guard with a pencil parallel to the screw slot as a reference mark.



Remove the trigger guard and the bushing, re-install the trigger guard (leave out the bushing) and tighten the king screw as you did before. Now check to see if the screw tightens past your reference mark. If it does move past your pencil mark, the bushing is too long, it should be approximately .010 (ten thousandths) shorter to allow for slight “wood crush”. Again mark the trigger guard as you did the first time, and this will be your STOP point.



Chuck the bushing in a drill and with a fine file held flat, slowly remove metal and repeatedly install the bushing and tightening the king screw until the screw slot matches your last reference mark. Remove any rough or sharp edges and lightly, repeat lightly sand with crocus cloth sand paper on a FLAT surface and smooth up the filed end. A 1/8th thick, one foot square piece of glass makes a great sanding or lapping surface.



Shimming the draws.

The original shimming material used to shim the forward area of the draws was thin Aborite (Formica) shims, any thin very hard material can be used for shimming material, beer cans, copper or brass sheets from a hobby shop and even super glue and different thicknesses of paper. (The 1931 Instructions for Armourers makes mention of brown paper and varnish)

The object is to push the stock to the rear and to make even contact with the receiver socket.

Add shims at the white arrows and make sure the stock contacts evenly at the red arrows.



The contact areas.






Photo below, top before shimming and bedding work, 5 shots 50 yards.
After shimming and bedding work, 10 shots 50 yards (Change of underwear may be required)

 

· Banned
Joined
·
1,738 Posts
Ed, I see you dug up some of that coffee can money you have buried in the backyard and bought Major Reynold's book. I remember awhile back I alerted you about a copy on ebay and you said you were too cheap to pursue it, you must have got a sweet deal or stole that one.

Yes I’m cheap, I got a sweet deal by stealing it and a few other items!;)
 

· Banned
Joined
·
1,738 Posts
Whiterider

Think of skinny dipping in a cool river on a hot day (without crocs) below is a wallpaper wetting tray and some 25/75 BLO/Turpentine, let it soak overnight. ;)

(Soaking in 25/75 BLO/Turpentine is my second choice if raw linseed is not available, you are looking for a deep penetrating "skin moisturizer")


 

· Banned
Joined
·
1,738 Posts
The No.1 and No.4 Enfield have only one bedding screw and the rear draws area acts as the “second missing screw”, if the wood of the fore stock shrinks you loose up pressure at the fore end tip. The forward trigger guard screws is the pivot point or fulcrum point of the fore stock and it acts like a kids Teeter Totter.





Below is a composite photo of an Australian SMLE and the bedding diagram from the Canadian Marksman on bedding the No.4 for competition. Both have shims added to prevent the rear of the fore stock from moving upward (loose up pressure at fore end tip)



Wood shrinkage is your enemy and these added shims are your best friend, the Armourer would replace a shrunken fore stock, fore stocks don’t grow on trees :) so we add shims to compensate for shrinkage.
 

· Banned
Joined
·
1,738 Posts
“My fiancé is a joiner by trade and she has even adopted a rifle or two of mine”

Tell your fiancé its pay back time and to study the photo below! ;)

 

· Banned
Joined
·
1,738 Posts
The copper blocks you see in the photo are of an Australian Lithgow SMLE and the copper blocks were standard and installed on Australian Coachwood fore stocks.

What is more important are the added shims in both photos at the rear of the draws area that prevents upward movement, if the rear of the fore stock moves upward, up pressure at the fore end tip is lost.

NOTE: Any No.4 Enfield delivered to Holland and Holland for conversion to the No.4 (T) sniper rifle was sent back to their owning organization if the rifle did not have the required 2 to 7 pounds of up pressure at the fore end tip.

Also shimming the draws area does not have to be limited to the forward draws area, if you have .050 total shrinkage .025 shims could be added to both ends of the draws.

Extremely thin plywood can be obtained at hobby shops that deal with RC model aircraft, 1/64, 1/32 etc also brass sheets from .005 and upward can be had.

The Indians used rubber at the very rear of the fore stock/draws area to tighten the fore stock (Contact area at rear of fore stock and receiver socket)

Center bedding was tried on the No.4 (T) but no improvement in accuracy over stock military bedding was noted.

A standard Remington 700 has 3 to 9 pounds of up pressure at the fore end tip to ensure accuracy on their production rifles. Note, up pressure on both these rifles is very important and the barrels were never designed to be free floated.

The attached photos below are from E.G.B. Reynolds “The Lee Enfield Rifle”.
 

· Banned
Joined
·
1,738 Posts
Ed, i have to wait till tuesday to get a chance to start the shimming process, better halfs father has a workshop where he makes model trains, jetboats etc.....plenty of tools and rather a clever man as well,

i had a thought of putting it all back together since i getting the RLO into the wood and seeing what difference that alone has made, i am curious, i will even see if i can get a proper king screw washer by then as well. i will post a range report, depends mind you on work and weather!

i will have an extra buttered toast with marmite for whiterider prior to the range :)

Ed, your 25 yard rectangle target, point of aim is at very bottom of the rectangle?

cheers

tertle

Tyler

During WWII and after the war one of the biggest problems was “stocking up” caused by improperly seasoned or dried fore ends. In 1946 it was reported that 30% of all fore ends were being thrown away at the British factories due to the poor quality of the wood.

At one time your Enfield fore stock was bedded properly and both the forward lug areas of the draws were touching evenly. Now the wood has shrunk to the point your hand guard rivets are rubbing the “TOP” of the barrel, which is the start of “down pressure” when actually the fore end tip should be pushing upward and have 2 to 7 pounds of up pressure.

The fore stock wood dried up and shrunk and this allowed the very rear of the stock to move upward, when the rear of the fore stock moves upward the fore end tip moves downward. This is why your hand guard rivets are rubbing the barrel at the front of the stock and placing cork in the barrel channel would be adding insult to injury to the problem.



“Should I trim the area ever so lightly with a chisel to even up the draws?”

NO, first check and find out why one side of the forward draws lug area is getting hammered harder than the other side, they were both evenly touching at one time.

“Will wood glue work for holding the brass shims in place? Or should something stronger be used?”

The original shimming material used was very thin Aborite (Formica) and I think they were originally held in place with varnish. I made Formica shims and super glued them in place after fitting each shim one at a time. The thickness of these shims controls the centering of the barrel in the fore end barrel channel (Standard military bedding). The Australian copper blocks are screwed in place and were used on their Coach wood stocks. Any thin hard material can be used for shimming, beer cans, brass sheets and birch plywood from hobby stores.

“Will adding a cork sheet to the mid fore-end and tip improve things?”

NO, when the fore end draws area is adjusted properly it is wedged tightly between the recoil lugs and the receiver socket, and thus pushing up at the fore end tip.

“My brass pin ends from my hand guards are lightly touching the barrel, how much can I grind away from the pins before they come out? Should I shim the area between the hand guards and the fore-stock instead?”

You should not grind the hand guard rivets, with the proper up pressure at the fore end tip the rivets should not be rubbing, BUT it may also require that the hand guards be shimmed and raised to prevent the rubbing. (Who knows what the wood shrinkage has done and you must compensate for it or replace the offending wood)

Go back and download all the manuals from my sticky at the top of the page and the Canadian No.4 manual from Euroarms web site and then study the bedding material. NOTE: The No.5 drawing shows .020 clearance between the receiver and the fore end, if the wood is touching the receiver it could be pushing it “off center” and causing one of your problems. Post some photos of your fore end, it’s hard to play Doctor if you can’t see the patient.
 

· Banned
Joined
·
1,738 Posts
Ed, i have to wait till tuesday to get a chance to start the shimming process, better halfs father has a workshop where he makes model trains, jetboats etc.....plenty of tools and rather a clever man as well,

i had a thought of putting it all back together since i getting the RLO into the wood and seeing what difference that alone has made, i am curious, i will even see if i can get a proper king screw washer by then as well. i will post a range report, depends mind you on work and weather!

i will have an extra buttered toast with marmite for whiterider prior to the range :)

Ed, your 25 yard rectangle target, point of aim is at very bottom of the rectangle?

cheers

tertle
Both 25 yard sight in targets are for a 6:00 hold or the very bottom of circle or rectangle.

If you are going for a center hold you well need other targets, see photo below. (And your older than dirt, photo from 1940 Parker Hale Catalog):)
 

· Banned
Joined
·
1,738 Posts
DO NOT use Gorilla glue, it expands and will force the crack open even wider (don’t ask me how I know this)

Use “Super Glue” to repair your stock, super glue is used today to build flying balsa wood models and actually “welds” the wood together. The super glue seeps into the surrounding area of the wood cell structure and bonds just like a metal weld. Wood glues, contact cement and Gorilla Glue only adhere or bond to the surface area. Clean the area to be super glued with acetone to remove as much dirt and oil finish products as possible, I dip a Q-Tip in acetone and saturate the area and when the Q-Tip stays clean and white you are read for gluing. The cleaning with acetone will remove any oil from the wood pores and allow the super glue to penetrate deeper and bond better to the wood.
On your Savage I would start by marking and remove the king screw bushing or forward trigger guard bushing, it is very likely too long and a big part of your bedding problem.

Please look at your photos below, the receiver appears to be touching in the top of the photo (No.1) indicated by the shiny wood and also at No.2 & 3. If the stock is touching the right side of the receiver at No.3 this is a barrel centering problem.



The correct contact areas for bedding are the gray areas below for standard military bedding. The added red areas are where your rifle is contacting. Your receiver is dropping down too far in the rear and the rear draws area is only touching at high center and lower right (another barrel centering problem)





Super glue your cracks and shorten your trigger guard bushing and then recheck your bedding contact points.
 

· Banned
Joined
·
1,738 Posts
“I shaved and sanded the very rear of the fore stock on the right side to remove the high areas and even things out. Is doing this the ONLY way to properly center a barrel?”

I want you to slow down and think for a moment, you are dealing with wood shrinkage and you removed even more wood. You want to ADD to the low areas and NOT remove any from the high areas for starters.

Standard military shimming is done at the forward part of the draws and this does two things, it tightens the draws area and also centers the barrel. And also remember once you remove wood you can’t put it back, play it safe and add to the low spots.

The very rear of the fore stock below the reinforcement strap should be touching the receiver socket evenly and it should take or absorb the recoil forces. Your stock shrank and you had an air gap between the stock and receiver socket and the lug area of the draws then took all the recoil pounding.

In hobby stores that carry super glue you will see three viscosities or three thicknesses of super glue, I use the thin and medium for gluing or bonding wood, the thick is for gap filling.
 

· Banned
Joined
·
1,738 Posts
The only thing that will affect the super glue is acetone and that is used to remove it. On stocks or areas that require thin shims I use the brown paper from grocery bags and super glue them in place. This idea came from the 1931 Instructions for Armourers and varnish and brown paper were used back then to tighten the stock up.

The Canadian Marksman was written around 1964 and the photo below is from the 1984 Canadian Maintenance Manual under competition bedding. The barrel centering method by removing wood from the very end of the fore stock was discontinued and wooden dowel pins were then used to center the receiver.

(NOTE: Thin wood shims can be used along the sides of the receiver as a “no drill” centering method.) ;)



I prefer the “do no harm” approach when working on the bedding and try to keep every thing as close to original as possible. Super glue shims can be removed if things go wrong but you can’t put wood back once it is removed.

Super glue shims can be sanded, filed and scraped with a razor blade knife and be adjusted and fitted, and if need be can be totally removed. The super glue shims can be added to both ends of the draws to tighten up the fore stock bedding and center the barrel

Below are brown paper shims that have been scraped to fit the lug area of the draws. Also bass wood shims (non-standard bedding) have been added between the receiver and fore stock, after bedding and shooting the upper shims will prevent further upward movement as the stock settles in. This prevents the loss of up pressure at the fore end tip and keeps the bedding stable for constant shot placement or accuracy.




Below the shiny areas are contact points where the fore stock is touching the receiver socket, the left side needs a brown paper shim added to even the contact area. The area below does not need to be touching 100% but contact on both sides should be equal



Below are photos from my wood deck and show the board gaps and wood shrinkage, if your wood is not protected and in the case of your stock kept well oiled it will continue dry out and shrink.

 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top