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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi team

Wondering if anyone can tell me how hard it is to do the bedding for a Mk4 No1*?

i have a rifle that i cant seem to get to shoot consistantly, some days it will put a vertical line dam near from bulls to top of target (20 cm) other days it tends to do its own thing on the right hand side of the target?

i have gone to the extent of learning to reload my own ammo and have enlisted the aid of some very knowledgable men, i have tried to isolate all other factors including operator error! and am just wondering if this might help.

so how hard would it be and how would i go about doing it?

or are there other things i should look at?

cheers

tertle
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Bedding

Cheers for that guys, looks as if i have a bit of reading to do, thanks for the site Britisharmy i will try and get my head around it all and see what i can do, its got to help.


Caerlonie, nice rifle, today wasnt the greatest day spend down at the range, well the weather wasnt, but i was at the range so that was the main thing :) hopefully our weather will improve!!!

I will keep an eye out for a post by Mr Horton failing that i will search old posts if able too, i wonder if they have a bedding for dummies book!

cheers

tertle
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for that will see where i can get a copy from, from what i can tell it could be a promising exercise and a great learning curve

tertle
 

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Bedding the No.4

Tertle.

I guess the best advice is to go carefully....its hard to put wood back after you've scraped it out.... :)

I'd start by thoroughly reading up on how the Nol 4 was bedded as it came from the factory. Check then that the King screw is tight. (the big one in front of the magazine) Look for splits in the forend anywhere...look at the BACK of the forend where it touches the action for a 'gap'...shouldnt be one.

Then check how much pressure it takes to 'lift' the barrel away from the bedding at the muzzle......the 'issue' condition I think should be about 5 pounds or so. If the barrel is 'loose' and rattles around in this test you've probably found your problem. Then dissemble the rifle and see if it looks about the same and touching in the same places as in the 'original' bedding set up. . Look for rubbing marks on the i nside of the forend that would suggest that the barrel is touching in places that it is not designed to.

Then look at the rear or 'draws' area of the forend...looking for splits, broken wood..evidence of equal bearing of the 'recoil lugs'.

Now if it all checks out so far...I'd add some shims to the 'draws' area, hard cardboard or slices of a credit card type material to about .025 inch. (puts more pressure on the fore end bedding) I havent got a picture for you of this but they have been posted by Mr. Horton.

When you assemble it again have a look at the length of the 'collar' around the king screw that screw in front of the magazine...it should be JUST below the level of the wood, or EVEN with the wood, if it sticks out that could indicate your problem and it needs to be shortened.

Tighten up the King screw (this is most important and should be checked regularly) and TEST SHOOT. Patience is required...and when you do test fire include some rapid fire and look for vertical groups. Good luck. It can be a long process..... :) ...especially if you have a fore-end that has been 'attacked' by someone trying to do what you are trying to do..... :) Please pardon my cynicism....Im just old...
 

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For bedding the No.4 first download the following manuals:

The Canadian No.4 manual that I can’t have in my manual sticky because of copyright laws which is bovine scat,:mad: the manual can be downloaded from this Italian website.;)

http://www.euroarms.net/EFD/manuali/No4Mk1Inst.pdf

http://www.euroarms.net/EFD/manuali/No4Mk1Arm.pdf

The No.5 précis (Mini-Manual) its only one number off :eek:
Study the bedding drawing for the receiver area

http://home.comcast.net/~ehorton/No.5_precis.pdf

The Canadian Marksman, it has good bedding info and reference material.

http://home.comcast.net/~ehorton/Marksman.pdf

If you contact Edwardo Hortonalini :rolleyes: he has all the 2002 Canadian No.4 manuals which Euroarms does not have.











And study the bedding section of this 1960 RAF Precis on the No.4 attached below.

Also your stock may have dried out and need a drink of pure raw linseed oil, photos from Maj. Reynolds book.


The rear draws area is very important and must fit snugly, the forward draws lug area should push the rear of the fore stock into contact with the receiver socket, (see last photo)
 

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Bedding part 2

Bedding rules
  • You will not go blind if you play with your fore stock.
  • The majority of bedding problems are due to wood shrinkage or wood compression.
After you give you stock a good soaking in Pure Raw Linseed oil (Its non-toxic and wont make your wee wee fall off like Boiled Linseed oil will) you will need to check the king screw bushing or forward trigger guard screw bushing for adjustment.

Tightened the king screw (very snugly), mark the trigger guard with a pencil parallel to the screw slot as a reference mark.



Remove the trigger guard and the bushing, re-install the trigger guard (leave out the bushing) and tighten the king screw as you did before. Now check to see if the screw tightens past your reference mark. If it does move past your pencil mark, the bushing is too long, it should be approximately .010 (ten thousandths) shorter to allow for slight “wood crush”. Again mark the trigger guard as you did the first time, and this will be your STOP point.



Chuck the bushing in a drill and with a fine file held flat, slowly remove metal and repeatedly install the bushing and tightening the king screw until the screw slot matches your last reference mark. Remove any rough or sharp edges and lightly, repeat lightly sand with crocus cloth sand paper on a FLAT surface and smooth up the filed end. A 1/8th thick, one foot square piece of glass makes a great sanding or lapping surface.



Shimming the draws.

The original shimming material used to shim the forward area of the draws was thin Aborite (Formica) shims, any thin very hard material can be used for shimming material, beer cans, copper or brass sheets from a hobby shop and even super glue and different thicknesses of paper. (The 1931 Instructions for Armourers makes mention of brown paper and varnish)

The object is to push the stock to the rear and to make even contact with the receiver socket.

Add shims at the white arrows and make sure the stock contacts evenly at the red arrows.



The contact areas.






Photo below, top before shimming and bedding work, 5 shots 50 yards.
After shimming and bedding work, 10 shots 50 yards (Change of underwear may be required)

 

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Ed, I see you dug up some of that coffee can money you have buried in the backyard and bought Major Reynold's book. I remember awhile back I alerted you about a copy on ebay and you said you were too cheap to pursue it, you must have got a sweet deal or stole that one.

Yes I’m cheap, I got a sweet deal by stealing it and a few other items!;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Cheers

Hi team

to Ed and all the rest of the team, thanks a lot for all the info, i have been away babysitting for a few days looking after nieces and nephews, ( 10,8 & 6) who might i add can name all the working parts on a rifle and they come down to the range too!

i will read properly all the information that you guys have given and give it a go, should be an interesting project :)

Cheers again


tertle
 

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Tertle, If your Savage came out of Turkey, as so many in the US have, the linseed oil treatment is a crucial first step. Mine went from a 'rattler' to tight as a drum after several BLO applications. Another tip that's worked very well for me is to polish the full bent on the c/p for a more consistant trigger pull.

Regards, Brad

PS Caerlonie, I can duplicate your pic with a '43 Savage No.4 and a Savage M. 745. The 745 has taken countless dove and fired thousands of rounds in the forty odd years I've had it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Whiterider, After reading your comment regarding the gap at the point where the fore-end and the action (pictures below, sorry poor quality) and the ability to move the barrel at the muzzle leads me to believe that we have possibly found potential reasons for the rifles failure to group.

Barrel movement I will assess again after giving the woodwork a good soaking, I will start looking for a suitable material for the shimming and do some further reading on the subject.

The king screw looks fine, which brings me onto my next point,

Mr Horton’s Pure linseed oil (the kind that wont make my wee wee fall off!), I am assuming that I soak the inside wood of the fore stock, front hand guard and rear hand guard till no more will be absorbed, then put aside and let it “rest” repeat the process until such a time no more oil is absorbed and reassemble

Then I move onto the barrel movement should it still be a problem. However I am going to have to look at shimming at the forward areas of the draws as there is a gap between the woodwork and the action. I folded a piece of printer paper over twice and was able to slide it in between the gap in some places it allowed only a single double fold.

I am a little reticent to remove woodwork but if needs dictate I will, I assume before going to this stage I should reassemble the rifle and see if any of these actions have remedied the problem.

Only question I have at this stage is the expansion of the wood, will it expand to a point where parts of the wood now touch the barrel where it shouldn’t? If so how will I tell, other that the rounds head of in directions again?

The movement in the barrel at the muzzle is odd as my LB has NO play but has an ok grouping, admittedly extremely low, a new foresight is being arranged to improve this!

Brad i will look at your suggestion as well but the general gist is that a good soaking in PLO might just be a great wee start

Cheers

Tertle
 

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Yes maybe

If you make the shim for the rear of the forend (when you take it off the rifle just place the rear of it on the shim material, trace around and there's your shim) You already have some idea how thick it nees to be from your notepaper experiments.

I think if you do that plus the shimming above the draws (behind where the recoil lugs bear and on TOP of the wood, to go between the wood and the metal of the action) you will see an improvement.

After you've rubbed a little linseed oil outside and inside the forend and at the same time making note of any 'rub' marks caused by barrel contact...bolt her up and test shoot....If that seems to fix the problem....leave alone and be happy.....but let us know how it shoots...if no good we'll move on from there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Cheers

whiterider

Thanks for the reply

Tomorrow is operation soak-day, the rifle has a slight sheen to the woodwork, not that I would call it a lacquer but it may stop the exterior woodwork soaking up the PLO, so it just might be a longer process.

I have tried several times to post and add a picture so I am hoping that this time it might work. Hopefully the pics will show the gap a bit better.

I too am hopeful of the results, I will look around for a picture of an old target if I can and compare them next to a post PLO shot, should be interesting.

no the pics wont load...try again tomorrow
 

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yeah just a....

quick word about the 'test shooting'. Dont expect to put it back together and then shoot a good group straight away...(some will, but they are rare.) Most lee enfields take anything from 5 to 10 rounds through them to 'settle' into the bedding...particularly if its not 'fiberglass' bedding.

Anyways fire these 'fouling' or 'settling' shots...(good chance for some offhand practice) check again the tightness of the King screw then go shoot groups for record.

Send us a pic of your targets if you can.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
work in progress

Quick question time

Soaking the woodwork, I assume just keep pouring in the RLO till she can’t take it anymore?

Does this liberal amount of RLO include the areas needing shimming? Will this not in effect swell and create a natural shimming effect or should I still shim the areas out as indicated?

Was there meant to be a washer under the king screw, as there wasn’t! by reckoning there should have been a collar and a washer??

I’ve noticed a small hairline crack at the rear of the fore end below the tie plate can I reinforce this area?

Also another interesting point was that in the woodwork I noticed a rebate chiselled into forewood where the lower band holds the wood together is this for centre bedding? As further to the receiver group looks as if there is a built up area that may need work?

yet again i am having problems uploading pictures so i will try again later, need to spens a couple of hours painting a fence!
 

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should be a collar.....

but no washer in the original set up. Yes, sounds like your fore-end has been modified at some stage.

So I guess its probably been 'scooped out' in other areas....(leaving the center bearing and hopefully the bearing under the chamber)

Some pics of the inside of the forend would be good...the split???? mayb be a symptom of excessive clearance at the draws/recoil lug areas.

I think to soak the thing thoroughly in linseed oil would take ages. I believe at the factory they were literally suspended in vats of very warm or boiling linseed oil.

I'd be inclined to hand rub in a little on the outside and inside of the forend then get on with the important work.

Send us pics....get help if you need to...... :)
 
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