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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, how many different types of bayonet guts are there? I don't make it a habit of taking them apart unless they're loose. The piece on top came out of a Tokyo, the one on the bottom came out of Nagoya (and a Toyoda I have that is the same as the Nagoya). These are both from LBS-2 scabbards. I know late war scabbards (LBS-5) have at least one different type than the above, but I didn't snap a pic. of my one loose example.

I know the LBS-2 with the shorter clasp have something else down in there, like a secondary clasp, but I can't quite make out what it looks like or how it's attached. The one with the longer clasp doesn't have any other clasps that I can tell.

Anybody have any other pics. of internals that are different???
 

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I've only taken a couple or four apart; innards were like the two you show. Sample too small to have much meaning, there may be more!
 

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Do any of the innards have inspection marks?

Do most T-30 scabbards have external inspection marks? I recently examined my little collection with a magnifying glass for marks that might indicate which mnufacturer made them.

I found many steel scabbards apparently without inspection marks externally.

Those I found and the bayonet manufacturer it is with:

Mukden; one "he", one unmarked.

Tokyo/Kokura; two unmarked

TALW; one "ko", four unmarked( one wire wrapped wood ).

Diamond Nagoya; two unmarked

Hikari Seiki; one "ko", four unmarked

Matsushita Denki; six unmarked

Star K Nagoya; one "na", one I cant make out( looks like a telegraph pole with three lines hanging down on the left and a line above), two unmarked.

Jinsen; one "jin"(wooden), one "ko", one looks like reversed "se".

Triangle Nagoya; one "ko".

Nagoya; two unmarked.

Should one try to match scabbards to bayonets by maker and LB type, or leave as purchased? ( Looks like a long winter coming ).

jim
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Do any of the innards have inspection marks?

Do most T-30 scabbards have external inspection marks? I recently examined my little collection with a magnifying glass for marks that might indicate which mnufacturer made them.
Well, I have a few examples of marks on the "throat" (that's what I call it anyway, the portion where the cross guard meets with the scabbard when inserted), Tokyo and Kokura. That is one of the "innards" - but I haven't seen any markings on the portions that extend down into the scabbard.

I have found inspection marks on frog bands. First one is from a Nagoya (I've got two with this mark), second one is from an early Tokyo. These are more recent discoveries for me, so now I've gotta go back and have a closer look at everything. My guess is that these inspection marks aren't all that uncommon (?). The second one is a stylized form of (NE). (If the photo was rotated 90 degrees to the left, the orientation would be correct for the reading.) But this goes off on another track.....
 

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Won't you have to "debraze" the scabbard to get to the lower innards? My bright blade, hooked quillion example has a visible braze line running the length of the small bend. The finish on my straight, blued example is too nice too check for signs of brazing. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Yes, I've seen this too brazing too. So, best I am guessing on a limited number of samples and a fair amount of ignorance ( :eek: ) is that the earlier scabbards perhaps had the shorter piece with something further down inside as a secondary clasp and then the metal was rolled over and brazed to complete the construction. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, please! I still don't know how this mechanism works, but I know there is something down there - one bayonet I received had something rattling around inside, I thought maybe a rock or screw or something, whatever it was, it didn't interfere with the bayonet going in and out, but I couldn't get the "thing" to come out! Couldn't get past the clasp. Well, curiosity got the best of me so I carefully removed the frog band and then removed the clasp and lo and behold - not one, but TWO pieces of sheet metal came out, obvious shape and mirror images of one another. They had been broken off of wherever they were mounted.

Later scabbards (still talking LBS-2s here....) I'm guessing eliminated those pieces and opted for the longer clasp for the extra holding. I recently acquired a scabbard in rather beat-up condition for a project I'm making. I felt a bit bad about doing it, but the thing was essentially useless for holding a bayonet because of damage so I cut it in half lengthwise after stripping it down (had the long clasp) - and there is no other secondary mechanism inside. I also couldn't find any sign of brazing or welding or a seam, inside or out (doesn't mean they're not there though!), so I have no idea how these were made. Could they have been molded??

At any rate, my plan is to try to remove as much of the damage as possible from the halves, then reassemble with the clasp and frog band, and mount to a nice plaque as a cut-away view of a bayonet inside its scabbard, but I digress as I often do..... :eek:

I don't have an earlier scabbard so damaged that it isn't usable. Maybe one of these days I'll find a really bashed up one and dissect it too. Still feel bad about doing that though.
 

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Do most T-30 scabbards have external inspection marks?

Should one try to match scabbards to bayonets by maker and LB type, or leave as purchased? ( Looks like a long winter coming ).

jim
Jim,

It'd be a stretch to say most scabbards have inspection marks, but very many do. You'll find the throat piece and frog strap band are often marked with various inspection marks, as you've seen. One also finds marks on the very bottom of ball tip scabbards, though naturally they are often obscured due to wear. Few folks think to check such places....fewer still would even notice them. Keep your eyes open and you'll be surprised what you see. I'd leave your scabbards alone till you know better.

Remember, everyone looks,few people see!

Vic,

Thank you for the kind words, but I'm just a guy with a good eye who DOES look at the stuff I collect. To say I'm "the most knowledgeable when it comes to correct scabbards for each bayonet", while flattering is hard for me to take. Thanks again.


Dieter,

You'll find three basic types of scabbard "innards", at least for the common steel scabbards,the two you've pictured and the third type usually seen with tube tips with two long flat steel springs. And yes there is sometimes a triangular folded piece of sheet steel in the scabbard tip. And yes they're a bitch to get out...trust me! Here's an old pic of the small triangular piece I mentioned. Jon
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
You'll find three basic types of scabbard "innards", at least for the common steel scabbards,the two you've pictured and the third type usually seen with tube tips with two long flat steel springs. And yes there is sometimes a triangular folded piece of sheet steel in the scabbard tip. And yes they're a bitch to get out...trust me! Here's an old pic of the small triangular piece I mentioned. Jon
Bingo!! That triangular piece looks like what came out of the one scabbard, though in two pieces. So, it's actually supposed to be one piece! How is that little baby placed inside the scabbard, is it just press fit into place? I guess that's why mine have the rough looking, broken edge - they were split in two. I thought they were somehow attached to the sides of the scabbard during construction.
 
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