[bones92]

The bayonet arrived. Don't have a picture of it, but the marking is like that which BradB posted on the top of page 3 of this thread.

It looks exactly like this "prototype" ... http://www.lvstrings.com/bayonet/prototype.htm I don't have it with me now, but all the features I see in this link are there... blade mark, oblong grip fastener, rounded push button lug, etc.

The blade looks unmolested, with an edge beginning about halfway to the end. The handle retainers are not round, but have a slight oblong shape.

Wood is original, I'm sure, very old. Scabbard is overall decent with a minor dent near the tip. The muzzle ring is bent in a bit, too, but could probably be straightened out.

The downside is that the scabbard and hilt metal have a coat of rust. I can still see a lot of black finish on the scabbard, but it will definitely need some cleaning up. Probably end up with some very light pitting, but I think a lot of the original finish should survice.

 

[Josh man]

If it is three circles it is probably fake. Can you post a picture?

 

[bones92]

Don't have any pictures handy just yet. I'll post some later.

Why would this be a fake? The circles are overlapping in a triangular fashion.

 

[monkeyboy]

If it is three circles it is probably fake.

Why? Thank you, Jon

 

[Josh man]

Is it 3 circles in a triangular position or is it 2 circles inside a circle(does it look like an 8 ball)? If it is 3 circles that are made into a triangular patter it is probably a chinese copy. I havent seen the pics yet, but it may be a chinese copy.

 

[Josh man]

http://www.gunboards.com/sites/banzai/Bayonets/BayManLogos.htm#Top_BayManuf_Logos

Is the symbol on this site right here?

 

[skinsfan]

Is it 3 circles in a triangular position or is it 2 circles inside a circle(does it look like an 8 ball)? If it is 3 circles that are made into a triangular patter it is probably a chinese copy. I havent seen the pics yet, but it may be a chinese copy.

???????????????????

 

[Vicasoto]

Hello Josh:
To help you in clarifying bones92 might be saying, the Tokyo / Kokura logo is best described as a stacked pile of cannon balls, 3 on the bottom with the 4th on top. That if studied by bones will make better sense than describing as "three circles" or " three circles in a triangular position". Your description of Nagoya of two enclosed circles like an eight ball is much better.
There have been bayonets and training rifles made in Japan and occupied China that have used 3 interlocked circles. The more modern oriental copies that are on the e-bay market have 3 very small circles crowded together, that in no way resembles the Japanese logo.
Vicasoto

 

[BradB]

Bones;

Assuming a Tokyo make, it's the most common maker/variation and is worth about $50 "good deal" in the condition you describe. (Assuming grips have original finish, no burred screws and original arsenal sharpening on the blade which is one half to two thirds of the length). Scabbard should have ball tip and thin, milled frog retainer held in place with a screw.

 

[HowdyDoody]

There are a frw bayonets that are fake, there are also some "experts" that are fake.

jim

 

[03man]

Howdy Doody

How about sending me a pm or email ? I need to send you the book info.

Last time I tried your PM was not turned on.

 

[ArcticM39]

http://www.gunboards.com/sites/banzai/Bayonets/BayManLogos.htm#Top_BayManuf_Logos

Is the symbol on this site right here?

Thanks for the reference website, Josh.
And wouldn't you know it, the only Japanese bayonet I own has the triangle next to the reverse 8 inside a circle. I guess it is a no-name maker since the website reference calls it "?"

 

[Edokko]

Some thoughts are that the Nagoya Triangle is Riken Kozai's earlier logo before they moved to the diamond shape logo.
Which by the way, is one of the more desirable logo variation. Is it bright blade or blued ?

 

[Josh man]

There are a frw bayonets that are fake, there are also some "experts" that are fake.

jim

I am not trying to be an expert, its just the way he described the symbol on the blade made it sound like it is a fake. Everybody who sees the Kokura or tokyo symbol for the first time has described the stacked cannonballs as a flower. I have never heard of interlocking 3 interlocking circles so I assumed it was a chinese fake. I hadnt seen pictures of it. I do not claim to be an expert and I am not an expert, I am just a novice collector.

 

[Josh man]

Thanks for the reference website, Josh.
And wouldn't you know it, the only Japanese bayonet I own has the triangle next to the reverse 8 inside a circle. I guess it is a no-name maker since the website reference calls it "?"

I saw one at a local gun show but the guy wanted too much money for it. How does yours look?

 

[Josh man]

Hello Josh:
To help you in clarifying bones92 might be saying, the Tokyo / Kokura logo is best described as a stacked pile of cannon balls, 3 on the bottom with the 4th on top. That if studied by bones will make better sense than describing as "three circles" or " three circles in a triangular position". Your description of Nagoya of two enclosed circles like an eight ball is much better.
There have been bayonets and training rifles made in Japan and occupied China that have used 3 interlocked circles. The more modern oriental copies that are on the e-bay market have 3 very small circles crowded together, that in no way resembles the Japanese logo.
Vicasoto

I found one of the fakes at a gun show and it will not even fit on an arisaka as the lug channel is too narrow and the ring is too narrow.

BTW
I hadnt know the Kokura symbol was stacked cannonballs until last year, I had always assumed it was some kind of flower.

 

[bones92]

Well, I only have a vague description, so I will have to wait till next week to post pictures.

 

[Josh man]

It may well be original, but if it is 3 circles bunched tightly together it is a fake. I hope its not. I cant wait to see it.

 

[Vicasoto]

Hello Josh man :

Hey bud, don't sweat the comments pro & con, you were trying to help answer a question. Just like there is no such thing as a stupid question, there are answers that sometimes reflect a person's ego / prejudice / ignorance. It is one of the beauties of this Nation that everyone is entitled to their opinion and are free to express comments even if they make fools of themselves.
You are right that you are learning as you go along just like a lot of other folks on these boards. Those of us with years of accumulated knowledge are trying to pass along those minute details that you cannot find in the books, it is a give and take, and even I find myself learning also from the observations of others.
Don't ever stop asking questions until you know it all, when you find that you know it all you will be humbled by life and find out that you just started a never ending journey.
Keep it up.
Vicasoto

 

[FootDoc]

Josh,
I think you have done pretty good so far. Keep it up.