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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently came across this rifle, and want more information on it's origin. As you can see from the photos it's a 1909 Argentine rifle. It is however about 5" shorter than a standard 1909 long rifle. It is a DWM made rifle and has a bent down bolt. There is a regular wood type screw through the front band which retains it on the stock. The front end of the barrel seems a wee bit narrower than a standard 1909. The receiver is blued as opposed to the original long rifle receiver which was left bright. The bolt matches the receiver, however the stock S/N matches neither the bolt or receiver.

Was this a purpose made rifle, or an Argentine made adaptation / modification of the original long rifle??

Any info on this type rifle would be greatly appreciated.






 

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It's an engineer rifle. A shorter version of the infantry rifle and only about 10k made. There was also another short rifle; the cavalry carbine with a stock to the muzzle. The blued receiver indicates rearsenal. The 1909 infantry rifle, the engineer rifle and cavalry carbine were all part of the same Argentine contract with DWM.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
So you think this was a purpose built rifle and not a arsenal cut down of a 1909 long rifle.
 

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Originals: Subsequent to the contract of Jan. 20, 1909, 6K Engineers carbines were made in 1910; serials A0000-A5999. The second contract on Nov. 4, 1911, was for 4K; serials A6000-A9999. At some point, others were made from cut-down M1909 "long" rifles. There appears to be a barrel step at the rear of the front sight band and the way the muzzle is cut indicates that yours may be one of those. (I don't believe that mine is made that way - will have to check.) Also, the rear sight on an Engineer carbine is graduated to 1,400 meters as opposed to 2,000 meters for the "long" rifle. Webster's book indicates that Engineer's carbines, Cavalry carbines, and long rifles all start with "A block" serial numbers - they overlap. There was even a sniper version of the Engineer's carbine that had low turret mounts. Your example still has the 1909/1910 "Riccheri" bayonet lug adapter (named after Gen. Riccheri). Often those get tossed. Nice snag. I haven't seen many around lately.

Engineer Carbine shipping data:

2K shipped on Aug 18, 1910, on vessel "Santa Elena"
4K shipped on Sept. 14, 1910, on vessel "Santa Rita" (one was mine)
4K shipped on April 18, 1912, on vessel "Pontos"

Taking a second and hard look with these tired old eyes, I think your rifle appears to be a "K block". That would make it originally a "long" rifle - there were no carbines of either type originally made in the "K block". A0000 to K4999 were made in 1909 and 1910. K5000 to M9999 were made in 1911. I don't have any info on how few or how many were converted, by whom, or when.

DDR
 

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Here's some photos of my "A" block, original 1909 Engineers Carbine. Take a look at the rear sight. Rear sights are usually the easiest way to tell an original carbine from a cut-down long-rifle.














 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks guys, It is a "K" series serial number. I thought it was a cut down but wanted confirmation. What are these going for now in this condition with a mismatched stock?
 

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Good question! I would guess a minimum of $175. to $225. Likely more. I haven't seen what they are going for lately. Might check closed auctions for actual selling prices. DDR

I found and dug out this old beast. It is more weary than beanstrungs and the stock has been sanded and likely forced matched during some refurb.
 
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