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I have heard mixed results, that said I sold my repro 03a4 this past summer and the gentleman that bought it swapped it out with a Lyman Alaskan and it shoots like a lazer now. This past weekend he was shooting lights out with it and iirc it is a CMP approved scope on the 03a4
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I have heard mixed results, that said I sold my repro 03a4 this past summer and the gentleman that bought it swapped it out with a Lyman Alaskan and it shoots like a lazer now. This past weekend he was shooting lights out with it and iirc it is a CMP approved scope on the 03a4
I do like the lymans. Probably the choice I’ll go with a repro. Then eventually buy a real one 😎
 

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I have a related question. I recently obtained an ORIGINAL military M73B1 (WITH a serial number) and it seems to me that there is a slight amount of 'slack' in the crosshair.

Is this something I need to be concerned about if I put it on a rifle?
 

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I am also pretty sure the Lyman Alaskan can be used for CMP. It was not used originally, just the M73b1.

You should be able to find an Alaskan for $200 or less.

Yes, I would be concerned about a loose crosshair. It will likely get worse. I have one like that and need to have it serviced.
 

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From my research, K98 repros are no good...No.32 repros are no good....
Sorry to detract from the main convo but the notion of K98k being no good... Mine have been nothing farther from the the truth.

My K98k High turret shoots magnificently with S&B 196 grain FMJ and SPCE bullet at 100 yards. So the notion of K98k's repros being bad is just bad parts or setup or lack of experience with the rifle.

(forgive the messy target, shooter next to me decided to magdump near my target.)

3760765


My single claw K98k also:

3760767


Messing with the windage screws are a pain I'll admit.
 

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Sorry to detract from the main convo but the notion of K98k being no good... Mine have been nothing farther from the the truth.

My K98k High turret shoots magnificently with S&B 196 grain FMJ and SPCE bullet at 100 yards. So the notion of K98k's repros being bad is just bad parts or setup or lack of experience with the rifle.

(forgive the messy target, shooter next to me decided to magdump near my target.)

View attachment 3760765

My single claw K98k also:

View attachment 3760767

Messing with the windage screws are a pain I'll admit.
I believe the OP was referring to K98 reproduction scopes, not K98's in general.
 

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I am also pretty sure the Lyman Alaskan can be used for CMP. It was not used originally, just the M73b1.

You should be able to find an Alaskan for $200 or less.

Yes, I would be concerned about a loose crosshair. It will likely get worse. I have one like that and need to have it serviced.
Just to add my two bits, I am sure everyone has seen this, but maybe its helpful as a reference. Below is Table 7 from the CMP's rules on Vintage Sniper Rifles (except taken from "CMP GAMES RIFLE AND PISTOLCOMPETITION RULES
8th Edition--2020"

These are the scopes that are allowed, by rifle, including the reproduction scopes.

3760777
3760778
3760779
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Sorry to detract from the main convo but the notion of K98k being no good... Mine have been nothing farther from the the truth.

My K98k High turret shoots magnificently with S&B 196 grain FMJ and SPCE bullet at 100 yards. So the notion of K98k's repros being bad is just bad parts or setup or lack of experience with the rifle.

(forgive the messy target, shooter next to me decided to magdump near my target.)

View attachment 3760765

My single claw K98k also:

View attachment 3760767

Messing with the windage screws are a pain I'll admit.
Thanks for the feedback.
I have never used a repro glass, I have just read that that is the general consensus.
What repro scopes do you have that shot that well?
 

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Thanks for the feedback.
I have never used a repro glass, I have just read that that is the general consensus.
What repro scopes do you have that shot that well?
Repro scopes? None, I've only had one that came with with a sporterized K98k (it was a total POS) I bought at a gunshow and had it switched and restored with original Zeiss optic.
The repro scopes are waste of money and time. You can buy original german scopes from ebay for good prices, one seller I recommend is Holger from germany, goes by germansniper1 on ebay.
 

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I recall reading these CMP rules several times. This has been widely discussed.

The repro M73b1s look good and the company improved them so they are not all created equal. Later versions had thinner cross hairs.

The thing that always gets me is why are the Japanese forced to use original scopes? There is a good adapter for both scope mounts that has been available. They can hold an Alaskan, Weaver K2.5 and 4X, the M73, M81,2,4, and the KM4X, to name a few. Other countries have few choices that make no sense? The matches should let any countries rifle/scope combo that is comparable should be allowed. Somebody show me how a T99 with a 2.5 weaver and a $75 ish mount adapter has an advantage over an 03 with the same exact scope. The advantage has always been US skewed. The Japanese scopes are pricey, prone to flakes in the tube, etc. so preserving them is important. With these rules you do not shoot them or you risk a scope worth $1500-5000. That is just a small problem with the rules, there are many.
 

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The question was if such repro scopes were good or not, NOT a damned thing asked about what CMP allows for their fantasy sniper match where they bent reality so crowds could have a fantasy surplus scoped rifle match. The track record of such repro sniper scopes is abysmal. Good for wall hangers , not worth your money if you intend to shoot.

I'll address the repro scope M73b1 as I've owned this scope, it came on my Gibbs 03a4 clone sniper rifle (Rock Ridge actual manufacturer and supplier to Creedmoor Sports, James Armory and other outlets for this 03a4 repro rifle). The scope cross hairs are thick as stated and the M73b2 version is far better in glass quality, thinner cross hairs and more precise adjustment knob adjustments. That said, M73b2 is a better scope and more functional for shooting purposes.

Be original or M73 repro / clone: you are viewing down a soda straw and you really work hard to shoot well with such a scope. Wasn't so bad at 300 yds but 600 yds, it was miserable. Initially the repro M73's had a very doubtful track record of service and shooter satisfaction but the B2 and current models seem to have no internet hate at all. 6 years ago yes, today don't see it , so I think if one wants to use the M73 type scope, the B2 model is a best bet.
However ....since CMP let modern civilian current mfg. Weaver K2.5 to be used in matches , photos at Camp Perry show this civilian scope the scope of choice for competitors with better glass, better field of view and ZERO historical validation. I thought Vintage Sniper Match was shooting history...and on that point CMP has prostituted this match beyond repair.

The Lyman Alaskan was issued for the 03a4 and the CMP chart merely validates civilian versions of Lyman Alaskan are authorized for their fantasy surplus scoped rifle match. So is Weaver K2.5 . The Kollmorgen is known to have been in USMC supply inventory / not a standard issue item but it gets foggy if it was ever mounted on the 03a4 rifles in USMC hands. Maj. Land , grandfather of USMC sniper program told me they were never used on 03a4 rifles. Now in the field, there is no telling if at unit level, some of these Kollmorgen were used on 03a4's or for that matter on any rifle they had for sniper use.

Parting shot: With the original reproduction M73b1 as sold on my Gibbs 03a4 reproduction , I was able to shoot a 3 inch group at 300 meters on Rg 1 Quantico with my match 3006 loading with 175 SMK. When I installed the Lyman Alaskan, I shot 1 inch group at 300 yards on Rg 4 Quantico with same match hand load. The rifle continues to do 1 inch groups at 300 yds. My best score at our clubs sniper match on 1000 yd line was 186 , 3 x, out of 200 pt. possible. This with the Lyman Alaskan scope and let me stress it was bloody hard work at 1000 yds with a 2.5 x optic !!!!! It would have been truly miserable to do 1000 yds with the M73 soda straw scopes...at least for me.

If you want to shoot a sniper rifle, my view is a reproduction should replicate the original sniper model rifle. Whats the purpose of using fantasy optics on such a rifle ...what are you proving or achieving ? Look at prices of 03a4 reproductions at $1400....if you want to shoot long range accuracy, get a Ruger RPR or Tikka chassis rifle , if you want to shoot WWII history, then shoot it with a rifle that replicates the sniper rifles of that war.

My Gibbs / Rock Ridge 03a4 reproduction: What do I prove stuffing a Vortex 6-24x PST on the rifle and effortlessly shoot high scores at 1000 yd line. The rifle can do it with modern optics. With WWII optics...you discover the reality of what snipers had to deal with.

Oh and don't forget no one is winning the CMP VIntage Sniper Matches with 03a4's ...real or repro. They are won by those with 8x Unertl scoped M1941 USMC 1903 sniper / target rifles. Better optics...pays off !!
 

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PS: Lets not confuse reality. What CMP authorizes has nothing to do with what the Military issued, authorized and used. CMP runs a rifle match , sets rules for such. For collectors...what is CMP legal is meaningless.
 

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If you want to shoot a sniper rifle, my view is a reproduction should replicate the original sniper model rifle. Whats the purpose of using fantasy optics on such a rifle ...what are you proving or achieving ? Look at prices of 03a4 reproductions at $1400....if you want to shoot long range accuracy, get a Ruger RPR or Tikka chassis rifle , if you want to shoot WWII history, then shoot it with a rifle that replicates the sniper rifles of that war.
Agreed in 100% but I have one of the Mosins butchered by IO Ukrainian import. It has threaded barrel (14-1LH) and AK style side rail (can't make this up). I decided put on it Bad Ace Tactical mount and Leupold Mark 6 3-18x which was collecting dust on my shelf, so now I have suppressed Mosin Hunting rifle...;)

@CMP - I think their goal is to bring as many people to the match as possible, but I agree, some of the rules (or exceptions) make no sense at all...
 

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The question was if such repro scopes were good or not, NOT a damned thing asked about what CMP allows for their fantasy sniper match where they bent reality so crowds could have a fantasy surplus scoped rifle match. The track record of such repro sniper scopes is abysmal. Good for wall hangers , not worth your money if you intend to shoot.
And NOT a damn person claimed it to be a legit original, just an option if the OP wants to shoot his 03a4 with a scope that won't fly apart or in a CMP sanctioned event.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Repro scopes? None, I've only had one that came with with a sporterized K98k (it was a total POS) I bought at a gunshow and had it switched and restored with original Zeiss optic.
The repro scopes are waste of money and time. You can buy original german scopes from ebay for good prices, one seller I recommend is Holger from germany, goes by germansniper1 on ebay.
I just picked up a post war Dkl Dialyton from eBay. Building a H.T. currently. Looking forward to getting it down!
 

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And NOT a damn person claimed it to be a legit original, just an option if the OP wants to shoot his 03a4 with a scope that won't fly apart or in a CMP sanctioned event.
Miller ; the point was others took this into a CMP legit discussion, that was not what the OP was asking about. Sometimes attention to addressing the OP's question is important and all the strap hangers who want to talk other things need to invent their own thread. This being a perfect example.

But since you brought up scopes flying apart, the purchase of a repro M73 instead of using an original for CMP or other shooting purposes makes $$$ and logical sense to me. Some folks put serious money into an original sniper rifle and loss of the scope makes that expensive sniper rifle an EX Sniper . These original WWII optics are 75 years old now , I'd not be shooting them in matches and risk damage to them.

Last on CMP: The guy who invests into a repro sniper rifle with replica correct optics and gets his ass handed to him at Camp Perry by the dim wit who scoped his 03A3 with a modern Weaver K2.5 is going to be just thrilled about being beaten ..by a rifle with a fantasy scope on it . We all want to lose a match to a clown with a modern scoped surplus rifle because the rules don't enforce what the Vintage Sniper Match was designed to do...you know....vintage sniper rifles or their correctly done clones. .

Miller is right, CMP "expanded" the rules for optics to allow more shooters to compete in their Vintage Sniper Match. Well.. its a surplus fantasy scoped rifle match and if that floats your boat , have at it. There are other real Vintage Sniper Matches...Henry County Tenn Gun Club runs the best one and another is the one we run at Quantico Gun Club, Quantico , Va. At these matches, you shoot the correct sniper rifle ...original or replica and the match is not a AARP event, its a match of skills.
 
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