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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just got the go ahead to shoot at a private range with steel plates out to 1000 yards and I would like to buy a rifle that my son could shoot with me. My oldest son is in the La. National Guard. This son was never really interested in shooting but after a couple of attempts classified expert with the current M4. My only 223 is a SP-1 from the EARLY 70's in the 28,000 serial range and it is being worked on in Hartford to cure a problem with "stuttering" that shut down the public range a while back.
What AR would most closely emulate what my son will shoot when his student deferment ends and he is deployed? Also;is there a scope and ammunition that I should consider? I would think that range time with a comparable rifle would give my son an edge.
I know that there are lots of guys that can weigh in on this.
 

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Hello Jmouk. Thank your son for serving. If he likes the M4 there are several copies. I have both a Bushmaster and a Stag Arms. I love them both. People also like Rock River Arms (Used by the DEA). The Stag has the detachable carry handle just like the M4. I'm not sure about a scope but most guys
have an Aimpoint or EO Tech red dot sights. The current Aimpoint used is the M68/M4 model. There's numerous back up iron sights available. Some guys do use the Trijicon Sights but these are pricey! They cost more than the weapon itself! Mostly its a matter of personal preference. I hope this helps.
 

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I have a Rock River Operator and it shoots along the same lines as what I carried in Iraq.
 

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Yeah the current setup the Army is going to is the M4 with the ACOG, there are still a few M68's floating around. I had the M4 with 68 and later got an ACOG in Iraq and the ACOG is hands down, my favorite optic of all time.

Some day, if I get a decent job now that I'm getting out of the Army I will look around for a used-refurbished ACOG optic for my Bushmaster 16" carbine. It's as close as I can legally get to what I used in the army, since the "real" 14.5" barrel length is not legal, but there isn't really a noticeable difference with the 16".

I would vote for Bushmaster for the 16" version to be as close to the Colt M4, a lot of the US Govt. contract security guards in Iraq had govt. purchase Bushmaster 16" semi's, and it's also what I used before I joined the Army when I was a nuclear security guard. Those things got fired a lot at day-long ranges with no cleaning until the end of the 8-10 hour training session and always kept right on chugging......that's more than I can say for my Colt M4 I was issued.
 

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I must disagree with most of you. If you have access to a 1000 yard range, then something like a AR-15A2 or flat top with a 20 inch barrel is the way to go. Not everyone in the military will carry a M4. Top it off with a fix 10 power Bushnell Elite 3200 scope, make sure that whatever brand you get that it is 5.56 and not .223.
 

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I bought my son a 14.5 inch barrel M4orgery w/soldered "long" flashhider to 16 inch, IMO it's as close to issue as you're likely going to get. However if it's 1000yd shooting you want I'd opt for a 20 inch A2 or A3 in 6.8.
 

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For 1,000 yard sniping, I agree with acirema. The 5.56 doesn't have enough terminal velocity to do the job at that range. Even the 6.8 SPC is on the weaker side at that distance. Your options in the AR1 platform are a 308 or 6.5 Grendel. However, that requires a different lower to accomodate the longer cartridge size. If you want to keep the same lower and extend the effective range of the 223, consider a 6.8 SPC upper. I own a DPMS in 223 and plan to buy a 20" 6.8 upper with an mk12-type scope, free floated handguard and bipod when funds allow. This will transfrom my CQB M4 into a DMR in about 10 seconds.
 

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For 1,000 yard sniping, I agree with acirema. The 5.56 doesn't have enough terminal velocity to do the job at that range. Even the 6.8 SPC is on the weaker side at that distance. Your options in the AR1 platform are a 308 or 6.5 Grendel. However, that requires a different lower to accomodate the longer cartridge size. If you want to keep the same lower and extend the effective range of the 223, consider a 6.8 SPC upper. I own a DPMS in 223 and plan to buy a 20" 6.8 upper with an mk12-type scope, free floated handguard and bipod when funds allow. This will transfrom my CQB M4 into a DMR in about 10 seconds.
How did this topic get hijacked, you have someone who wants to buy his kid a military rifle, and suddenly people want to turn him into a 1000 yard sniper. Does anyone really think he will be taking 1000 yard shots at a human that we have to worry about terminal velocity. My God, what is wrong with you people!
 

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Weren't you the one who mentioned the 1,000 yard range?

Anyway, the M16A2 and A4 is rapidly being phased out in the Army, but I don't know what NG or Reserve units are still using. You won't see anyone who's combat arms with a 20" A2 and it's even somewhat rare for support personnel these days.
 

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Guy wants something for his son to train with (and some bonding time too) - approximating what he would be issued in the military. The range he has access to is 1000 yards. Just because its 1000 yards - does'nt mean that is the distance he will be shooting at. Assume most shootimg will be at 50, 100, 200, 300 yards.

I would suggest a Colt LE or Bushmaster "M4 Clone" with 16" barrel and removable carrying handle. Get him an Aimpoint and/or ACOG. Some NIW Brownells Aluminum Alloy 30 rnd mags - current manufacturer for military, and some PMAG polymer mags.

Someone else will need to suggest ammo that will come close to matching USGI current.

I might also suggest a Berretta M92F to practice with. Only with factory Berretta mags.

All the mags he can take with him into the service.

The way I read this thread was a father looking to give his son a little more training for overseas duty. Truely a Dad showing his love.
 

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Hello Stan. Many Marine Units still use the M16A2/A4. They like the longer range and velocity it gives. The same goes for alot of Guard and Reserve units that also serve in combat areas. I spent fifteen months in the sandbox and my unit had M16A2's. For the most part, the M4 is the most common though. When I was in Iraq I some some NG units with M16A1's and M60's!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks for the help. I will take my son and let him find the closest configuration to what he trained on at Fort Benning. I think that I will look at rifles from Rock River or Bushmaster. I have waited for Colt to return my SP1 since before January and don't want to buy another Colt.
Would prefer that he learn to shoot distance with iron sights and will not buy a scope. I can only imagine how hard it is to determine distance in the desert but that is another story.
 

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Would prefer that he learn to shoot distance with iron sights and will not buy a scope. I can only imagine how hard it is to determine distance in the desert but that is another story.
The basic foundation of riflemanship is the acquisition of proper sight picture. Letting your son get all the scopes and battery op gee-gaws later,on the gummint's dime & sticking to iron sights to begin with now, is a sound decision.

Too many folks gear up with fancy & pricey junk, hoping to find that mythical shortcut to shooting proficiency, only to find that they are unable to shoot worth a squat when they find it necessary to switch to a different firearm.
 

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I'm the guy AZshooter is talking about. I'm almost convinced I need a Frontsite course to get really proficient with my guns. I'm good enough to shoot bad guys to over a hundred yds or hunt deer or pigs at a reasonable distance, but still wish I was better.

As for the gun, I would really look into the doublestars. They are great weapons, and I love mine to pieces. They are made for folks with a budget, and they are great.
 

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Thanks for the help. I will take my son and let him find the closest configuration to what he trained on at Fort Benning. I think that I will look at rifles from Rock River or Bushmaster. I have waited for Colt to return my SP1 since before January and don't want to buy another Colt.
Would prefer that he learn to shoot distance with iron sights and will not buy a scope. I can only imagine how hard it is to determine distance in the desert but that is another story.
Get yours back from Colt then PM me, I can fix your "stuttering" problem over the phone.
One word; disconnector....
 

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I'm the guy AZshooter is talking about. I'm almost convinced I need a Frontsite course to get really proficient with my guns. I'm good enough to shoot bad guys to over a hundred yds or hunt deer or pigs at a reasonable distance, but still wish I was better.
Not so fast. Before shelling out the big dollars, there are several military marksmanship manuals (USMC, Army, etc) available for free on the web that cover both rifle and pistol. A bit of Google-fu will get you to those PDFs quickly. These will show you what you need to do and are perfectly adequate for home study. Also, check out the possibility of attending an Appleseed in your area. I'd highly recommend it for improving rifle marksmanship.

Keith
 
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