Gunboards Forums banner
1 - 19 of 18 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
121 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I've got a Westinghouse 1891 that someone (edited due to apparent trigger words) cut down and made into a hunting rifle...

Although the Westinghouse might not make sense historically as an Obrez - I would never bring myself to ruin a good rifle... But the damage is already done - so why not Form 1 and sling huge fireballs?

Looking for ideas - if anyone has pics.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
520 Posts
Not sure why a Westinghouse wouldn’t historically make sense (unless it’s US surcharged) seeing as many were in Russian possession at the time of the revolution.

In my opinion, if something has been altered in a way that can’t be undone (such as a cut down barrel) then I don’t think it matters if it is further altered. It has already lost that which makes complete and original military rifles special and desirable. So if that is the case for your rifle, I would have no personal qualms against making a fantasy piece
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
121 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Not sure why a Westinghouse wouldn’t historically make sense (unless it’s US surcharged) seeing as many were in Russian possession at the time of the revolution.

In my opinion, if something has been altered in a way that can’t be undone (such as a cut down barrel) then I don’t think it matters if it is further altered. It has already lost that which makes complete and original military rifles special and desirable. So if that is the case for your rifle, I would have no personal qualms against making a fantasy piece
Oh, no kidding. I figured the US made Westinghouse contract rifles weren't fulfilled like the vast majority of the Remington ones. Good to know that it may have seen use over there.

It's probably a Bannerman's rifle or something - it's been cut and checkered and monkeyed with - it has a US stock band and what looks like an 03 Springfield front sight.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
121 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yup. I did with some saw cut receiver chunks. Two different halves cut by two different people decades apart. 100% legal virgin pistol.
Not much recoil, probably because the powder doesn't have much time to burn. The bayonet is detachable as normal.

View attachment 3779352

View attachment 3779353



I dig the brass buttplate. Thanks for the pics!

That's a cool way of doing it with the cut and weld - saves the tax stamp and red tape of it all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,226 Posts
EDIT. When I first read this post, I missed where you mentioned filling out a Form 1, so the reply below is for those readers who might think they could do this without approval via a Form 1.

Like Martin08 eluded to, you might want to research the legality of such a firearm. From what I remember, once a receiver has been classified (or was born) as a "rifle", it will always be a "rifle" in the eyes of the gov't. Hacking the barrel down to below 16" would make it a SBR. Simply cutting off a buttstock, does not make a rifle a pistol.
I know the BATFE changes and clarifies its rulings all the time, so the above rulings may have changed. In other words, I suggest you do a little research first. But I may be wrong.
TOM
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
121 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
A Bannerman Rifle is collectible in its own right. If it’s been converted to 30-06 even more so.

It's 7.62x54r still. Might not be a Bannerman - but it's a good Sporter job... If there is such a thing. Altered by a gunsmith or altered by a company, makes little difference to me. Figure I might as well have fun with it now.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
121 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
EDIT. When I first read this post, I missed where you mentioned filling out a Form 1, so the reply below is for those readers who might think they could do this without approval via a Form 1.

Like Martin08 eluded to, you might want to research the legality of such a firearm. From what I remember, once a receiver has been classified (or was born) as a "rifle", it will always be a "rifle" in the eyes of the gov't. Hacking the barrel down to below 16" would make it a SBR. Simply cutting off a buttstock, does not make a rifle a pistol.
I know the BATFE changes and clarifies its rulings all the time, so the above rulings may have changed. In other words, I suggest you do a little research first. But I may be wrong.
TOM

You are completely correct.

As a fool who has filed many a Form 1 or Form 4 over the years - I understand the laws set forth by the NFA - but it's always good to clarify for those who are not familiar.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
862 Posts
All right you youngsters who like to cut on guys ,who cut down dirt cheap military rifles into sporters back in the sixties or earlier. Only a few collected them,back then,my self included. They're all I could afford as I bought my first rifle,a minty 1891 Argentine Mauser for 5 bucks.2nd. was a 91 Mosien, I bought from Walter H Craig Inc.for $5.00 + $1.50 Ship. I got a 94 Rem.My Dad Thought it was a good deal and ordered 20 more. I fed and watered and walked a neighbors dog,for e week for a Japanese 38 carbine . My Dad had been hunting with a type 38 6.5 carbine sporter for 10 years, That his uncle gave him. (years later I restored it). Hunters Lodge sold Finn Cub sporters for $12,00 .(cut down Mosiens).In the 50'S and 60'S than was the thing to do,if thars all you could afford ! So don't rag on those guys . They were Hunters, not collectors ! Why carry the extra weight all day .
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
121 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
All right you youngsters who like to cut on guys ,who cut down dirt cheap military rifles into sporters back in the sixties or earlier. Only a few collected them,back then,my self included. They're all I could afford as I bought my first rifle,a minty 1891 Argentine Mauser for 5 bucks.2nd. was a 91 Mosien, I bought from Walter H Craig Inc.for $5.00 + $1.50 Ship. I got a 94 Rem.My Dad Thought it was a good deal and ordered 20 more. I fed and watered and walked a neighbors dog,for e week for a Japanese 38 carbine . My Dad had been hunting with a type 38 6.5 carbine sporter for 10 years, That his uncle gave him. (years later I restored it). Hunters Lodge sold Finn Cub sporters for $12,00 .(cut down Mosiens).In the 50'S and 60'S than was the thing to do,if thars all you could afford ! So don't rag on those guys . They were Hunters, not collectors ! Why carry the extra weight all day .

To each their own. I don't care what people do to their own property. I'm not saying it's ruined for everyone - but it's ruined for me.

Just like this thread... It is obviously intended for a certain group - but being commented on by those who have no interest in it. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,688 Posts
Yup. I did with some saw cut receiver chunks. Two different halves cut by two different people decades apart. 100% legal virgin pistol.
Not much recoil, probably because the powder doesn't have much time to burn. The bayonet is detachable as normal.
I'm really confused, how is this legal as-is and not an AOW?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,407 Posts
It’s ATF retardedness. It’s technically a newly manufactured weapon that was a pistol on the day it was born. To just cut the barrel down below 16 inches is modifying your rifle to a short barreled rifle thus it needs the tax stamp. That’s why pistols can’t have stocks because the stock makes it a short barreled rifle but you can remove the stock on a rifle and it still remains a rifle. Hence rifles can have folding stocks and pistols cannot. Then you get into the area of pistol braces. If you so much as remove the velcro strap from your brace you’ve now manufactured a short barreled rifle and furthermore you better not use the pistol brace from the shoulder unless it’s only incidental contact.

Got it, okay, these are the laws and decrees of the land.
I'm really confused, how is this legal as-is and not an AOW?
 
1 - 19 of 18 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top