[Clark]

Randy Ketchum has welded up 3 or 4 old pocket positive Colt 32 S&W Long revolvers that I treated like 327 Federal and blew the forcing cones out.

He told me a story today about a guy who keeps bring the same revolver back with stuck bullets. I guess he is on the other end of the spectrum.

I put the barrel in the collet in my barrel vise. I remove the cylinder and crane from the revolver. I put duck tape on the revolver frame. I turn the revolver frame with a big Crescent wrench. I unscrew the barrel. I take the barrel to Randy, as he is a much better TIG welder than I am.

He puts some more metal on the barrel breech. Then I put it in my lathe and cut to length, cut the forcing cone, and cut off extra metal so the barrel threads will engage.

See the modified Leupold zero point?
The last pic is the one I got today.

 

[Clyde]

Randy Ketchum has welded up 3 or 4 old pocket positive Colt 32 S&W Long revolvers that I treated like 327 Federal and blew the forcing cones out.

He told me a story today about a guy who keeps bring the same revolver back with stuck bullets. I guess he is on the other end of the spectrum.

I put the barrel in the collet in my barrel vise. I remove the cylinder and crane from the revolver. I put duck tape on the revolver frame. I turn the revolver frame with a big Crescent wrench. I unscrew the barrel. I take the barrel to Randy, as he is a much better TIG welder than I am.

He puts some more metal on the barrel breech. Then I put it in my lathe and cut to length, cut the forcing cone, and cut off extra metal so the barrel threads will engage.

See the modified Leupold zero point?
The last pic is the one I got today.

Does that blowing the forcing cines out of 3 or 4 guns (despite being able to repair thm afterwards suggest anything about the desireablity of loading that hot? Obviosuly, your guns, do what you will - but it really seems like time to back off just a bit. Maybe to 32 H&R levels?

 

[Clark]

They do fine after welding.
Why don't I weld them first?
Hope springs eternal.

 

[Clyde]

What happens after you break a cylinder? Scrap heap?

 

[Clark]

32 S&W longs can have their cylinders split, I have done it.
But not in a work up with slow powder.
They are like 357 mag or 327 mag, the real limit is sticky cases, never mind what they registered at SAAMI.

 

[Clyde]

Not yet, anyway....

 

[Clark]

This is a graph made for me by JonA, a poster at a number of other forums. He does this for a living.

If you know how close the ratio the stress on each firing and the yield strength, this graph will show how many shots are needed to get steel fatigue.

It sort of works out that the ratio of a proof load to a standard load means that the metal will not wear out in a typical number of rounds fired in the life of a gun.

I own hundreds and hundreds of guns bought for destructive test. I will buy more this week end. They do not get that much shooting done by me.

 

[Clark]

I got the 1916 Colt Police Positive 32 S&W long double action revolver running again.

I used an old twist drill ground down as a boring bar to make the 11 degree forcing cone.
I trimmed off the TIG welded drill rod to the right outside diameter, length, and got a .303" pin gauge to enter the forcing cone.
Then I removed a little off the bottom of my fat strong new forcing cone, so the crane will clear.

 

[mrbullets]

"They do not get that much shooting done by me. "

Uh yeah, the reason for which is pretty clear .......................!!

 

[Clark]

"They do not get that much shooting done by me. "

Uh yeah, the reason for which is pretty clear .......................!!

If I have hundreds of guns, and I am giving away this data for free, I can't really hire technicians to do the shooting.

 

[mrbullets]

I meant, the guns don't last all that long with your loads! I know you really love doing what you do (hope you only use beater pistols) but it is a fairly unusual approach to the hobby. Useta enjoy how riled up you got all the Tokarev/CZ folks .................

 

[Clark]

See that graph up there?
That is the fatigue curve for number of firings relative to yield strength.

Here is my schpeal about these loads in the old Colt:
After I read this:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!msg/rec.guns/S_dalM1NJe0/cBSU4bR2jz8J
I then saw revolvers in a different light.
The star extractor of many revolvers, extracts 6 cartridges at once with finger tip force, making sticky cases problematic.
In 2004, 12 years after he wrote that post, I recruited John to help prove all the load books were wrong about the CZ52 being stronger than the Tokarev.
Still it haunts me why I did not figure that out [that sticky cases drive SAAMI registration pressures of revolvers] myself. I had all the clues. The 9mm test loads I did when I started handloading showed signs in the rim and sides that huge forces were involved in extraction.

The things that typically stop me in a load work up in a revolver:
1) The cylinder splits and breaks the top strap
2) The cylinder splits
3) The break top latch stretches making the action sloppy.
4) The frame-bolt-cylinder fit gets beat up making the cylinder rotation at firing to be sloppy.
5) The cases stick.
6) The forcing cone blows out.

I had been experimenting with S&W revolvers, and they shoot loose. Not always. I have an old 25-2 that has seen a lot of hot loads, but still has one chamber that is tight.
Then ~ 8 years ago I got 5 Colt Police Positives for destructive test. The design where the trigger pushes on the hand that pushes on the ejector & ratchet that rotates the cylinder that pushes against the bolt that pushes against the frame that captures the trigger pin that pushes on the trigger. This loop of force causes the cylinder to lock up tight when the trigger is pulled.

This great design shows up after 1907 in the Police Positive 32 S&W Long.
Not only is the inside diameter of the chamber only .340", but the walls to the outside are .070" and the wall between are .058".
Scaling off 460 Rowland revolver cylinder wall stress, the old Colt 32 S&W Long cylinders should then be good for 58,000 c.u.p.
So in the Colt 32 S&W Long, I saw a revolver that would not shoot loose, and the cylinder was going to be impossible to split with slow powder before the cases stuck.
But the forcing cone was not going to co operate with my plans.
So I have to TIG weld on thicker forcing cones made of drill rod.

 

[armyrat1970]

32 S&W longs can have their cylinders split, I have done it.
But not in a work up with slow powder.
They are like 357 mag or 327 mag, the real limit is sticky cases, never mind what they registered at SAAMI.

If you have sticky cases in the cylinders, why not ream the cylinders a little?

 

[jjk308 In Memoriam RIP]

Does that blowing the forcing cones out of 3 or 4 guns (despite being able to repair thm afterwards suggest anything about the desireablity of loading that hot? Obviosuly, your guns, do what you will - but it really seems like time to back off just a bit. Maybe to 32 H&R levels?

Clyde, it's Clark. Telling him about the errors of his ways is a wasted effort.

I think its genetic. Here's a picture of Clark's great great grandpappy, a gunner in the Civil War:

 

[Clyde]

Clyde, it's Clark. Telling him about the errors of his ways is a wasted effort.

I think its genetic. Here's a picture of Clark's great great grandpappy, a gunner in the Civil War:

Yeah, I know. I hope I hear when he blows a hand off, though.

 

[Clark]

My father got the contract to design this M107 and the M110 single bidder.
Detroit Arsenal was very determined to re use a long list of patents my father developed as a first year engineer on the M55 design.

I may have got well off by designing things, blowing them up, and then improving my design, but I will never be the world class engineer my father was.

 

[Clyde]

He didn't do all that great a job on the M107. Lot of dispersion with them, and rapid bore wear. The M110 used an already devised (and very good) 8" howitzer on an excellent SP mount. One of the best tube-artillery pieces we've ever had.

 

[Clark]

I shot the old 32 with 10 gr LIL'GUN 115 gr Western bullet cast.
Quickload thinks it is 42kpsi.
Kicks so hard my hand hurts for some time.
Some leading.
The repaired forcing cone still looks good.