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Discussion Starter #1
It looks like another Victorian ,Aussie gun dealer is going the way of the Dodo.
I walked into my fav dealer today and froze on the spot, He had some 50 odd Lee's some Mk1's brutally sporterised and through to many full wooded Mk3*'s as well and the cream of the crop was a 1898 Mk1 L.E.C totally original complete with the rifle bucket and stake to secure the nag..

I was informed that a shop that closed its shop front and did online trading owned & stored all these rifles and was as of the end of the month was to cease trading as a gun dealer due to being brought out by the .Gov bastards!

pugs....
 

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I have heard the Aussie government is doing that sort of thing alot now and is offering big bucks for them to close down. This really porves that they will try anything to stop gun collectors and shooters in Australia. What really gets up my nose is that because they don't have enough support to be as harsh as they want on firearm ownership by Australian's they have to revert to these sorts of dirty tricks. Combine this with a very anti gun media and a prime Minister who has made it clear that he opposes any type of firearm, you can see why Aussie gun owners are a bit pissed to say the least.

All right rant over.

Still it isn't the first shop to close but with the way we are going it won't be the last.

cheers all,
Lachy.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Its far from a rant Lochy , especially when your right on the money. John Howard ( Prime Minister/ Bullsh1t artist ) is a bastard and can not surely get back in after what the little gnome has done the workers and gun owners rights in this country

JGS. I have already asked about the LEC and as well as the 1916 Lithgow with the volley sight and cut off still in place but was told by the dealer who is holding them that he doesn't believe any are for sale .
And yes i had a good feel of the LEC and there are probably drool marks all over it
FWIW. I was told the LEC would not fetch much change out of 2K if any IF it was for sale.

pugs..
 

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Tell me more

Why are shops being bought out? Surely there'll alwys be another store to sell guns. What other stores have been bought?
 

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I don't want to offend any Australians, but I sincerely believe that Howard's parents met briefly at a masquerade party. How has he lasted this long?????
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Chargerclip , from what I've been told this shop expressed an interest in being brought out by the Gov during the last Gov gun theft/buy back and this was kept by them and now they are pressuring dealer who showed interest .

John , Howard seem to have lasted this long because at the run up to election time he trots out all these little goodies and the sheep forget the evil he has done earlier and the majority of sheeple have been programed to think Guns = bad people.
Even the day care my 3tr old daughter goes to has tried to brainwash her as she came home not long ago and said to me that Miss XX said that guns are bad and should go in the bin
Like a little trooper she is her responce was that she loves daddys "bang bangs" What a Kid!

pugs..
 

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yeah..and dontcha just love

the way the libs are trying to switch the workplace stuff around...when it first came out, to please businesses big and small...it was all toughness on the worker, build up business we've got to compete overseas workers taking part in illegal industrial action get jailed etc etc and all that crap...

Now the libs have seen that its an election loser for them look at how their backpedalling....now its 'work choices'...cause we've found that the workers 'dont want their conditions dictated by the unions'....and the bureau they've set up...'just phone us if you need to talk about your work place agreement'...now there is a 'fairness test'....hmmmm fairness to who I wonder...and 'we'll take employers to court if they dont do the right thing'...and the other good one 'look how many workers are now in jobs' and all the tv ads....paid for by our tax dollars....in an effort to swing the workers back...

Ah well, there is a lot more workers in Oz than gun owners...hopefully no worker will ever vote liberal again (I know many gun owners who wont) and that may be the end of them...they're mostly dead in the state governments anyway...unless, as someone has said...the sheeple just get turned around .....
 

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That whole situation just makes me sick to my core...A while back the NRA ran a late night paid program where they showed footage of people having their guns taken away in the UK and other places and the police destroying them...I swear it was one of the saddest things I have ever watched...I actually did a paper in college comparing gun control laws in the US and UK...it's a total myth that gun laws make people safer...heck since we enacted concealed carry laws in Texas our violent crime rate has gone down sharply...You never know who is packing...sure there are places you can't carry like schools and federal buildings...but all and all it has made our state safer...I just can't imagine the government would actually buy a business just to close it...it really is insane...my heart goes out to you guys...I hope it never gets to the point where they try to take your guns away..."from my cold dead hand"...doesn't really do it justice because if I go down there are twenty people behind me to pick mine up so long as it has ammo to keep fighting...I am sure the government will keep it's guns...you know what happens to people without guns at the mercy of people with guns...well that is enough of that rant...I am sure it is not anything you haven't heard before...just needed to vent...sorry once I get going...
 

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I can only see Australia going the way the UK has with gun laws. It's sad but true. All it will take is another port Arthur or something along that nature. I really see no way the gun laws will be improving in the future for Australia whether Labour or Liberal is in. Fire arm ownership rights aren’t a big issue for most political parties in Australia but restricting them seems to be.

There really is an anti gun atmosphere here in Australia. I'm only young but speak from personal experience. Before being accepted into the army as an armourer I was looking at doing a civilian gunsmithing apprentiship. To my knowledge it is almost impossible here in Australia, there are no schools, no TAFE courses or any type of training facilities. The only way would be to approach a gunsmith and ask to do an apprentiship under him. This is hard unless you know one and it is on his personal whim whether or not he takes you. After that you have to inform your local apprentiship centre what you are doing and fill out forms, pay money and go through so much bullshit you will start to wonder why you even bother. After Port Arthur TAFE stopped doing courses and gunsmithing in Australia is really a dying art. Here in WA I think there is something like two or three qualified gunsmiths. The only way possible that I could see would be to go abroad and get my qualifications and then come back, how the hell I would fund this is another question. It really pisses me off what is happening here where I'm pretty much being forced to go abroad for an apprentiship. I want to be a gunsmith and I want to be an Australian too!!! Though it seems a can't be both.

There that’s another rant done, I'm glad I got this off my chest.

Cheers, all
Lachy.
 

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I know how you feel

Pretty much my one and only shop for surplus rifles closed its doors last tuesday. What really sucks is that they had about 10 arisaka type 99s(one which was the paratrooper version), several No.5s, Yugo M48 in outstanding condition, and a Danemarkian(spelling?) M1 Garand in almost new condition. Whats worse is that at the time I had spent all the money I had saved up on my 1950s Long Branch so I couldnt buy any of them ahhh! lol
 

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"All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."

the purveyor of evil here in the US is misinformation by the media and all it takes for that to take over is for no one to dispute it. unfortunately we live in a time where people believe anything that they read and they major media outlets know this. they have a tremendous power because most people don't want to cause a ruckus, they just want to decide one way and move on. what we must do as responsible firearms owners is to: 1) present factual data because nothing beats the truth and 2) dispute the lies that many people would have the general public believe.

i don't want to see another news flash of Australians giving up their firearms, please don't let that happen.
 

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Handguns

Appear to be the horror weapons. Of course most if not all of the trouble is from illegal/non-registered guns.

I think that's the strength of any argument. It's not the licensed guns that are causing the problems.
 

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"All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."

the purveyor of evil here in the US is misinformation by the media and all it takes for that to take over is for no one to dispute it. unfortunately we live in a time where people believe anything that they read and they major media outlets know this. they have a tremendous power because most people don't want to cause a ruckus, they just want to decide one way and move on. what we must do as responsible firearms owners is to: 1) present factual data because nothing beats the truth and 2) dispute the lies that many people would have the general public believe.

i don't want to see another news flash of Australians giving up their firearms, please don't let that happen.
Apathy. Apathy on the part of people who own, use and appreciate firearms but who, in large part will not spend their money or invest their efforts in organizations which promote and defend their interests and/or rights.

Here, in the U.S., only a small number of gun-owners, gun-hunters, gun-collectors have a membership in the NRA or any other pro-Second Amendment organizations; most of the gun-enthusiastic people simply rely on a relatively small number these organization members to defend and promote the interests of millions who assume that their rights are guaranteed by virtue of their not yet being required to surrender their fireams. Yet.

I do not presume to speak for the same of gun-owners in the U.K., Australia, etc. - I don't intend to judge other nationalities on the basis of what is on-going in the U.S. but I suspect that a broad-based pro-gun ownership movement, of multiple decades' history might have won and held the same tenuous rights which American gun-owners enjoy and which a minority of American gun-owners continue to win by dint of financial and ballot efforts.

"Let George do it." George is the dues-paying, card-carrying and publicly but politely vocal member of organizations such as the NRA in the U.S.

Fragmented efforts on the part of gun-owners will likely never be more than a pitifully disorganized rabble asking "please sir..."; a relative minority population of legitimate gun-owners politely requesting its rights in the face of superbly organized and well-funded campaigns promoted by a populace which seeks the virtual guarantee that social violence will be ended by the absolute absence of firearms.

For those who feel that stirring the pot and creating a "fuss" by organizing a well-informed and well-funded resistance to the "anti-gun faction" would somehow be impolite or socially improper, I will suggest that the alternative is to quietly form up and hand over one's firearms to the smelter without so much as a whimper.

MrBurritoMan has cited an eloquent and profoundly true statement - "All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."

"Peace in our time." 1938. Good men did nothing. "If not now; when? If not here; where?"

You can call me "George".
 

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The thing people in US forget is that the Politicians here don't actually care what anyone thinks. Every single licenced gun owner in the country could join the SSAA and the politicians still wouldn't listen to them- there are maybe 1,000,000 licenced shooters in Australia out of a population of 21,000,000 or so, so there's no real reason for politicians to pay any particular attention to what gun owners want when there are 20,000,000 other people who either don't care or actively oppose what those 1,000,000 are up to.
 

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I'm afraid I'm going with Bezoar on this one.

An organised front with paid up numbers to back it up, will at least present a credible opposition.
 

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The SSAA here in Australia need to be praised for their continuing efforts in rallying the Govt and anti gun lobby. The NRA (I am a member of both) is the true definition of being apathetic to it's members. I have not known them to be proactive in any of the gun debate. Probably because they have been able to hide behind the skirts of their patrons and the fact that they only use single shot target rifles. Unfortunately even though SSR's has 17 odd chapters to they are only concerned with the one called Target rifle. I and others are about to embark on a process of being duly elected into positions on councils to change the attitude towards other mentioned disciplines. Mine is service shooting. I am of the opinion that SSAA and the NRA need not be combined but can work together in this area of firearm owners rights. Some states have a good working and respected relationship with each other and the numbers that turn up at shoots proves this. It needs to happen on a national basis. There is no doubt that SSAA has a broader umbrella to cast to encompass all it's members. One club along in Sydney has 20,000 members alone. Experience and connections from the NRA can be combined with the eagerness and financial backing of the SSAA to achieve the only aim, and that is to retain what we have and work on getting a few of the others back.
Then again pigs might fly!!!!!
Cheers
NED
 

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Really?

The thing people in US forget is that the Politicians here don't actually care what anyone thinks.
Actually we have that same problem here too...I dont know what you've been reading about us. Actually the CDC is looking into a epidemic sweeping our Capital cities and Government offices...it's very nasty it's called head-in-rectumitis...it's much worse than the typical head-in-sand-atosis that most politicians suffer from.

Of course we also have our fair share of politicians that are really flag supporters...they blow every which way the latest wind of public opinion is going, right or wrong be damned...If 1 nutball in 6 million of us orders a few extra clips off E-Gay and goes on a shooting spree why the whole system must be flawed, quick lets make a law to make that illegal...and pressure and corporate entity to ban selling such horrorible things...

What really chaffes my hide is that all politicians no matter the country or the party, seem to think they are smarter than all of us because we voted for them and that by voting for representation that some how means we want them to tell us what to do... Like a overbearing mother they want to take away the ball from their child because "hey balls that bounce into streets kill people, not the freakin moron running after it"...it's not the balls fault...maybe your kid is just too stupid to learn how to look both ways without the positive reenforcement of a smack from a car bumber...trust me they will figure it out...and if something should go the other way well I guess it's better they aren't the gene pool...It's like helmet and seatbelt laws...don't they realize we are heading toward a population crisis...if someone is stupid enough to ride a motorcycle or get behind the wheel of a car without one of these fine inovations...then they too are better off getting out of the gene pool...

Politicians can talk all they want if it ever comes to the day where they send someone with a gun to take my gun...we will exchange more than words...and I can can do my "talking" from further away then they can.

Until then I counter their retoric any way I can by teaching as many people as I can about guns, and how in the right hands they are not evil weapons but tools for the good of mankind...I also try to instill in them the ideal that the true symbol of liberty is the rifle hanging in the cottage of the poor worker and not only in the hands of the government.

--------------------
Sorry I just meant to put the head-in-rectumitis thing at the begining but I kinda got on a roll
 

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The thing people in US forget is that the Politicians here don't actually care what anyone thinks. Every single licenced gun owner in the country could join the SSAA and the politicians still wouldn't listen to them- there are maybe 1,000,000 licenced shooters in Australia out of a population of 21,000,000 or so, so there's no real reason for politicians to pay any particular attention to what gun owners want when there are 20,000,000 other people who either don't care or actively oppose what those 1,000,000 are up to.
Politicians are usually elected; a process which requires popular support/money. Politicians, IMHO, seldom care about principle; they care about personal power/prestige - a point you make. Actors and or pretendors on a stage of local/national/international proportions, they are people whose acting-out can be cut short by the success of opposition - the opposition's success being better funded and/or more popularly supported.

"...maybe 1 million licenced shooters out of a population of 21 million..."

Here in the U.S., the NRA has a membership of, maybe 2+ million among a population of 200+ million and most of the NRA membership is "annual" and at a rate of $35/year. 2 million x $35 = $70 million. A nice sum in itself.

Then, there are the Life members, the Benefactors, the Patrons and the Endowment members. And there are the contributions of people who buy from gun-related businesses which encourage "rounding up" their purchase amount by a few cents as a donation to the NRA.

Then too, their are the donations by firearms/ammunition sellers who see "the handwriting on the wall" and contribute funds as a means of insuring their own existence. It all adds up and it adds up quickly.

1/21 vs 1/200 indeed.

Granted, we here in the U.S. have the benefit of our Second Amendment (Bill of Rights) to our Constitution which states "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." (Militia = citizens, as established by multiple legal challenges to the Second Amendment intent over the past many years by anti-gun ownership entities.)

Our forebears, having had the experience of governance by a "despot" distrusted absolute power by the "crown" or any other tyranny and reserved the right of U.S. citizens to be armed in order to oppose tyranny. "From my cold, dead hands...."

The fact remains that our NRA has, by dint of membership fees and contributions to its ILA (Institute for Legislative Action) been able to lobby our national leadership in such a manner as to keep our "gun rights" at least tenuously secure.

Money. Money buys power. Lots of money buys lots more power. More proponents of gun-ownership contributing money = more lobbying power.

Sad it is that money supplants moral character and ethical behaviour among politicians but it does so on both sides of any sociopolitical issue.

Australians have been in the forefront for so long in so many conflicts that most of us look to them to stand up and take full on any attempt to suppress them.

Sometimes the opposition seems overwhelming. Sometimes it only appears to be so.
 
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