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Diamond Bullet Member and the Revered Sir Jim
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was a bona fide REMF ( In the rear with the Sgt. Major & the gear), so I know where to go to ask this question-the Ammo Sgt.

I am curious about how ammo sales are trending in terms of pricing and availability from your point of view. It seems from my non sophisticated look availability is trending upward and prices holding steady. I realize this is very broad, but a year ago there was a darn near panic going on.
 

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Diamond Bullet Member
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Here in California the panic has subsided somewhat but sales are still brisk due to a law that goes into effect next year which will restrict handgun ammo sales. No internet sales (including presumably 22 rimfire) and photo ID/fingerprinting at any gun store where you buy your ammo. And of course much higher prices from all the additional record keeping requirements.
 

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Platinum Bullet member
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I'm in firearms retail , www.oeoutfitters.com and speak with the largest distributors in the country daily . The shortage is definately easing with regards to target ammo . There are some ammo categories and specific loads that remain thin but for the most part it's getting easier to fill the shelves . That said , the manufacturers are not lowering our costs yet , but I think you'll find soon that overstocked dealers will be running sales . For example , 9mm ball that was $15 last year will be $10-11 . Imo .
 

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It's looking promising... not a big drop in prices, but some drop, availability is looking better, at least on ammo that is still commonly made... Some things like .303 Brit what ya gonna do... on the other hand copper is over $3 a pound( thats getting up towards all time highs) and lead is at about 80 cents a pound , up from it's recent lows of 50 cents a pound.

Properly stored ammo keeps for decades... don't go crazy.. budget what you can afford and buy only that much each month like any other investment... I save up my budget on anything like this for 4 to 6 months to have a "emergency reserve" of cash to buy into any great deals that come along .. then I replace that cash first before I resume monthly stocking.. I also don't buy if there is nothing priced right and add that to the emergency reserve.

Concider reloading and bullet casting... you can save bundles shooting cast bullets with low pressure pistol powder loads in rifles.. perfectly good for range work out to 100 yards 200 yards sometimes... don't try to reload for calibers that are cheap right now like 7.62x25 or 5.45 x 39.

My biggy though, is folks who stockpile milslurp ammo for SHTF. IMHO bad idea.. milslurp is great for practice and training, don't get me wrong, but I stockpile either commercial or handloads with the meanest most lethal bullets I can get for SHTF.. civilians are not covered by international treaties requiring humane less than one shot lethal military ammo.. in WW2 1 in 4 soldiers shot actually died.. now in Iraq and Afghanstan it's down to 1 in 10 with current medical technology .. and I mean the guys on our side, not the guys getting shot with M4's and Berreta 9mm's.
Chances are in a SHTF situation you are not going to have great medical back up, so any hit on you and yours is going to be a potential kill, slow or fast, so you cannot afford to take chances that the first hit on the zombies is not fatal. If you cannot get your head around deliberately using the most lethal and effective ammo available and deliberately shooting to kill, then no ammount of ammo will save you. Practice with milslurp until you are a dead shot, train like your life depends on it.. but just like you carry the best most lethal ammo in your CCW everyday, and have that 20 round box of Core loc for deer season.. you should have a couple hundred rounds of the best most lethal ammo for when the bad guys can shoot back for your rifle. You can handload real lethal first rate defensive ammo( yes I know what Ayoob says about handloads) for about 1/3 of what first rate designed to be lethal ammo costs off the shelf. I would point out that Ayoob is against handloads because of potential problems in court .. I don't see courts as a big part of SHTF, in fact I see SHTF as being potentially outnumbered by zombies and wanting every advantage I can get.

You don't go cheap on carry gun ammo, you don't go cheap on hunting ammo, you shouldn't just be looking at cheap milslurp for SHTF ammo. Have a stash of whatever ammo makes your rifle the most accurate and lethal weapon it can be.

uh.. I better get off this soap box.. thanks for listening .... bye...
 

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Diamond Bullet Member and the Revered Sir Jim
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks. Your comments are very much to my thinking, I have two tiers of ammo. Plinking/target and SHTF stuff. I try to pracice with both so that I am comfortable with each. Both types of ammo have different objectives IMO.
 

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It is a real good idea to practice with the good stuff as well as surplus just to make sure it functions well in your chosen arms, if you can afford it. Surplus is my choice, solely because it is cheap. Probably a lot of folks are in the same boat. I'm glad to see more ammo on the shelves and I'm elated to find prices coming down on most of the common stuff. Still, when the time comes that the ammo I have laid in is all I'm going to have for the duration, I'd rather have 1000 rounds of surplus ammo than 100 rounds of the good stuff for the same money. We're not all so well off as our rich and hip Aunty AmmoSgt.
 

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Diamond Member
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Rich and Hip GRANNY AmmoSgt.. bought her 7.62x54r back when it was $5.95 a box of 20 for PPU Commerical boxer NC 150 gr soft points from Coles Distributing ( which was Gunboards Sponsor back in the day).. Granny AmmoSgt watches the metals market.. that when she started buy Au and Ag just like I described on a budget a little every month.. and I bought both ammo and metal back then for the same reason.. you could see all this coming if you looked. Hmmm PPU, hell I got Hansen boxed 7.62 x54 and .303 Brit hunting ammo stored.
 

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President Obama may issue executive orders right after his defeat in the November election to interfere with the rights of gun owners.

1. Ban the importation of much of our favorite ammo.
2. Ban the importation of imported semi-automatic rifles.



This is but the calm before the storm people.

You have been warned.
 

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Rich and Hip GRANNY AmmoSgt.. bought her 7.62x54r back when it was $5.95 a box of 20 for PPU Commerical boxer NC 150 gr soft points from Coles Distributing ( which was Gunboards Sponsor back in the day).. Granny AmmoSgt watches the metals market.. that when she started buy Au and Ag just like I described on a budget a little every month.. and I bought both ammo and metal back then for the same reason.. you could see all this coming if you looked. Hmmm PPU, hell I got Hansen boxed 7.62 x54 and .303 Brit hunting ammo stored.
I've got some of that PRVI 150 grain soft point ammo in both calibers. Gotta get some of the 180s soon...
 

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I agree.....having ammo, in BULK, whether new commercial or surplus is whats important. Yugo brass cased surplus 7.62 x39 and 25 is great stuff, reliable, and in a bad situation would serve me well. I do not buy that a round has to be h/p to perform well.

I have plenty, but will probably pick up another grand in brass cased yugo.....
 

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Diamond Bullet Member
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I agree.....having ammo, in BULK, whether new commercial or surplus is whats important. Yugo brass cased surplus 7.62 x39 and 25 is great stuff, reliable, and in a bad situation would serve me well. I do not buy that a round has to be h/p to perform well.

I have plenty, but will probably pick up another grand in brass cased yugo.....
What the Sarge is saying is that ammo quality trumps quantity unless you have your own private army - or you've organized a neighborhood militia. How many rounds a minute can you get off?
 

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Hey .. each to his own... survival is pass fail test... everybody who survives did it right.

I think it may be to late too make any big changes in your preps at this point so don't worry about it...

If congress passes unemployment extensions this week or next and all the other stuff... then we probabaly colapse economically a little later down the road.. a little later not much.... if they don't, 2 million unemployed come off the dole over the next two weeks... could cause some social unrest.... probably won't take to many miscalculation trying to restore order to make it much bigger and violent than it needs to be... one headline event and all hell could break loose.


Might be a good idea to say a prayer and make sure your water cans are full.
 

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What the Sarge is saying is that ammo quality trumps quantity unless you have your own private army - or you've organized a neighborhood militia. How many rounds a minute can you get off?
Oh crap, once again I missed the message and thought it was 'neatness counts', I have lined all my ammo cans with cloth doilies. Guess its back to the drawing board. :)
 

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Hey .. each to his own... survival is pass fail test... everybody who survives did it right.

I think it may be to late too make any big changes in your preps at this point so don't worry about it...

If congress passes unemployment extensions this week or next and all the other stuff... then we probabaly colapse economically a little later down the road.. a little later not much.... if they don't, 2 million unemployed come off the dole over the next two weeks... could cause some social unrest.... probably won't take to many miscalculation trying to restore order to make it much bigger and violent than it needs to be... one headline event and all hell could break loose.


Might be a good idea to say a prayer and make sure your water cans are full.
Not to worry, all those poor souls who fall off the UE rolls will just move on to the Welfare rolls.

Doomsday postponed, again.
 

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I beg to differ. MS ammo in large quantities is "acceptable" in a SHTF sit. If I'm using Russian surplus in my AK, and have lots of it, it is foolish to go and buy match-grade USA ammo, and have a lot less of it.
 

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Copper Bullet member
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I stockpile milsurp. My "collection" is milsurp and geared to the ammo I can most afford to shoot in quantity. I shoot in quantity with weekly trips to the range. I know my guns and the ammo I'm using. My guns are zeroed to that ammo. I know the drop and characteristics of it for windage and elevation correction.

The problem with two stashes, good commercial loads in smaller quantity and spam cans of milsurp, is the vast differences between the two.
You have to shoot it to know it. I can't afford to bark out the quantity of commercial stuff to get intimate with it in the same way I am familiar with the milsurp I burn weekly.
In a SHTF situation, I will be using the milsurp I am familiar with as I know where those bullets are going to go and how each gun performs with them.
Having experienced the considerable differences, even with hand loads, I don't want to be confronted with a bullet that is going to be far off my accustomed zero and require time and practice to "learn" it.

Besides, I like those steel cores and what they can do!
 

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Diamond Member
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I just zero with my good ammo and go for group size with my training ammo... well actually most of my shooting these days is working up and testing loads... but when I am just blasting, poa and poi don't really need to be the same.

BR welfare? must be a west coast thing... in Alabama we just have assistance to families that have kids, it's small and you have to have practically no income, if you have income it counts against how much you get dollar for dollar and child support counts against how much you get dollar for dollar.. only parents guardians get FA if the have a kid in the house.

I can't recall ever having to adjust pistol sights for the kind of pistol shooting I do.. heck half my pistols don't have adjustable sights... same with shotguns.. well I have lasers on the slugguns I adjusted those.

In fact about the only rifle I have that won't put training ammo close enough if I run out of "good" ammo is the K98. Milslurp pretty much is within 3 or 4 inches ( which is about group size in most cases for milslurp any way, sometimes more especially for 7.62x39) while my good ammo is all under 3" @ 100 yards if I do my part some much better than that, (again not the 7.62 x39). I find milslurp usually varies more in group size than POI once you zero with "good" stuff. Not counting cat sneeze and light loads for the kids of course.

And geeze i an't talking about every rifle in my collection.. I only have about a dozen "go to" rifles for SHTF defense in just 5 calibers... I got lots of collector rifles but I wasn't planing on using the VZ 52 in 7.62 x45 as a "frontline rifle" although I got 4 K of ammo for it none of it reloadable and they don't make commercial in that caliber etc etc .
 

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Diamond Bullet Member and the Revered Sir Jim
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
".... ammo quality trumps quantity unless you have your own private army - or you've organized a neighborhood militia. "

My personal goal was to be able to arm a squad of 14 freinds/neighbors if they show up with no guns or ammo. I have met that goal and we could put down a pretty good lay of fire; for awhile.
 

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I beg to differ. MS ammo in large quantities is "acceptable" in a SHTF sit. If I'm using Russian surplus in my AK, and have lots of it, it is foolish to go and buy match-grade USA ammo, and have a lot less of it.
In an AK it doesn't much matter what ammo you use as long as it fires, you ain't getting match-grade accuracy no matter what.
 
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