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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As I anxiously await the arrival of a beautiful 28-30, a question occurred to me.

I know that many of these rifles have .308 bores. Of course I plan to handload for this one eventually, BUT

Is it a bad plan to fire a 28-30 at all with standard 7.62x54R? I've got some Prvi Partizan Match here I was thinking of trying out in it if it's not unsafe or likely to damage the rifle.

Not interested in rolling the dice, so I figured I'd see what the consensus here is.
 

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Best answer, slug the bore, that eliminates any guesswork as to actual barrel diameter. Many people have safely fired standard 7.62x54r ammo out of these rifles, you do so at your own risk of course. It's also possible that the chamber dimensions could be more problematic than the barrel diameter, reports vary in that respect.
 

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As I anxiously await the arrival of a beautiful 28-30, a question occurred to me.

I know that many of these rifles have .308 bores. Of course I plan to handload for this one eventually, BUT

Is it a bad plan to fire a 28-30 at all with standard 7.62x54R? I've got some Prvi Partizan Match here I was thinking of trying out in it if it's not unsafe or likely to damage the rifle.

Not interested in rolling the dice, so I figured I'd see what the consensus here is.
Seconded. I was wondering the exact same thing. I have a 28/30 I've never shot, but I have a boatload of Wolf steel cased, Yugo surplus, Russian and Bulgarian surplus. Not interested in reaming out the barrel.

But that leads to a question I don't know the answer to. WHY did the Finns size it that way? I know about the A/B/C variations, but why standardize on a smaller bore?
 

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Slug your barrels.

There is a general consensus that firing seriously oversize rounds may lead to a potentially dangerous overpressure, but many barrels are worn enough that it isn't much over.

Don't guess -for the price of a small piece of lead and a dowel you can know for sure.

So yes, it is a bad idea to fire possibly oversize ammo in them.

You wouldn't load .310 or .311 Mosin bullets in .308 cases and then try to shoot them in your AR-10 or Remington 700, would you? Might work, might not.
 

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M28/30s all start out 0.3085 bore. Original 28/30s have an unusually short chamber for a Mosin (read this as desirable) and are designed to use the Lapua D46 bullet. If a 28/30 is "D marked" then the chamber has been modified (reamed out longer) to use the unusually long Lapua D-166 bullet. Contrary to popular opinion, d-marking or lack of it means nothing on a M39 (they all were made for D-166).

Will it shoot the Privi without blowing up? Probably. Should you use the Privi? I wouldn't.

IMHO anyone serious about shooting a 28/30 should handload.
 

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But that leads to a question I don't know the answer to. WHY did the Finns size it that way? I know about the A/B/C variations, but why standardize on a smaller bore?
The original Russian S-08 ball had bullet diameter 7.81-7.83mm and Finns adapted this bullet for their standard S-08/22 load without making any changes during the early 1920s. Instead, to improve accuracy groove diameter of the new barrels was decreased to accommodate the bullet better. On the other hand, the CG organization orientated strongly to target shooting and in the early 1920s all match grade D bullets were of foreign (western) origin, German and American mostly. So it's partially your fault as well.

After Finns and Russians split up, their 7.62mm cartridge development followed different paths and designers didn't co-operate. The Russians increased their bullet diameter not until the Soviet era. Apparently Finnish intelligence knew something about it as the development done in the 1930s ultimately led to new bullet with increased diameter, the D-166, in 1936. Groove diameter of the m/39 wasn't clear until the eve of the Winter War though and some details were re-considered afterwards based on combat experience.

Think about it. How the Finnish designers of the 1920-30s could have known that the U.S. shooters of the 2010s would like to feed Finnish weapons with post-upcoming-war LPS steel core ball that they now have boatloads in their hands.

Some more stuff by Pitkänen & Simpanen is here:

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthr...7-62mm-bullet-book-by-Pitk%E4nen-amp-Simpanen

:)
 

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Hi CH. I read through the linked thread and it seems the original 28/30 may not have been designed around the D46 as I said. Open mouth, insert foot. Can you please shed more light on the bullets originally used in 28/30s with uncut chambers? This will hopefully be my new thing learned for the day.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 

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I have a 1934 Sako M28/30 with a "D" barrel, and mine seems to shoot surplus very well, and without issue.
 

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Gotta say, I have always fired Soviet or Chinese surplus in my 28-30s with ho hum accuracy, but it fired. Makes sense if you squeeze a larger diameter bullet down the bore, accuracy could suffer, higher pressures, etc. I am going to experiment with some loads this Summer and see just how accurate some of my 28-30s can be.....cept someone bought my nicest 28-30....

;)

Pahtu.
 

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Hi CH. I read through the linked thread and it seems the original 28/30 may not have been designed around the D46 as I said. Open mouth, insert foot. Can you please shed more light on the bullets originally used in 28/30s with uncut chambers? This will hopefully be my new thing learned for the day.
I think the uncut m/28 and m/28-30 throats are optimized for SAKO bullets which existed between the late 1920s early 1930s like 101A and 105A. Also 108A was used a lot on the later half of the 1930s. The VPT D-46 and D-47 possibly served more as competition ball rather than service ball in the CG organization but they were undoubtedly used a lot too. Both were introduced in 1931. So far I've not seen seen a referece that would reveal which bullet the m/28-30 rear sight is calibrated.

Simply put, the correct bullet is D ball whose diameter is 7.83-7.85mm and weighs 11.6-12.0 grams.

Please note, the only difference between 101A and 105A is that the later one has crimping groove. Just like D-46 vs. D-47.

Was the answer, merely speculation, complicated enough? :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Gotta say, I have always fired Soviet or Chinese surplus in my 28-30s with ho hum accuracy, but it fired. Makes sense if you squeeze a larger diameter bullet down the bore, accuracy could suffer, higher pressures, etc. I am going to experiment with some loads this Summer and see just how accurate some of my 28-30s can be.....cept someone bought my nicest 28-30....

;)

Pahtu.
Huh, I wonder who did that??

(I cannot WAIT to get that rifle in hand!)
 

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I know surplus guys are going to love this infromation but in the 1960s the Finnish Army bought tens of millions LPS rounds made by the factory 188 from the Soviet Union because domestic ammo was running out. These cartridges saw some use in former CG rifles too as "7.62mm Rifle Renovation Guidelines" from 1971 has a table showing how much m/28-30 front sight height needs to be changed when going from D-166 to LPS.

"Told ya!", say the LPS guys. :laugh:
 

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I think the uncut m/28 and m/28-30 throats are optimized for SAKO bullets which existed between the late 1920s early 1930s like 101A and 105A. Also 108A was used a lot on the later half of the 1930s. The VPT D-46 and D-47 possibly served more as competition ball rather than service ball in the CG organization but they were undoubtedly used a lot too. Both were introduced in 1931. So far I've not seen seen a referece that would reveal which bullet the m/28-30 rear sight is calibrated.

Simply put, the correct bullet is D ball whose diameter is 7.83-7.85mm and weighs 11.6-12.0 grams.

Please note, the only difference between 101A and 105A is that the later one has crimping groove. Just like D-46 vs. D-47.

Was the answer, merely speculation, complicated enough? :)
Thank you!! I hate it when I'm the source of misinformation. Your answer cleared this up for me, even if there is no simple answer!!


Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 

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a few years late, but it will be helpful. I have a 28-30, NO D Stamp. Have not shot it. Just bought some commercial Norma 7.62x54R SP point, 180 gr. I would like to shoot these rounds because I will only take it out to see where/how it shoots etc. I don't want to mess w/ corrosive ammo. I do have a spam can unopened. (Russian, 147 gr). pls give me your input. MW
 

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I have always been told not to use surplus ammo for the M28/30 because surplus 7.62x54r is manufactured to .311, and the m28/30 has a very tight bore (the tightest in fact of all the models of mosin nagants) of .3082". Wouldnt the size difference cause issues with the bullet deforming? Or is the pressure so great that the bullet will simply mash and elongate to fit the barrel?
 

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Is there a confirmed case of a M28/30 barrel failing due to surplus ammo? I have to say that I generally shoot surplus or new manufactured Tula ammo I purchased when Walmart sold it. No issues so far with it.
 

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Slug each and every bore and measure each and every bullet from each and every source you care to shoot. React accordingly. I have found over the years there is quite a variance in all new and non-corrosive ammo that you can buy these days and that same variance exists in the old corrosive milsurp ammo from yesteryear too. I have never had any signs of over pressure regardless of what kind of ammo I have tried to shoot. I have seen reductions in accuracy and a reluctance or a flat will not chamber in many Mosins along the way. Not just 28/30's mind you but early M27's especially are finicky as to what they will chamber and shoot. My 28/76 slugs out around a 308 and with checking I have found modern ammo that comes close enough to shoot accurate and work well in it. I have never handloaded for anything I own and shoot every thing that I consider safe to shoot and accurate enough to enjoy. I shoot nothing but milsurp surplus ammo that for the most part is corrosive and have cleaned safely and completely any rifles I own assuming that it is all corrosive with no damage and good results. My actions are as a result of years of personal experience and I fully encourage everyone to make their decisions on their own results and act accordingly. I can only tell you what I have found and nothing else. So keep your minds open and find things out for yourself! It just may save you a bunch of time, effort, and money. Bill
 

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My M28/76 was built on a M28/30 barreled action. My initial tests with .308 Lapua Scenars and other proven target bullets were not impressive. The rifle's bore shows wear; these rifles were shot a lot before they were surplused. Grouping improved greatly when I tried the Lapua D46. But the real surprise, and very pleasant too, was when I tried a load with the Berger 175 gr VLD Target bullet.

A range club buddy shoots his M28/30 with Serb M30. He won my club's recent "Winter War" match with this combination. Serb M30 has a lead core, so it swages down, i.e. squeezes, to conform to the .3085" bore diameter without pressure issues. Prvi Partizan 182 gr FMJBT appears to be identical to Serb M30 except for the primer.
 

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I have had my 28/30 for close to ten years and have never fired it. I use the 174g Match Kings at .309"~.310" for the rest of my Mosin rifles and don't have access to the D bullets. Thus I am still in the dark and the rifle is not D marked.

 
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