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Discussion Starter #1
krochus
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
1632 Posts
Posted - 06/22/2004 : 8:56:43 PM
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What were the specs on the round nose and spitzer loads the AG42B sights aer regulated for. Having trouble with my rifle shootin high.

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jim in Oregon
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
2301 Posts
Posted - 06/23/2004 : 09:36:09 AM
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krochus, The M94/M41B Swede spitzer 139 grain milsurp ball ammo is loaded to run between 2525 & 2575 FPS MV from the 24" or so barrel on the Ljungman rifles.
My rifle prints 3" low at 100 yards from sandbags.

The Ljungman has TWO different ammo settings on the rear sight.One is for the M94 158 grain older round nose ammo, and the other is for the newer spitzer ammo.

If you look closely at the sight you can see the image of a small bullet in the 'window' of the rear sight, left side.

IF the round nose bullet shows, pull the retaining pin and reverse the wheel thingy so the spitzer bullet shows.

There are taller front sights availoable for the Ljungman rifles, but before you go to the trouble to find one, make certain to check a few things.
Ammo MV, bullet weight, rear sight as mentioned above,make sure you are not shooting from a hard rest..Draw the sights down level and squeeze..:)
As a note, IF your rear sight is set properly for the spitzer Swede ammo. one possible explanation which would justify a taller sight would be a tight bore.
Few folks go to the trouble to slug the bores on their Swedes, but it can prove enlightening for those who really want accuracy with issue sights.
Normally, the Swede armoroures would have made such front sight adjustments before putting the rifle into service tho.The Swede ball spitzer ammo is very good in consistency in my experience.
Goes without saying the bore should be well cleaned and chamber polished etc.What ammo are you running?What method of shooting are you employing? Does the rifle cycle reliably?
Stock discs are some indication of bore diameter and condition, but only insofar as the condition of the rifle WAS when last inspected by the Swede armourers..jim

Edited by - jim in Oregon on 06/23/2004 09:50:28 AM


jim in Oregon
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
2301 Posts
Posted - 06/23/2004 : 11:35:12 AM
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Here's a pretty good site on the various Swede mil ammo..Velocities are in meters per second..Jim

http://medlem.spray.se/coonan/eframe3.html


jim in Oregon
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USA
2301 Posts
Posted - 06/23/2004 : 3:54:39 PM
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krochus..here's a picture of the little 'spitzer' bullet showing on the rear sight of the Ljungman..just to the right of the sight adjustment knob..jim

{Picture was no longer available on old server}
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krochus
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
1632 Posts
Posted - 06/23/2004 : 6:04:38 PM
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The reson I ask is I am trying to work up some good handloads. My best so far is probably 95% reliable 140 gr remington sp over 39.0 gr of IMR4320 C.O.L is 3.150 and yealds 2422 fps but still shoots 10" high @ 100 with the sights set properly? But I also want to get 160 gr hornady bullet to go the correct velocity for huntin. Any suggestions.
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Edited by - krochus on 06/23/2004 6:06:25 PM


jim in Oregon
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2301 Posts
Posted - 06/23/2004 : 6:19:37 PM
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krochus..I'll assume then that the rear sight is set for the spitzer bullet.

I'll assume that your 'tests' are from some sort of rest which is not too hard.

When you say 95% reliable..what are you referring to?The cycling of the rifle under fire?

The reloads I have developed for my AG42B are using a mid range burning powder..37 grains Rel 15.Check the burn rate for your powder with that and IMR 3031, which is also a great powder t use for the Ljungman.
I use Sierra 140 grain BTSP hunting bullets, CCI#34 primers, Lapua brass.
My cartridge OAL is 3.064, trim 2.160".
Accuracy? 1.5 MOA out to 300 yards from the bench bags, 2 MOA is the best I can do with proper sling sitting or prone.
Reliability?100%..nor beat up brass..no stovepiping, no torn cases or broke extractors.
It's not the only good load but it works in my rifle.

I have shot the 158 grain Norma Alaskan hunting loads from the rifle and they actually print higher at 100 yards using the spitzer rear sight setting..I have not worked up any hunting loads for the 158-160 grain bullets as I have other rifles more suited to hunting and to use the Ljungman in Oregon, I have to disassemble the mag and insert a wood block to reduce mag cap to five rounds.

You have a few options:
Reduce the load a bit.Change components( each bullet and workup will run differently in a given rifle)
Get a taller front sight to 'fit' the loads you have worked up.jim


krochus
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
1632 Posts
Posted - 06/23/2004 : 8:05:19 PM
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Yes 95% is refering to cycling 5% mostly are stovepipes and some brass damage throughout. BUT I have not been back to the range since modifing my gas block to be adjustable. I tried IMR3031 and found velocity to be poor and the rifle would short stroke very often.

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jim in Oregon
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
2301 Posts
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 10:25:52 AM
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krochus,Give us an update when next you try the rifle at the range with the adjusible gas port.

Can you describe the modifications you made?

What brass are you using, primer?

IMR3031 works well, but it is important that the MV be in the 245-2550 FPS range with the 140 grain bullet.Too light a loading and you'll not have sufficient gas to properly cycle the action..
I find a chronograph to be invaluable..even IF one has to borrow one occasionally.jim


jim in Oregon
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
2301 Posts
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 11:24:26 AM
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krochus..One other thot I had that may be of value for you:

In many cases, I have seen a rifle print high at 100 yards with UNDERPOWERED loads..
This doesn't make sense on the surface, but practical experience shows that this can occur when the bullet spends more time in the bore, exiting when muzzle rise from recoil is greater and thus the POI at 100 yards will be higher.

IF you are shooting slower loads( you mentioned short cycling) this may be contributing to your high POI rather than the sight height.

For the Ljungman, strive to develop loads that use a mid range powder burn rate and give an MV of 2450-2550 fps with 139-140 grain bullets..Bet that will solve ytour high POI issue..as well as insure the rifle cycles reliably.jim


krochus
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
1632 Posts
Posted - 06/28/2004 : 10:47:49 PM
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My modtfication involved removing the orignal cap screw and then retapping the gas block port to 8x32 threads the I installed a machine screw that wasn't threaded all the way down and used a nut to lock eveything in place. I can nou close the gas port complety if neccary. I will let you know how well it works.

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krochus
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
1632 Posts
Posted - 07/12/2004 : 6:26:28 PM
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You were correct Jim 2500 F.P.S and the rifle shot spot on the sights. I think the gas block mod may be the way to go. I boogered up 3 cases when the bolt closed on them before I got the adjustment right. After that the cases didn't have a scratch on them and cycling seemed much smoother.

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
And here are the additional data as to the older m/94 roundnose cartridge;

swede
Posted - 09/08/2004 : 10:28:45 PM
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Round nose bullet weight was 156 grains. Muzzle velocity 2100 fps in M-94 carbine & 2329 fps in M-96 rifle.

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Added from another thread:

Meinander
Posted - 12/08/2004 : 1:59:46 PM
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I found muzzle velocity listed as 700 and 750 mps (2300 and 2460 fps) for 10,10g (156 gr) sk ptr m/94 prj m/94 roundnose loading. Which is correct for shooting an m/96 rifle?

Also, is the Hornady 160 gr RN bullet closest to military?
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Edited by - Meinander on 12/08/2004 2:13:27 PM


jim in Oregon
Posted - 12/08/2004 : 3:45:51 PM
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Everything I have seen was 700mps..

http://medlem.spray.se/coonan/eframe3.html

Possible that a variance would be seen depending on whether the ammo was fired in the M94 M38 or M96 barrels tho.
I have never pulled an original M94 bullet to look at the base, whether flat or otherwise.I use the Sierra 160 SMP bullets alot and like their accuracy..jim


Meinander
Posted - 12/08/2004 : 8:42:05 PM
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Thanks Jim. I have seen the site you reference but I think the Dutchman shows 750 mps on his ammo page. I bet the difference is m/94 vs m/38 vs m96 rifles. Do you have a pet load for m/94 in m/96 rifles?


Dutchman
Posted - 12/09/2004 : 01:30:01 AM
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The m/94 bullet has a flat base. I have about 100 pieces I picked up at a gunshow many moons ago that I've loaded on occassion. I prefer them as they just shoot so dang good. I've also loaded the Hornady 160gr since they're the vitual twin of the m/94 bullet.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
More military ammo velocity specs

This informative posting is copied from another board, namely
http://p223.ezboard.com/fcurioandrelicfirearmsforumfrm8.showMessage?topicID=1453.topic

RosemondCrest wrote on 8/13/07, at 9:07 pm:

According to Dana Jones, author of "Crown Jewels," the specified muzzle velocity of Skarp Patron m/94, projektil m/41 (m/94 cartridge with m/41 projectile) in the various Swedish rifles and carbines is:

m/94: 720 m/s (2362 f/s)
m/38: 765 m/s (2510 f/s)
m/96: 790 m/s (2592 f/s)

He goes on to describe the Prickskytte cartridge as being improved for accuracy with the m/41 sniper rifles and suggests that eventually all m/41 ball ammunition was made to these standards, but does not mention any difference in muzzle velocity.

The specified muzzle velocity of m/94 Skarp Patron is:

m/94: 640 m/s (2100 f/s)
m/96: 710 m/s (2329 f/s)

I hope that helps.
 
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