Liberty
Posted - 04/07/2004 : 07:51:29 AM
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Here are a few cartridges i could use some more opinions on. At the moment i just cant get a good close up picture of.
1.brass case C.A. B-42 bullet copper jacket, exposed tip, steel core (magnetic) a circumferal partition line .375 from the tip. crimped.
2.brass case B.P B-11 bullet white metal non magnetic, .25 exposed soft point large circumferal partition (visable in the picture), crimped.
3. brass case F.P C-03 X at 9 oclock, cupero-nickle? Nicklish color, non magnetic, exposed lead tip. crimped.
4. brass case C.A D-40 bullet brass colored, seems like brass, large exposed tip, almost a mild hollowpoint, nonmagnetic, 3 slits along the bullet starting .25 from the tip. the bullet seemed a litle loose, so being the curious type i started to pull it out. the thing pulled out to 1.75 exposed with more in the case!!! i pushed it back in. the slits seem to run the whole way. also crimped.
What do you think?
Picture did not survive
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DocAV
Posted - 04/07/2004 : 08:44:35 AM
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All your 6,5s are "Specials"
#1: Inspector "C.A", Bologna 1942; Magistri type Training cartridge, two piece frangible jacket, NOT steel core, but plated steel jacket.
Rare and desireable..
#2: Inspector Pietro Boragine, Bologna 1911, Cupro-nickel jacket, Short range gallery type load. With this date, also very desireable.
#3: Inspector "F.P." Capua 1903, "X" Solenite Load (to distinguish it from earlier balistite Load); Short range gallery type.
#4. Inspector "C.A.", Bologna (should be "B", not "D"...may be bad strike of bunter) 1940. Guard or Riot cartridge (Cartuccia a Mitraglia--Literally "grapeshot" cartridge): pre-grooved multiple core bullet, jacket rips off on exiting barrel, separating split core into numerous small hemi-cylindrical sections about 3mm long each, plus jacket strips and small pellet nose cap. Used for crowd control and Barracks guards.
Bullet is almost as long as the case (47mm long Bullet).
All your samples are nowadays considered rare and very desireable, especially the 1903 short range one.
All these Specials tended to be mixed into the big clean out of italian Ammo which occurred in the late 50s ealry 60s, into those asnonymous 50 round boxes of Repacked ammo ( Ammunition warehouse sweepings and repacked Breda and M91 Clipped ammo.
I have found all sorts of headstamps and varieties in this type of Repack 6,5 carcano ammo. ( over 150 different H/S and loading variations.)
Liberty
Posted - 04/07/2004 : 12:57:45 PM
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DocAV, thanks for your response. This ammunition was mixed in with regular ball on rifle clips. #4 even magnified its tough to tell the B or D marking. Also included in this lot were some lacquer coated steel cases that leave the date and inspector marks unreadable. I am not sure how common there are. The Guard or Riot cartridge alows the bullet to be pressed back into place with out resistance. Can ther be much powder to displace?
DocAV
Posted - 04/07/2004 : 7:08:04 PM
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Further to the Specials Posting, the Steel cased Carcano ammo was made with German technical Assistance from about 1941-2 onwards, to 1944 at least. By the end of 1944, all the major manufacturers in italy had fallen to the Allies (Capua 43, Bologna 44) leaving only Genoa and Milan ( BPD and LBC and Fiocchi (GFL) in operation during 1945. Steel cased ammo of any type usually has a lower shelf life, especially in the poor conditions in Italy during and after WW II, as well as that which has come from Yugoslavia and Albania...very poor survival rate for steel cased 6,5.
tbaus
Posted - 04/07/2004 : 11:58:03 PM
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If I could piggyback on to this thread, I have a question about 6 rounds of 6.5 Carcano ammo I have. The headstamp is S.A. C 53. It has an exposed tip and appears to be a two piece bullet with a circumferal partition line as described by CL in his #1 cartridge. Do you know anything about this one.. what it is, collectability?
DocAV
Posted - 04/10/2004 : 12:50:20 AM
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Again, the SA C53 is post war (1953) Magistri Indoor training ammo
"indoor" is a relative term, it can mean everything from a miniature range (25 metres)to a completely Walled-in Shooting range of 200 or 300 metres -still very common today in Italy, but mostly abandoned and in disrepair. During the pre-war and immediate post war periods they were very much in use. The frangibility of the bullet was to prevent dangerous "overshoot".
A collectible item. Post war Magistri cartridges are rare.
tbaus
Posted - 04/11/2004 : 5:19:19 PM
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Thanks DocAV... I appreciate the information. You used the wording "Again, the SA C53". Did I miss something in your earlier post? Thanks again. Good shootin'...
Posted - 04/07/2004 : 07:51:29 AM
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Here are a few cartridges i could use some more opinions on. At the moment i just cant get a good close up picture of.
1.brass case C.A. B-42 bullet copper jacket, exposed tip, steel core (magnetic) a circumferal partition line .375 from the tip. crimped.
2.brass case B.P B-11 bullet white metal non magnetic, .25 exposed soft point large circumferal partition (visable in the picture), crimped.
3. brass case F.P C-03 X at 9 oclock, cupero-nickle? Nicklish color, non magnetic, exposed lead tip. crimped.
4. brass case C.A D-40 bullet brass colored, seems like brass, large exposed tip, almost a mild hollowpoint, nonmagnetic, 3 slits along the bullet starting .25 from the tip. the bullet seemed a litle loose, so being the curious type i started to pull it out. the thing pulled out to 1.75 exposed with more in the case!!! i pushed it back in. the slits seem to run the whole way. also crimped.
What do you think?
Picture did not survive
Download Attachment:
114.5 KB
DocAV
Posted - 04/07/2004 : 08:44:35 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All your 6,5s are "Specials"
#1: Inspector "C.A", Bologna 1942; Magistri type Training cartridge, two piece frangible jacket, NOT steel core, but plated steel jacket.
Rare and desireable..
#2: Inspector Pietro Boragine, Bologna 1911, Cupro-nickel jacket, Short range gallery type load. With this date, also very desireable.
#3: Inspector "F.P." Capua 1903, "X" Solenite Load (to distinguish it from earlier balistite Load); Short range gallery type.
#4. Inspector "C.A.", Bologna (should be "B", not "D"...may be bad strike of bunter) 1940. Guard or Riot cartridge (Cartuccia a Mitraglia--Literally "grapeshot" cartridge): pre-grooved multiple core bullet, jacket rips off on exiting barrel, separating split core into numerous small hemi-cylindrical sections about 3mm long each, plus jacket strips and small pellet nose cap. Used for crowd control and Barracks guards.
Bullet is almost as long as the case (47mm long Bullet).
All your samples are nowadays considered rare and very desireable, especially the 1903 short range one.
All these Specials tended to be mixed into the big clean out of italian Ammo which occurred in the late 50s ealry 60s, into those asnonymous 50 round boxes of Repacked ammo ( Ammunition warehouse sweepings and repacked Breda and M91 Clipped ammo.
I have found all sorts of headstamps and varieties in this type of Repack 6,5 carcano ammo. ( over 150 different H/S and loading variations.)
Liberty
Posted - 04/07/2004 : 12:57:45 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DocAV, thanks for your response. This ammunition was mixed in with regular ball on rifle clips. #4 even magnified its tough to tell the B or D marking. Also included in this lot were some lacquer coated steel cases that leave the date and inspector marks unreadable. I am not sure how common there are. The Guard or Riot cartridge alows the bullet to be pressed back into place with out resistance. Can ther be much powder to displace?
DocAV
Posted - 04/07/2004 : 7:08:04 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Further to the Specials Posting, the Steel cased Carcano ammo was made with German technical Assistance from about 1941-2 onwards, to 1944 at least. By the end of 1944, all the major manufacturers in italy had fallen to the Allies (Capua 43, Bologna 44) leaving only Genoa and Milan ( BPD and LBC and Fiocchi (GFL) in operation during 1945. Steel cased ammo of any type usually has a lower shelf life, especially in the poor conditions in Italy during and after WW II, as well as that which has come from Yugoslavia and Albania...very poor survival rate for steel cased 6,5.
tbaus
Posted - 04/07/2004 : 11:58:03 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I could piggyback on to this thread, I have a question about 6 rounds of 6.5 Carcano ammo I have. The headstamp is S.A. C 53. It has an exposed tip and appears to be a two piece bullet with a circumferal partition line as described by CL in his #1 cartridge. Do you know anything about this one.. what it is, collectability?
DocAV
Posted - 04/10/2004 : 12:50:20 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, the SA C53 is post war (1953) Magistri Indoor training ammo
"indoor" is a relative term, it can mean everything from a miniature range (25 metres)to a completely Walled-in Shooting range of 200 or 300 metres -still very common today in Italy, but mostly abandoned and in disrepair. During the pre-war and immediate post war periods they were very much in use. The frangibility of the bullet was to prevent dangerous "overshoot".
A collectible item. Post war Magistri cartridges are rare.
tbaus
Posted - 04/11/2004 : 5:19:19 PM
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Thanks DocAV... I appreciate the information. You used the wording "Again, the SA C53". Did I miss something in your earlier post? Thanks again. Good shootin'...