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A commentator said early on....there will be a finding of accidental death,as the state wants to keep the movie money.........and no way will they scare away the movies by locking up a big name.
 

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The Rust Armorer is suing the ammo supplier for including live ammunition in the cartridges they supplied to the set. We’ll see where that goes.
I have not followed it close, I have about given up on "hollywood". I thought the dead woman was the armorer?

And what was supplied means NOTHING, you are the armorer, you have one job to ensure the guns being used are safe for filming. That is it. YOU failed at your job armorer, the buck should stop at your desk.
 

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Without getting into politics... I'm thinking the armorer is the one who will take the fall on this.

It's a movie set, the actor is SUPPOSED TO POINT THE PROP at somebody and "shoot" them. I know they do trick camera angles and whatnot, but we've seen onscreen a thousand times- a gun lined up at a person, and "fired".

I've read where people scream that he should have checked the gun to ensure it's not loaded; but my understanding is, the ARMORER does that. And if an actor then fiddles around with the gun in a way they weren't supposed to, say drop the mag or open the cylinder- the armorer snatches that gun back, rechecks it to ensure it's safe, and tells said actor not to do that again.
Baldwin is many things, a screaming lib among them, but he's not a novice actor. I'm confident he's been conditioned to obey the armorer by now.

Like others have said, the biggest issue is how in the world they had live ammo on the set. It's a disaster waiting to happen, and in this case it did.
I agree with this. From what I understand it is the armorer that is to ensure all of this. The actor is acting, some of them get very into the part they are playing to the point of making them crazy. The entire thing should be on the armorer.....unless one thing happened. Baldwin had in his pocket "live" rounds and he replaced the blanks with live rounds. In my book this is the only way he has any responsibility in this matter. I can't stand the guy, and think he is a waste of air. But if he was even screwing around the armorer is responsible for the guns on that set.
 

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I haven't followed this matter. It's a terrible tragedy in any case. I also doubt seriously any ill intent if by now investigation apparently hasn't suggested. It seems no such allegations. As far as "accidents" go, I do wonder just how many pros reading this have gotten through entire 'packing' careers without "accidental discharge". Typically "range days". Let those guys cast the first stones. There's also possibly some "assumption of risk" theory attendant in respect of actors voluntarily placing themselves at muzzle end of a functional gun. Also, and showing my lack of specific knowledge, weren't there multiple levels of security screenings involved? Wouldn't/shouldn't others involved bear proportional responsibility too? I know of this actor and have viewed some of his films. I appreciate his talent. I don't know what level of responsibility should be assessed to him. "Pulling the trigger", like any training function often involves realistic scenarios. Much of formal training "pushes the edge". "Well trained folks make mistakes. Almost always, grace of God, no person injured.
I simply know that as sympathizing with all, I couldn't cast stones. My Agency trained quarterly. We still had the occasional "stray discharge report" as training. Never any injuries, but some red faces and some denials... "Wasn't me, wasn't me!" Syndrome.
Easy to judge, but equitably only as all facts reasonably to be ascertained.
Just my take!
Best!
John.
I think that there is a very big difference between negligent discharge and accidental discharge. The two can and are used like clip and magazine, or cartridge and bullet. It gets a pass, but they are two very different things. On the below video go to roughly 1:07, this is how I have always defined it.


That all said this means jack and squat on a movie set. Everything there is to be "fake".

Us gun people are pretty good at picking up little details in movies, the classic example is the 15 round six gun in open range. I noticed the other day in Once upon a time in hollywood, there is an old west scene where a girl is kidnapped and they are asking about how much money to get. The "bad guy" points a six gun at the little girl and says they can only hang me once. During that scene I noticed (as only a gun nut would) that there are bullets visible inside the gun, the camera shot is from the muzzle end with a focus on the bad guy, and you can see the bullets in the gun:

Flash photography Photographer Camera Reflex camera Cameras & optics


We have come to demand this level of realistic in our movies. I would assume these are "loaded" cartridges with no powder or primer, but with a bullet seated. I doubt the actor thought once if the gun is loaded when he put it to the "little girls head" If it was, it would be harder for him to "get into" the part.

The scene from where the still is grabbed.

I pulled this for language at the tail end of the clip, if you want to see it youtube once upon a time in hollywood kidnap scene

This is not a discussion of any of the politics of this subject, just how the movies are made.
 

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I have not followed it close, I have about given up on "hollywood". I thought the dead woman was the armorer?

And what was supplied means NOTHING, you are the armorer, you have one job to ensure the guns being used are safe for filming. That is it. YOU failed at your job armorer, the buck should stop at your desk.
No, victim was a cinematographer. Armorer was a woman, Thel Reed's daughter in fact (not that her ancestry is important, just a tidbit). Must note that blanks can be dangerous (including deadly), though range is reduced as compared to live ammunition.
 

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No, victim was a cinematographer. Armorer was a woman, Thel Reed's daughter in fact (not that her ancestry is important, just a tidbit). Must note that planks can be dangerous (including deadly), though range is reduced as compared to live ammunition.
I think that is how Brandon Lee died.

I remember reading an article about Natlie Portman, she was very young and doing the movie the professional. Lots of gun play. Her folks insisted on "over the top" gun safety while she was on set. I have seen the movie and it is a little strange to say the least. I think she looks like she was about 12 at the time, but hollywood you never know.
 

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I think that is how Brandon Lee died.

I remember reading an article about Natlie Portman, she was very young and doing the movie the professional. Lots of gun play. Her folks insisted on "over the top" gun safety while she was on set. I have seen the movie and it is a little strange to say the least. I think she looks like she was about 12 at the time, but hollywood you never know.
Yes, Brandon Lee was killed when a .44 Mag revolver that was previously loaded with dummy rounds, which in his case were just live ammo that had the powder removed but a live primer still. Somebody fired one of those "squib" rounds prior and the primer pushed the bullet into the barrel were it became logged. Later a blank round was fired at Brandon and it had enough power to propel the bullet into him. Again, nobody inspected the revolver prior to discover a bullet logged in the barrel. Prior to Brandon Lee was actor Jon-Erik Hexum back in the 1980's who put a .44 mag with a blank cartridge to his head and fired it killing himself.
 

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Baldwin has had plenty of experience with guns on set he is a typical person who does not think before doing which caused a wounded person and a death. HE SHOULD HAVE TAKEN THE TIME TO CHECK HIS GUN BEFORE FIRING IT OR HANDLING IT.
 

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Baldwin has had plenty of experience with guns on set he is a typical person who does not think before doing which caused a wounded person and a death. HE SHOULD HAVE TAKEN THE TIME TO CHECK HIS GUN BEFORE FIRING IT OR HANDLING IT.
People I grew up with, and (at least) most of those I know well enough to know about attitudes toward firearms wouldn't pick up a gun without checking its status. But perhaps they are atypical.
 

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Picture this. Baldwin wandering around the set saying "pull my finger"

This really is a non issue. Nothing will happen, nothing. I just finished "Laptop from Hell". It is time to realize that there are different rules for different classes and certain classes are immune. Sad to say but I think we all realize that we now have reached a point where we unwashed masses must "fear our government".
 

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You people are making the assumption that these items on a set are guns, they are not, they are props. A prop is not a real gun, but a real gun can be a prop.

If I handed you a toy gun that looked just like the "real thing", would you check it....you might you are a "gun person" raised on the "gun rules". If you are a busy actor and you know every prop on set is to be fake or a toy, you might check at the start, but that habit would get forgotten in short order. It is not real, this is the thing you guys are forgetting.

Trust me I have less then zero respect for Baldwin, he is a waste of human flesh, however we can't put "normal" rules and procedures in play here, he has a armorer for this, that is their job, to ensure safety for people that have little to no real experience with the item in question. Not everyone is going to go out like the actors did for the John Wick movies. They are not that invested in their craft IMHO to really learn all about what they are playing and who they are playing.

I remember watching a video about the movie Rush. It is a movie about Niki Lauda and James Hunt, F1 race car drivers back in the 70's. Lauda read the script and said he wanted nothing to do with it, why? One line was he gets in the car and turns the key. An F1 car has no key. The people that wrote the movie had that little base experience on the field they wrote about. The actor that played Lauda asked questions, do you put gloves on then the helmet, no, helmet on first, why you can't fasten the helmet with the gloves on. All these little things came together in this racing movie. Details that "normal" people would miss, things that only a race car driver or someone that was around them catch, it is the same thing with guns in movies that people here catch.

Some actors go to different lengths to bring more to the film, I remember the actor that played Lauda learned german in austria. Why because the accent is different. This is the level of detail that some go to. Others are....lazy....I guess I will say like baldwin and just want the check.
 

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I think he was making the point that in Hollywood people have people that do everything for them so they do not have to exhaust themselves thinking about everything.If anyone ends up convicted it will be the prop master or armorer
 

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I think he was making the point that in Hollywood people have people that do everything for them so they do not have to exhaust themselves thinking about everything.If anyone ends up convicted it will be the prop master or armorer
As may be. However - IF you were always taught "there are no toy guns" as far as the way you treat them, you are unlikely to grow up and shoot somebody you didn't intend to shoot. You are NOT supposed to fear guns, but you are supposed to respect them. Maybe I think that way because i was taught to think that way, but I think it is a pretty good idea. So - I haven't ever shot anybody I didn't intend to, not so far anyhow. And have shot some i did intend to, which is a record I am satisfied with.
 

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Baldwin has had plenty of experience with guns on set he is a typical person who does not think before doing which caused a wounded person and a death. HE SHOULD HAVE TAKEN THE TIME TO CHECK HIS GUN BEFORE FIRING IT OR HANDLING IT.
That's not how things work on a professional movie set. It is the armorer's job to ensure the gun is safe to use for the scene and it's the actor's job to trust that the armorer has done their job properly. In this case, the armorer screwed up.
 

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I haven't followed this matter. It's a terrible tragedy in any case. I also doubt seriously any ill intent if by now investigation apparently hasn't suggested. It seems no such allegations. As far as "accidents" go, I do wonder just how many pros reading this have gotten through entire 'packing' careers without "accidental discharge". Typically "range days". Let those guys cast the first stones. There's also possibly some "assumption of risk" theory attendant in respect of actors voluntarily placing themselves at muzzle end of a functional gun. Also, and showing my lack of specific knowledge, weren't there multiple levels of security screenings involved? Wouldn't/shouldn't others involved bear proportional responsibility too? I know of this actor and have viewed some of his films. I appreciate his talent. I don't know what level of responsibility should be assessed to him. "Pulling the trigger", like any training function often involves realistic scenarios. Much of formal training "pushes the edge". "Well trained folks make mistakes. Almost always, grace of God, no person injured.
I simply know that as sympathizing with all, I couldn't cast stones. My Agency trained quarterly. We still had the occasional "stray discharge report" as training. Never any injuries, but some red faces and some denials... "Wasn't me, wasn't me!" Syndrome.
Easy to judge, but equitably only as all facts reasonably to be ascertained.
Just my take!
Best!
John.
He Pointed the gun at someone and shot . I maybe have had a accidental discharge , but never when pointing a gun at someone !! Does anyone wonder , or has he said, why he pointed the gun at her ??? He's no kid and he's been in other movies where guns were used . He has no defense other than, "If you convict me of a crime, I'll tell Hollyweird never to come back here again" . It's all about money and he will skate because of it. We would be in prison !!
 

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Without getting into politics... I'm thinking the armorer is the one who will take the fall on this.

It's a movie set, the actor is SUPPOSED TO POINT THE PROP at somebody and "shoot" them. I know they do trick camera angles and whatnot, but we've seen onscreen a thousand times- a gun lined up at a person, and "fired".

I've read where people scream that he should have checked the gun to ensure it's not loaded; but my understanding is, the ARMORER does that. And if an actor then fiddles around with the gun in a way they weren't supposed to, say drop the mag or open the cylinder- the armorer snatches that gun back, rechecks it to ensure it's safe, and tells said actor not to do that again.
Baldwin is many things, a screaming lib among them, but he's not a novice actor. I'm confident he's been conditioned to obey the armorer by now.

Like others have said, the biggest issue is how in the world they had live ammo on the set. It's a disaster waiting to happen, and in this case it did.
What I remember was, it wasn't a "take" , as in the cameras were rolling . He was fooling around with the gun and pointed it at someone and shot them . If that's the case, he shouldn't have been handling the gun at all.
 

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Armorer was a woman, Thel Reed's daughter in fact (not that her ancestry is important, just a tidbit).
Years ago in Commiefornia, some Arab was selling holster rigs at the swap meet. When I got there , a guy was walking out with 2 double rigs , silver inlaid, ,one over each shoulder that he said he paid $10 each for . I hurried to where it was going on and picked up some really nice holsters for cheap. There wasn't much left. One said Thell Reed , I believe . and there were several gun magazines about him. It seems he had a storage locker that went to auction. I see he's still alive and my age. I'm sure it's the same guy . Wonder what happened with him !!
 
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