Gunboards Forums banner
1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Diamond with Oak Clusters and Swords member
Joined
·
12,361 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
My brother-in-law and I shoot military bolt action and both purchased the Ishapore 2A1 shooter grade rifles. They are slathered in black paint but otherwise they are in great shape and only have minor repairs on the stocks. Thanks AIM!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Just got done cleaning mine up and all the metal stuff matches. 3 digit numbers inside wood channel don't match.

Was enough paint on it to do a small car though.What were they thinking? when it was put on.
If they were attacked was it going to be "oh please wait a bit while we clean the paint off these and could you stay about 300 yards as we cant adjust our sights either". Im sure that would of worked.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
222 Posts
You guys did real good on those shooter grades. The stock repairs look like quality and more interesting than ugly. I got one when they first hit the market at the higher price with good stocks, and mine is nice, and I'm happy. It would take more than a beat up, and then repaired, stock to ugly-up an already ugly-ass rifle. Great shooters though. I handload for my Raggety-Anne.
 

·
Silver Bullet member
Joined
·
1,030 Posts
Waiting...

Well, on the basis of the glowing reports of how accurate these things are supposed to be, I finally anted up and ordered one about a week ago. It just seems like one of those deals that are just too good to pass up.

Just today I got an email from AIM with my UPS tracking number, but it does not show up on the UPS site so apparently it has yet to be actually shipped.

On their website they were saying that they are backed up for a couple of weeks on getting orders out, so I'm not expecting anything very soon.

Also noticed that they are no longer offering the So. African battle ammo pack with the rifle for about $50, so don't know if I'll get the one I ordered or not. Milsurp ammo - especially popular calibers like the 7.62 NATO - does not seem to stay around long these days.

No big deal; I reload.

In the event that the stock really is toast, will a standard No. 1 Mk III (I'm always getting my Enfield No.s and "Marks" mixed up) stock set fit?
I would imagine that a bit of fitting might be required around the magazine
 

·
Silver Bullet member
Joined
·
37,978 Posts
You should be fine, they do clean up if you put some effort into them.

the only thing you have to worry about is the buttstock, it was redesigned to allow more in-line recoil. The forestock (which is where most of the repairs are) is a more likely candidate for replacement, but then you lose a lot of charcter
 

·
Silver Bullet member
Joined
·
1,030 Posts
Update:

According to the UPS tracking site, my 2A should be here tomorrow (11/9) and since it shows 2 packages, I assume that my battle pack of ammo is coming with it too.

As if I didn't have enough projects on the bench already!

I'm looking forward to giving it a workout at the range before it gets much colder and the snow starts piling up here in Maine!

There seems to be a couple of threads going on this deal, but I'll try to post pics of what I get on at least one of 'em.

What the stock looks like is of no great consequence to me.
I would only replace it if it was badly busted beyond repair.
But I have not heard of anyone getting their 2A in that condition... yet.

As best I remember from the last Enfield that I took apart, we have to take the forestock off first, as there is a square socket in the rear of it that locks on to the end of the butt stock retaining bolt so that it cannot be turned out as long as the fore stock is installed.

I usually strip a milsurp right down after it arrives not only to clean it, but to inspect it carefully for any hidden damage or defects.
 

·
Silver Bullet member
Joined
·
37,978 Posts
A

As best I remember from the last Enfield that I took apart, we have to take the forestock off first, as there is a square socket in the rear of it that locks on to the end of the butt stock retaining bolt so that it cannot be turned out as long as the fore stock is installed.

I usually strip a milsurp right down after it arrives not only to clean it, but to inspect it carefully for any hidden damage or defects.
On a standard SMLE No 1 that is the case, but with the 2A I found mine did not have the end of the bolt squared off. HOWEVER, it does have some washers and a spring that hold the bolt in the stock--and you will need a longer screw than with the standard SMLE buttstocks.

I also take mine down as far as I dare to go. BTW, Mpro7 will eat the grease *and* the paint for breakfast, with absolutely no harm to the finish. If you want to be frugal, fill a 35mm film canister with all the small parts and screws and then cover the parts with Mpro7, let sit overnight and they parts are ready to clean with an old toothbrush. Instead of dumping the stuff out, pour it over the magazine or larger parts and wrap them in plastic.

The outside wood cleans up nicely, the inside has some yucky creosote stuff that need to be scraped out.
 

·
Silver Bullet member
Joined
·
1,030 Posts
"Mpro7", Eh?

Thanks for the tip - but I've never heard of the stuff.

Sounds like something that an auto supply shop might carry(?)

I'm going downtown later on, and will check out the NAPA place.

I use a couple of things for hardcore rust - one of which is "Castle THRUST" which is a foaming penetrant, and I've used it to break down old muskets that have been rusted up tight for nigh on a century or more. The other, which I have not really experimented with all that much but seems to be pretty effective is "PB" in a spray can.
Smells horrible, but seems to do the trick.

We have to be careful with some cleaners and solvents; harsh chemicals like oven cleaner certainly will cut through the crud and cosmo, but if the parts are not washed quickly and thoroughly afterwards they will rust, as that cleaner is very caustic and corrosive.

All of us milsurp addicts seem to have our own favorite cosmo-busting potion; some like simple green, or "Ed's Red", while some gun-plumbers just use old diesel fuel.
Gasoline and paint thinner work pretty well, but the fumes can get to ya and the fire hazard is something to consider. Neither should be used indoors, IMHO.

I like to buy my WD-40 by the gallon, and decant it into recycled plastic pump spray bottles with the adjustable mist to stream nozzle.
I don't mind the smell, it's not quite as explosive as some solvents, and will soften and protect from rather than cause rust.
For detail work I have come to like Ballistol better than WD-40, but it's pretty pricey so I stick with good old WD for the more utilitarian applications.

That old standby Hoppe's #9 does a pretty good job, too.

Paint is another thing altogether though.

Paint is not unprecedented as a weapons finish by any means; the Brits back in the 18th Century painted their Tower flintlocks with brown paint - thus the "Brown Bess" musket.

In later years many weapons were "stoved", or finished with a usually black baked-on enamel similar to what was used on kitchen ranges and stoves. My Venezuelan FN-49 is finished that way.

In my experience it is not nearly as durable as parkerizing.

It seems that these 2As are sort of a fortune cookie deal; you never really know what sort of shape the original finish is in until you "unwrap" it from the black paint.
We read in here of buyers finding everything from "pretty much gone" to fairly intact parking underneath.

I'll just have to bide a wee to see what's under my layer of paint.

Little matter though; what I'm mostly concerned with is how it shoots!

Yesterday I checked the AIM site for a graphic of the 2A to share on another board, and they were no longer featured - so apparently they are sold out and mine must have been one of the last to go out the door.

They do have what they call a #6A Carbine, which is a feaux "Jungle carbine" built from a cut - down 2A. As such they are no longer C&R, and they are getting over $200 for them.

Can we get spare magazines for the 2A, and if so, where?
Are these "detachable" mags or "semi-detachable" like the FN-49 where if you take a loaded mag out of the well, all the cartridges will fall out?

I assume that these have a slotted bridge for a stripper clip - but what type of clip did they use? The U.S. "Springfield" type of the Euro "Mauser"? Do they use a special clip unique to the 2A?

I rather doubt that the regular .303 clips would work on the "rimless" NATO round.

When mine gets here, I suppose that I can rummage through my box of assorted clips and see if anything fits both round (not a problem) and the rifle (might be!).
 

·
Silver Bullet member
Joined
·
37,978 Posts
Mpro7 is a high-end gun cleaning product. Odorless, non-toxic, and will clean/degrease and eat British Commonwealth stoving like nobody's business!

However, its very expensive (thats why I use its poorer sister, Orange Blast, which you can find at Wal-Mart, but it does not work on stoving very well)

http://www.mp7.com/ (also available through Brownells)
 

·
Silver Bullet member
Joined
·
1,030 Posts
Uncle Jaque's 2A is On Deck!

At about 1425 hrs. I heard the doorbell go off, and there at our front door stood a man in a brown outfit with a long brown cardboard box under his arm.

About a third of the way up from one end was the telltale hole punched through the side of the box - a sure sign that there is a bolt action rifle inside!

Along with the long thing was a smaller rectangular box which is my South African battle pack of 140 rounds of 7.62 X 51mm FMJ.
I'll probably keep it sealed to use in an emergency, perhaps.

Like a kid with a new toy and nearly prancing with delight (you know the feeling, don't ya!?) I laid an old blanket over the coffee table and opened one end of the box.

Crumpled up paper - good; I was hoping for no LWTs. Those things are a pain! Uncrumpled the paper and spread it out over the blanket.

Finally, there was the distinctive "bulldog" nosecap and bayonet lug of the No. 1 Mk. III SMLE - only this one has the angular features distinctive of the Indian 2A.

Once we got enough wadded up paper clear, out came a rifle all mummified in plastic bubble-wrap.



An aluminum butt plate stuck out at one end, and a black painted nosecap out the other.

Digging out the jackknife, we made short work of the brown plastic tape that bound the mummy in it's windings and soon had a somewhat grimy but solid and intact rifle laid out on the table:



Note the tell-tale hole in the side of the box above the rifle.
Bet you've seen your share of 'em if you're a Dealer or CrFFLer!

My first impression was "WOW!; Not bad!!!"

Once again, AIM comes through with another "Better than expected" collectible!

Only the metalwork was coated with the tar-like black paint which appears to have been applied while the rifle was all together, and the dark chestnut colored, apparently walnut stock is in great shape with only a few minor dings as are to be expected with just about any milsurp rifle.

The only apparent flaws are a chip out of the trailing edge of the handguard between a cross splice repair about half way between the receiver and the rear sight,



and a rather oddly shaped repair to both the heel and toe of the butt stock:



Is this the normal shape for these rifle's buttstocks, or can I feel free to touch it up with a file a bit? It really looks weird!


Note the serial no. on the rear of the bolt handle. Even the magazine has a matching ser. no. on the rear spine. As far as I can tell, everything matches.
Not bad for a hundred buck rifle, I'd say!

Also, the slots on several of the screw heads are fairly chewed up.
I wonder how many parts are interchangeable with the No. 1 Mk. III?

I took it down cellar and ran a brush through it, and followed with a cotton flannel patch.

My Word!!!; that bore looks nigh on CHERRY!

And although all of the bolt action Enfields that I've tinkered with have left hand twist rifling, this one sure enough an' b'gorrah spins to the right.

Even my US Model 1917 which was a modification of a design that Remington, Eddystone and Winchester were making for the British Empire as the P-14 before America got into WW-I has LHT rifling.

Lefty rifling has a marvelous way of unscrewing your tips from the end of your cleaning rod about halfway up the barrel in short order.

Even before cleaning, the trigger is short and crisp and the bolt operates with the speed and confidence that few other bolt rifles besides the Enfield can match.

The boxy steel magazine holds 12 rounds, even when the magazine is detached from the rifle. According the the tag that came tied to the trigger guard, Numrich Arms has spares for about $33 each. I might have to pick at least one up.



I tried dismounting the mag by depressing the little button on the bottom of the floor plate and pushing forward - but it won't budge.

The "PB solvent in a spray can stinks like DDT; I still remember smelling that nasty stuff from when I was a kid and my Dad used a tin pump sprayer to knock off the wasps in the outhouse and the bats in the barn. That could be why I grew up to be like I am now...



I squirted a little of it on some of the smaller parts and covered them in a recycled cream cheese tub. The PB can says it will eat through a plastic cup, so I guess I'd better check it from time to time.



Note my home made brass firing pin spanner with the wooden handle.

It works a lot better after one remembers to remove the little lock screw in the rear of the striker head...

"Duh!"

It has been a while.

I've sprayed the whole rifle with noxious solvents, and waiting for them to work in a little.

Just in the hour or so I was tinkering on it, some of the paint did soften up quite a bit and I found that it could be scraped off pretty easily with a brass scraper and finished up with #00 steel wool.

What lies underneath seems to be a rather nice plumb gray patina, although I found a couple of places where there seems to be light surface rusting under the paint.

A wire wheel on the bench grinder would make short work of that paint, but it's awfully easy to over-do it that way.

I've been invited to go shooting with a bunch of the guys Sunday afternoon, and hope that I can get the 2A up and running by then.







In the meantime it will need to be detail stripped and thoroughly cleaned.

If we get some decent sunlight I'll try to get some better pictures to post.
 

·
Silver Bullet member
Joined
·
1,030 Posts
Restoration Update

After a lot of cleaning, tonight I finally put the 2A back together.

......


I tried to save the gray-brown patina under the black paint, but as can be seen in these photos I went down to the white on some of the corners.

.....


It ain't all that pretty, but it's a lot better than it was when it arrived!

It seems that I have one screw left over after I got the rifle all the way back together;

...............


I looked at the parts diagram in my NRA "Shoulder Arms Assembly" but darned if I can find where it goes.
It looks quite a bit like the screw that holds the front of the floor plate on to the receiver through the forward stock, only the shank is a little longer. It seems to have the same threads.

Any suggestions before I go shooting this thing?

..................


A lot of the screws have pretty badly chewed up heads and slots.
Is that fairly common with this batch?

Here are some of the parts before or during cleaning:

...........


Butt Stock socket and Bolt Head retaining clip - partially cleaned up.

.............


Bolt head retaining spring, Trigger Actuator and Spring, screw etc. all covered with mung.

..............


Semi Stripped Receiver showing wrist socket markings.

...


Right Side Receiver with Trigger Parts. The brass scraper is used to scrape paint and hardened grease / dirt off of surfaces.

On the right side of the butt stock there is a circle with the letters "SA" with a broad arrow between them:



Does anyone know the significance of this mark?
 

·
Gold Bullet member
Joined
·
760 Posts
It seems that I have one screw left over after I got the rifle all the way back together;

...............


I looked at the parts diagram in my NRA "Shoulder Arms Assembly" but darned if I can find where it goes.
It looks quite a bit like the screw that holds the front of the floor plate on to the receiver through the forward stock, only the shank is a little longer. It seems to have the same threads.

On the right side of the butt stock there is a circle with the letters "SA" with a broad arrow between them:



Does anyone know the significance of this mark?
1; The screw isthe barrel retaing screw halway down barrel on underside of forearm.
2; S /|\A with I below is post '47 Indian Army marking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
380 Posts
Most of the screws on mine are pretty chewed up. I don't think the indian armorer knows what a screw driver is, probably used a butter knife. You extractor spring will probably break, their known to fail on these. Mine didn't even make it to the range before I was placing an order with Numrich. The only other issue I've had wsa ladt week my bolt won't cock when working the action. I have to push the trigger forward, and pull back on the striker. I haven't dissassembled it to see what the issue is yet.
 

·
Silver Bullet member
Joined
·
1,030 Posts
One "Mystery" Down....

Thanks for the tip - now the "mystery" is solved!

That short stout little coil spring does indeed seem to be in there - it's one of the things that I decided not to take out & better left alone after cleaning as much as I could get to with it in place. A .22 bore brush did a pretty good job scouring between the coils.

I had been wondering where the heck that little screw that goes under the lower rear tang of the nose cap went; small parts are not hard to lose when cleaning a bucket of parts, and when I couldn't find it I assumed that's what I did.

So I managed to find a suitable pan head screw with the right threads and length in my extensive coffee-can collection to replace it.
All well and good, except for my "mystery screw".

Well; turns out that I'd switched out my nose cap screw with the inner band screw - the threads and overall length seem to be generally compatible. After I removed the nosecap screw from the inner band hole, I noticed that it is quite a bit longer than my replacement.
But now they are back into their proper stations, and all seems to be well.

...Well... almost.

Before I put the receiver back into the stock my safety was doing some weird things like dropping the striker to the half cock when I put it on. Now that It's back together, alas; it's still being weird.

With the striker cocked, when the trigger is pulled, sometimes it makes a little "clunk" and the trigger sort of sticks back.
Sometimes the striker drops to half cock and the safety lever jumps forward about 20 degrees. The bolt is locked and pulling the trigger will not drop the striker any further - but disengaging the safety (lever forward) will!

I don't know whether dropping from the half cock on a live round would suffice to set it off, but I would not care to chance it.

Now I had the devil's own time replacing the safety; that little dogleg interruptor or whatever it's called has to be started exactly right onto the spiral threads of the safety hub, or it simply won't do.
After several false starts in which I thought I had it lined up pretty much as it was in the book, I finally got it back in so it at least seemed to work - but might I have been off by a thread to allow the lever to move normally while still causing this problem?

We might have to have another couple of goes at it and see if we can't work it out. I'm becoming less enarmoured with the Enfield safety system all the time now!

I pretty much know how to tweak and tune a Mauser safety and trigger, but this system is a whole lot different, ain't it?

My forward stock is in really good shape - just cleaned it with "Go-Jo" hand cleaner (would not use on a really smooth or polished surface - at least not on wood) and regular soap & water (a LOT of brown filth came off) and buffed it lightly with some 0000 steel wool, dried, then rubbed in a little BLO / Tung oil blend for a nice rich matte "military" finish.
It looks as if the Indian Armorer sanded it with a brick - but that's pretty much the look we're sticking with.
Don't want to go sanding it down any further.

The white painted "22" on the left side of the stock was carefully preserved, as I like to keep as many of the original markings on a milsurp as I can. I assume that it's some sort of rack or soldier number. Under the paint I discovered quite a few markings, but nothing that looks like a unit designator.

The odd bulbous pinned wooden patches on the heel and toe of the buttstock have been shaped down to contour though; those were really ugly!

Are some parts from the British No. 1 Mk. III interchangeable with the 2A? I have a feeling that the extractor spring probably isn't, but I could use a rear handguard. This one is pretty much disintegrating.
Replacing some of the screws with ones that had some slot left might be a nice touch, too.

Getting all of that black paint off and out of the rear sight assembly certainly was a challenge. What a fine rear sight notch that thing has!
Sure is a challenge for my aging bespectacled eyes.
I would not rate them very highly as "combat" sights at all.

Gee; I wonder why Ishapore never thought to make these rifles up in the No. 4 Mk.I configuration? The sights are a whole lot better IMHO, and being able to adjust for windage without the use of a hammer is a nice touch.

The old No. 1 was not only obsolete, but downright antiquated by the mid 1960s, wasn't it?

Oh; I dug out the headspace gauges and checked that chamber before we hie off to the range.

At first, I couldn't get the bolt to close on any of them.
Then I had an epiphany; the EXTRACTOR wasn't snapping over the "rim" like a Mauser will (or at least might) and was jamming.
Good thing I didn't bust that little spring right there!

Once I started loading the gauges into the magazine and letting the bolt head pick them up properly, the bolt closed on the Forstner "GO" without any argument at all.

Ditto with the "NO-GO"

And alas; " " = "FIELD"!

Do these Ishapores use different sized bolt heads like the Brits did to adjust HS? If so, does Numerich have them, and has anyone with a 2A had to replace theirs?

I get the impression that these .308s, much like the older .303s, tend to run a little towards the "generous" size in chamber dimensions.
At least this one certainly seems to run in that direction.

Will probably set aside casings dedicated exclusively to this rifle and neck size to fit after the first firing to "fire-form" them to fit the obviously oversized chamber.

If it's really bad and I can't find a longer bolt head, I could always trim and resize M2 '06 casings into something like a 7.62 X 52 and-a-half mm specially for this rig. It won't be an issue for accidentally feeding such specialty rounds into any of my other .308s; they simply won't fit.

Hopefully we'll get a decent day next week and see how it shoots.

Thanks again - and a happy Thanksgiving to all!
 

·
Silver Bullet member
Joined
·
1,030 Posts
Time to Roll Up the Sleeves...

...I don't think the indian armorer knows what a screw driver is, probably used a butter knife.
....Or a rusty bayonet.

Your extractor spring will probably break, their known to fail on these.
Oh; Great!

last week my bolt won't cock when working the action. I have to push the trigger forward, and pull back on the striker. I haven't disassembled it to see what the issue is yet.
If you havn't had it apart yet, your problem may well be crud - related. See my pictures of some of the parts pre-cleaning.
I mean this gunk isn't like your regular cosmo; it's more like asphalt.
How anything works at all before scouring that kugga out of there is a mystery to me.

So roll up yer sleeves, wear your raggedyest old clothes, get some good solvent and scrub brushes / brass or aluminum scrapers etc. and have a ball!

Was in Wal-Mart a couple of days ago and saw a neat rig made for "detailing" a car; it's like an oversized electric toothbrush with a rotary head, bristles and all. Ten bucks. For another $10 they will sell you a set of a half dozen or so interchangeable heads of various configurations. Looks like just the thing for cosmo-cleansing.
Wish I'd seen it before I got most of this 2A gludged out!
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top