[swedeadmirer]

I'd like to ask the target shooters what they believe is an acceptable grouping at 500m/yds? - with target sights , heavy barrel & accurised bedding
I would have thought that off a rest with match ammo on a good day a 10 shot / 10 inch group would be possible or is 15 inches more reasonable?

 

[Thunderbox]

What rifle?

A standard .303" SRb No4 should be able to do a ten inch group @ 500 yds easily, using decent cordite ammo - the rifle itself might do about five or six inches from a machine rest. You'd still have to be a good target shot to actually get 10 rounds into a group without dropping one or two!

A 7.62mm No4 (Envoy, L39, Enforcer, L42, etc) should do slightly better, depending upon the type of ammo - possibly four or five inches from a machine rest.

 

[swedeadmirer]

I've never had any l/e do better than 2 moa but sighting can be a big source of error as we're not talking of using a bench rest scope or even front tunnel sights & rings.
As for the rifle I'm not sure what difference it makes - ie is an accurised Lithgow in good condition any better or worse than an accurised no.4 in good condition??

 

[para]

What rifle?

A standard .303" SRb No4 should be able to do a ten inch group @ 500 yds easily, using decent cordite ammo - the rifle itself might do about five or six inches from a machine rest. You'd still have to be a good target shot to actually get 10 rounds into a group without dropping one or two!

A 7.62mm No4 (Envoy, L39, Enforcer, L42, etc) should do slightly better, depending upon the type of ammo - possibly four or five inches from a machine rest.

10 inches @ 500= 2MOA @ 100 so that would fall into swedes expectations.
Jim Sweet said in his book that if you got a rifle that shot 1 1/2 inches at 100 yds, then it's a match winner.
I think realistically the 2 to 2.5 inch @ 100 is more realistic and in my experience difficult to maintain..
No4 probably easier to achieve the accuracy than No1 Mk3*'s.
cheers
Ned

 

[Fenn]

I'd like to ask the target shooters what they believe is an acceptable grouping at 500m/yds? - with target sights , heavy barrel & accurised bedding
I would have thought that off a rest with match ammo on a good day a 10 shot / 10 inch group would be possible or is 15 inches more reasonable?

Swedeadmirer,
holding a 10" group at 500 is very acceptable shooting from prone with sling.
to identify the accuracy of your rifle you need to come back to basics and identify it's capability at 100yard / meters. there are to many other contributing factors at 500.


My No4 with standard sights would hold close to 10” groups at 500 if there was perfect conditions.

 

[Fenn]

10 inches @ 500= 2MOA @ 100 so that would fall into swedes expectations.
Jim Sweet said in his book that if you got a rifle that shot 1 1/2 inches at 100 yds, then it's a match winner.
I think realistically the 2 to 2.5 inch @ 100 is more realistic and in my experience difficult to maintain..
No4 probably easier to achieve the accuracy than No1 Mk3*'s.
cheers
Ned

PARA,
I would have to agree 100% with the group sizing and Jim Sweets words.
I'm not trying to big note but these are the groups I got while doing load development from prone no rest at 100m.
I used a rest later once I got a idea of what would work and to sight it in correctly.
first worked out a powder load. 44gn of ADI 2209 seemed to work alright and that is what become my pet load. and then later on I compared Highland to Hornady projectiles. (yes I know ruff as guts load development but there is a little but more to it then I have stated) anyway I shot a 400yard match with it the week end after I did the initial load development and took it out. needles to say the load hasn't changed.
In this case the rifle is fitted with standard sights and has previously had the barrel floated.
oh it is a No4 long branch with a 2 grove barrel. I do have a No1 and it shots as good but due to the shorter sight radius (standard sights) I don't use it as much for the longer distance stuff.

 

[swedeadmirer]

Fenn
How do figure its ok to go 2gn over the max ADI reccomend?(for a 174 gn bullet?) - was 44gn the max a few yrs ago?

 

[Fenn]

Fenn
How do figure its ok to go 2gn over the max ADI reccomend?(for a 174 gn bullet?) - was 44gn the max a few yrs ago?

Crap!! Woops I mean 2209 - 2209! (super bad typo) sorry and good pick up swedeadmirer

 

[milprileb]

Thanks to all the Aussies for this thread. Clearly, some folks are shooting seriously with Lee Enfields.

You guys are role models for me !!!

 

[para]

Crap!! Woops I mean 2209 - 2209! (super bad typo) sorry and good pick up swedeadmirer

i use 46.5 of 2209,
tried 2208, 2206H and they never came close .
less severe recoil, and the closest i have come to replicating Mk7 specs as to muzzle velocity,
With 174 gn sierras it was just 30 fps less than Mk7.
It produced the best accurate loads.
I think the load closest to Mk7 is the only way to go.
After all they didn't change the ammo spec for what?50-60 years?
but they did change the rifles it was used in.
Still very hard to better 2 MOA with a proper group of 5 Rds!!
Sorry Fenn had to drop that one in, I have never used 3 rds as a standard for grouping capacity, 5 just gives you the chance to muck it up a bit more and I think gives a truer account of grouping capacity. I think it has always been the standard.
I don't know how many times i have fired 3 and they where under 1 inch, then fired 2 more thinking I did everything the same , only to find the group expand out to 2 or more inches.
After all you can only tune something to the max then there is no more to tune!!!
Cheers
Ned

 

[TonyE]

I agree with Thunderbox with regard to the expected accuracy of an S.R.(b) regulated No.4.

Back in the days when my eyes worked and we still used those rifles as the standard target rifles I shot a number of 500 Yard "poss" scores. I think the NRA 500 yard .303 target had a 2moa bull then.

Regards
TonyE

 

[Fenn]

i use 46.5 of 2209,
tried 2208, 2206H and they never came close .
less severe recoil, and the closest i have come to replicating Mk7 specs as to muzzle velocity,
With 174 gn sierras it was just 30 fps less than Mk7.
It produced the best accurate loads.
I think the load closest to Mk7 is the only way to go.
After all they didn't change the ammo spec for what?50-60 years?
but they did change the rifles it was used in.
Still very hard to better 2 MOA with a proper group of 5 Rds!!
Sorry Fenn had to drop that one in, I have never used 3 rds as a standard for grouping capacity, 5 just gives you the chance to muck it up a bit more and I think gives a truer account of grouping capacity. I think it has always been the standard.
I don't know how many times i have fired 3 and they where under 1 inch, then fired 2 more thinking I did everything the same , only to find the group expand out to 2 or more inches.
After all you can only tune something to the max then there is no more to tune!!!
Cheers
Ned

Para,
Your right in regards to the 5 round groups.
I tell you what, I'm heading out west in a few days to my mates place who has his own 300m range. (sorry Swedeadmirer it's not 500 - however I'll see what I can do.)
If all goes well I'll try a couple of things and try working up to that load that para has stated.
I'll record my results and post back here.

 

[John Sukey In Memoriam]

Of course a lot of the group size is determined on what is to the rear of the buttplate.

 

[Osage]

Geez. I was worried about 2" groups on my Swede. Maybe that's OK..
Got brass, dies and bullets arriving tomorrow. Just need to run my gong out a couple hundred more yards.

 

[para]

Of course a lot of the group size is determined on what is to the rear of the buttplate.

the nut behind the butt can be blamed for many a poor group!!!!

Cheers
Ned

 

[muffett.2008]

So that explains your competition scores Ned?

 

[swedeadmirer]

2" from a swede M96 - eyes wide shut?

Geez. I was worried about 2" groups on my Swede. Maybe that's OK..
Got brass, dies and bullets arriving tomorrow. Just need to run my gong out a couple hundred more yards.

 

[Osage]

Assumed the rifle could do better. May be the nut behind the butt.

 

[para]

So that explains your competition scores Ned?

yeah thats my excuse,
gotta have one or two upya sleeve,
whats yours?
cheers
Ned