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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Don't you love it that one can always discover something new on the board? :)

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Douglas I. Kerley
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 9:45:14 PM
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HI; Just got 10 of these. Any idea of value? Is there any interest? Doug

http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Douglas I. Kerley/2006117215958_Pistolbandoleer.jpg
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Douglas I. Kerley
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 10:02:02 PM
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Here's another PIC. Cart. loops inside.

http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Douglas I. Kerley/200611722144_Pistolbandoleerpocket.jpg
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25.11 KBDoug



Arditi
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 10:06:24 PM
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Where in the world did you get those? I have two of the 2 pocket carcano ones, but not the 3 pocket model you have there. They look mint as well. I'll take one if they are reasonable. Arditi



Douglas I. Kerley
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 10:13:05 PM
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HI; I've got no idea what the heck they are for, when made, what is "reasonable", just no idea. Pistol cart. is about all I can figure. Doug



Jim Petrie
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 12:04:48 AM
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Doug,
I would be interested in one too, if you decide on a price, let me know.
Thanks
Jim Petrie
[email protected]



DocAV
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 01:50:27 AM
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Even though of the standard grey leather pattern, they look like Carabinieri Bandoleers for M1 Carbine (on issue after WWII) Each pocket should hold one or two stripper clips, hence the tab to remove the clip .

They look brand new in the photo, and as the Carabinieri were still using M1 carbines (called "Carabina Winchester) for Mounted patrols in the heavy Woodlands, as well as Park patrols in the bigger cities, these must be fairly recent surplus (the M1 Carbine went out of service in the 1990s, AFAIK.) There is also a ceremonial version in Brown leather ( for Horse Mounted Park Units in Summer).

An interesting Post war variation of an 1891 design.



Douglas I. Kerley
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 02:00:16 AM
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HI; A fountain of knowledge, as always. Thanks Doug



2520wcf
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 09:15:06 AM
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When hiking in Sicily and Calabria, I've run into forestry police patrols (sometimes with a couple of Carabinieri) who were hunting poachers or timber thieves. Doc's right, they always refer to M-1 Carbines as "Winchesters." Don't recall the bandoleers; these guys were on foot or in Italian jeeps.



francesco
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 1:18:18 PM
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Originally posted by DocAV
Even though of the standard grey leather pattern, they look like Carabinieri Bandoleers for M1 Carbine (on issue after WWII) Each pocket should hold one or two stripper clips, hence the tab to remove the clip
Dear Doc,
I can ensure you that Carabinieri did not issued these bandoleers after WWII :)
I think that these are for Beretta 1934 model 8 rounds cartdiges pack
In every case, interesting and rare
Best regards
Francesco


Douglas I. Kerley
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 2:54:09 PM
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HI; Do you have any definitive identification resource you could copy here? Doug



rra227
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 4:45:40 PM
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I'd be interested also. Rich A.



Hambone
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 4:54:08 PM
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Doug they are for the revolver / pistol. That is the reason for the ring at the end, to attach a revolver holster with a special clip / arrangement. They were designed for the Bodeo revolver. That is the purpose for the buckle straps on the end of the revolver holster, to attach to that ring.
They are not especially rare, but not found at Walmart either As you are going to put them on ebay, please let us know what the maximum value you get is.



DocAV
Posted - 01/25/2006 : 12:27:35 AM
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Dear Hambone, the Special Ring for holding the Glisenti and Bodeo revolvers was fitted to ALL "Cavalry" type bandoleers.
Also, the Beretta M934 Pistol Ammo was packed is SEVEN Round packets, NOT 8 as mentioned by someone above.
Pistol issue was accompanied by usually One Packet extra of ammo, besides the full cylinder or magazine. Definitely NOT a full bandoleer of ammo ( with three pockets, that would make about 42 rounds of beretta ammo, or 36 rounds of Revolver ammo, assuming the appropriately structured "slab" packets. So I disagree that these were "Pistol bandoleers" as Opposed to "Carbine bandoleers".

Also the fact that these bandoleers are Brand new condition, makes them more likely to be Post-war, and whilst they may NOT have been issued specifically to the Carabinieri Post-war, they Were obviously made for one or other of the Italian Military or para-Military services which had "Winchesters" on issue.

When I was in Italy (1974-1983), the two-pocket bandoleer and M1891 or M1891/38 Cavalry carbine was still standard issue to a whole host of para-Militaries, from Forestry Guards, thru Prison Guards, Finance Guards and some Rural Carabinieri. The M1 carbine was on issue to City Mounted Carabinieri patrols, and Southern Italy based Anti-Bandit (fill in name of whatever Regional "mafia" grouping) Squads, usually patrolling on Horseback in very rough mountain and forest areas of southern Italy and Sicily and Sardinia.
The City Horse patrols (Large Public Parks in Milan and Rome) used Brown or Black leather accoutrements (Slings, Bandoleers, handcuff Pouches, harness)according to season and uniform (brown in summer, black in winter and ceremonial), the "Field Use" equipment would have been in the traditional "Grey-green" Italian Field equipment colour.



2520wcf
Posted - 01/26/2006 : 09:21:56 AM
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Doc, that's very interesting "recent history"! I'm imagining a shootout between a guard with a '91 Carbine and a bad guy with a lupara (sp?). As poorly as I can shoot my carbine, I'd put my money on the scattergun....but maybe the Italian cops practiced a lot! The only real shootout of this type I've heard about directly (was on the trail when they evacuated a couple of casualties) was between a mixed patrol of forestry police and Carabinieri and some professional poachers in central Calabria. "Winchesters" and Beretta M12s against shotguns. One wounded on either side; bad guys escaped except for one poor fellow who caught a 9mm in the belly. One cop hit in the head by a buckshot but not badly wounded (his buddies were kidding him about being a hard-headed Kraut from Venezia Giulia). Sorry about my spelling of Italian; I have a hard enough time with American...



francesco
Italy
Posted - 01/26/2006 : 11:49:07 AM
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Also, the Beretta M934 Pistol Ammo was packed is SEVEN Round packets, NOT 8 as mentioned by someone above.
My error, sorry :)

Pistol issue was accompanied by usually One Packet extra of ammo, besides the full cylinder or magazine.

Beretta 1934 pistol was carried with two magazines, one in the gun and the other in a pocket of the holster.

I enlisted me in Carabinieri corp in the 1981 and have not seen in use bandoolers like these with M1 carbine, also in other military or civil italian services.
About sostitution of 91/38 moschetto with "new" M1 carbine, this was made in 1976.
M1 carbine were issued with one "banana" magazine or two 15 rounds magazines, one in the rifle and the other in the particular pocket of white bandooler, issued by carabinieri when are on duty.



Hambone
Posted - 01/27/2006 : 7:18:38 PM
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I'm interested to see what he gets for them on epay. Woodhaven has had unissued condition two pocket ones for $29.95 for about 20 years (though they may have been $19.95 ten years ago). Yep Doc, I'm aware that the terminal ring is on all cavalry bandoleers, I was letting him know what it was for on this one. However, I do believe this particular three pocket bandoleer first came out specifically for the Bodeo revolver back at the turn of the 20th century and has been in use since that time.



Ronin48
Posted - 01/28/2006 : 7:51:25 PM
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BEFORE YOU BUY ANYTHING FROM MR KERLEY YOU WOULD DO WELL TO CHECK THE JAPANESE FORUM (HIS RECENT POST AND MEMBER COMMENTS CONCERNING HIS HONESTY) AND CHECK THE "DEALERS/SELLERS" FEEDBACK BOARD. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF NEGATIVE POSTS CONCERNING HIS TIMELENESS IN SHIPPING, IF THE ORDERED ITEM IS SHIPPED AT ALL, REFUNDS, ETC. I do not have a bone to pick with him, but the only way I'd do business with Doug is face-to-face with the money in one hand, my hand on the purchased item. "A word to the wise is sufficient!"



Lanceri Novara 5
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 4:22:03 PM
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Dear Sirs
The bandolear with three pouch is weared by tank crew. In every pocket was stored a carton box containing seven 9 mm corto round for Beretta M34 pistol. It's an item of wartime and ins't a M1 holster. By the way in the years that carabinieri carried baboliers they was armed with carbine Carcano M91 cal 6,35 cavalry type. The M1 carbine was issued to carabinieri vary late, in '70-'80 and I never saw bandolier for M1 magazine.
My best regards
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jacklancer



Douglas I. Kerley
Posted - 02/07/2006 : 6:55:30 PM
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HI; I finally got around to taking a picture or two. Doug

http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Douglas I. Kerley/20062718556_BerettaCavPouchopen.jpg
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Douglas I. Kerley
Posted - 02/07/2006 : 7:00:05 PM
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HI; Looks like others but would think that they are for the 7 round Beretta ammo box or a 6 round revolver box. Got any laying around? I would love to get one of each. I'll get some on Ebay today. Doug

http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Douglas I. Kerley/200627185933_BerettaCavPouch.jpg
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Douglas I. Kerley
Posted - 02/07/2006 : 7:02:24 PM
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HI; The cloth tab pulls the box out. Doug

http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Douglas I. Kerley/2006271924_BerettaCavPouchlatch.jpg
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DocAV
Posted - 02/09/2006 : 5:42:23 PM
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I stand CORRECTED regarding the M1 Carbine Use of the three Pocket Bandoleer.
Testing with M1 Carbine Strippers have proved conclusively that they Do NOT FIT (Thanks Doug).
The Italian Posting regarding Tank Crews is the Correct one (have some Photos of Tank crews with this type of bandoleer, just located yesterday).
Obviously these bandos have been sitting in a Warehouse in Italy since WW II, being so New and tied in Ten Piece Bundles.

With the current reduction of the Italian Armed Forces from a Conscript Army to a Full-time, career, Volunteer Army, More "old Stock" will be disposed of (a Lot is simply Scrapped for its metal content (Aluminium mess gear, Water Bottles, etc))

All We need Now is a Couple of L13/40 Tankettes and appropriate Breda Guns and uniforms....



Douglas I. Kerley
Posted - 02/09/2006 : 6:17:23 PM
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Hi; Had a look at what the bundles were tied up with and low and behold it was German army WW2 cammo cloth. I picked them up in Baveria so that kind of makes sense. The Volkssturm used all sorts of Italian stuff. From what I hear from Italy these are rather difficult to find. I put three on Ebay here and three on Ebay in Italy hoping to find the Beretta holster that goes with them. It will be interesting to see if they go and or if I can get a good trade out of them. There is a box of Bodeo ammo on Ebay in Italy at the moment. The guy will not ship here. He has only one box. I would love to get three WW2 boxes each of the Beretta 9mm Corto and Bodeo 10.35mm. It may be a while. I won't hold my breath. Doug



Lanceri Novara 5
Italy
Posted - 02/11/2006 : 07:01:46 AM
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Goodmorning everyone

I was looking in my folder to find the pic of tank crew with the three pockets bandolier with the pistol holster attached. I find it and i post you.
My best regards

http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/lanceri novara 5/2006211719_carristi m34.jpg
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03man
Posted - 02/11/2006 : 08:23:42 AM
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Hi guys,
at least one of these made it to auction, $100 starting bid. Just below it in the search is the same 3 pocket bandoleer with the M1934 holster attached for $22.50 to start. We will see what they are worth I guess.



SlimTim
Posted - 02/11/2006 : 09:02:59 AM
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It's a dutch auction, he's got 3 on there. Also 3 on Italian ebay, where he lists them for 75 Euros each, why cheaper there?

Also he states " I offer a ten day inspection and return for any reason. " Jeez, if you guys who've had trouble with Doug only knew of his policy, everything would have been A-OK!

Or not.



Douglas I. Kerley
Posted - 02/15/2006 : 11:35:12 AM
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HI; I got the holster and bandoleer for a $100 total. I'm real happy. It was listed on Ebay in the Militaria/Other Militaria area kind of wirdly. The guy sold a Beretta 1915 holster there cheap also reciently. I sure can use one of those. There sure is a bunch of stuff there. Mostly junk to me but what the heck. Seems like it is worth it to check out these off mainstream areas. Not well traveled. Now I've been tasked with keeping an eye out there. I've seen this 34 Beretta holster go for over a hundred on Militaria/WW2/Italian. Bandoleer must be worthless. I have never put anything on Italian Ebay before. The Euro thing got me goofed up. Bumped up the price to Euro 85 to come close to the $100 I wanted here. We'll see how this goes. Cheap advertizing anyway. Doug



03man
Posted - 02/15/2006 : 9:18:29 PM
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I guess if you can't sell them, buy the competition!

Maybe "cheap" is the market price? Off the mainstream??? ebay is off the mainstream, yea.



Hambone
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 1:33:33 PM
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He's cornering the market on Italian bandoleers. What's with the Gunboard complaints Doug?



Douglas I. Kerley
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 2:56:33 PM
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Hi; Now I just need a case of Italian 9mm Corto in the seven round packets. Might be a while for that one. Got the holster cheap on Ebay. Have lots of the pistols. Half of the bandoleers are gone in trades now. I would be happy to send one to anyone offering an interesting trade.

Complaints. Humm. I was late delivering several items. I offered refunds refused. I would be happy to buy anything I sold back for what I sold them for and had no takers. Just complainers. What was amusing is that many that had no business with me, problems or dealings of any kind chimed in. And then I just thought "hell with this" and droped out for a bit.

I thought I might post the bandoleers here as I had never seen them other than in pictures and books. Got some interesting feedback. Got some disinformation, guesses and BS. Got some more complaints as well. I hope it all was interesting and educational for everyone. Learning is what it is all about. I really got into the European market. Lots of fun. Lots of different stuff as well.

I made a decision early on not to hide behind some fake name. I stand behind my own name here and elsewhere in life. Douglas I. Kerley



Douglas I. Kerley
Posted - 03/22/2006 : 10:27:24 AM
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HI; Relisted the bandoleers I have left for $75ea. I got several bandoleers online from the US which were dyed black (just to get the gray-green holsters). Italian tankers wore a black leather double breasted 3/4 length car coat and black leather crash helmet and used these bandoleers. Maybe they dyed them to go with their uniforms?

By the way, I've seen several mint tanker helmets on line. One dated 1959. I wonder how late they used them? These look like the WW2 type. Might like to pick one up. Doug
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Standard Bandoleer with Two Pockets

pzkfw1945
Posted - 06/21/2006 : 10:03:34 PM
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Hey folks a buddy of mine sent me this picture of what he thinks are WWI Italian ammo pouches. I've had a long time subtle interrest in italian military arms but never seen this. Are these hard to find or have i been walking around with my eyes closed See the pic.

http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/pzkfw1945/20066212232_pix626124281.jpg
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DocAV
Posted - 06/22/2006 : 03:44:04 AM
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M1891 Cavalry Carbine Bandoleer, used by Carabinieri (Militarised Police), Cavalry, and anybody else using the carbine in a mounted fashion (Bicycle, or Motorbike);

The pattern changes slightly, but the general design and colour remained the same from about 1912 to 1945, ie, "Grigio-verde" ( grey-green, or Olive colour), made of rough leather, with the outer surface smoothed and coloured; The pentagonal buckle on the lower end is for attaching the "hangers" of the revolver holster, and there is also a small slotted strap on the lower pouch closure strap to " button " the bandoleer to the middle Tunic Button, to stop it from moving whilst riding.

The Two Pouch (Carbine) bando held four clips of Carcano ammo (24 rounds); A similar bandoleer, but with three smaller Pouches, was issued to Armoured vehicle drivers, for Pistol ammo ( 7 round packets of Beretta M34 ammo, or six/twelve round packets of revolver ammo.

The Belt underneath, for what its worth, looks like a Bubbafied pattern 37 British web belt (the Buckles are certainly P37), but it is not of a design I am familiar with. Maybe some better detailed photos might clear up the mystery. Italy did use a lot of P37 equipment post WW II., and the Italian Navy used Mills Woven Web equipment from 1907 to the 1960s.
 
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